ex-SEAL chases dog's killers

gkainz

gkainz

Final Approach
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Greg Kainz
I read the story elsewhere.

The part I like is when the thugs tried to tell Luttrell that they were going to come back and get him, and he didn't know who he was messing with...his reply was to ask the Texas Ranger to explain matters to the thugs. I suspect he did, in great detail.
 
I did indeed see that. When I first read it, I was a little concerned - google "Sifrit, Ocean City, Maryland" and see what pops up (knew the girl). But, I've since completely changed my mind - remembering: 1) that I've participated in what most people would deem vigilante justice before (and then had the police ask if I was "narcotics and vice" - do I look like someone who would try to pick up hookers and blow undercover? Rude!); and 2) remembering that in high school and later, I carried a breaker bar in the jeep just in case I ever ran across one of the people who liked to break puppies'/kittens' legs or cut off their tails and then dump them out by the farm...they made great pets.

So, as far as I'm concerned, good. It was in Texas, right?
 
Some people just need to be killed, as they have no place in society. Murderers, rapists, child molesters, and animal abusers all fall into that category.

No issues by me. He did everything right. If someone shot my dog, I'd behave similarly.

One edit: Calling him an "ex-SEAL" I don't believe is correct. Retired, perhaps, but clearly he still is one.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Some people just need to be killed, as they have no place in society. Murderers, rapists, child molesters, and animal abusers all fall into that category.

No issues by me. He did everything right. If someone shot my dog, I'd behave similarly.

One edit: Calling him an "ex-SEAL" I don't believe is correct. Retired, perhaps, but clearly he still is one.
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+1000000000000000000000000000000
 
I agree completely on the ex- and publically retract that. I thought that same thing when I read the headlines and ended up typing it anyway-doh! ... definitely not ex-SEAL; just not active duty.
 
For the life of me, I just can't understand while anybody is cruel to animals. Especially someone's pet. :mad3:

I'll have to read his book.
 
Anthony said:
For the life of me, I just can't understand while anybody is cruel to animals. Especially someone's pet. :mad3:

I'll have to read his book.
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Constantly astonishes me as well. I was having lunch at an outside diner the other day when a cat came up and rubbed my leg, so I picked her up and put her in my lap. The girl I was with was taken aghast and disgusted that I would pick up a strange animal much less feed it in my lap. So much for future dates with that girl. You can tell a lot about people by how they treat animals.
 
Henning said:
You can tell a lot about people by how they treat animals.
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Darn right. I find myself not trusting people that don't like animals. Maybe its wrong, but how can you not like a little cat or dog that just wants to give you joy.

I pet stragne cats and dogs all the time. If its a dog I will ask the owner if its OK first though. I've never had a bad experience with a pet.
 
Henning said:
Constantly astonishes me as well. I was having lunch at an outside diner the other day when a cat came up and rubbed my leg, so I picked her up and put her in my lap. The girl I was with was taken aghast and disgusted that I would pick up a strange animal much less feed it in my lap. So much for future dates with that girl. You can tell a lot about people by how they treat animals.
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Absolutely. Animals and wait staff.
 
Anthony said:
Darn right. I find myself not trusting people that don't like animals. Maybe its wrong, but how can you not like a little cat or dog that just wants to give you joy.

I pet stragne cats and dogs all the time. If its a dog I will ask the owner if its OK first though. I've never had a bad experience with a pet.
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I've only had one bad experience with a dog - a German dog bit my hand when I tried to give him a pet (this was in Germany). I told myself that the dog was still bitter over WWII.
 
Henning said:
You can tell a lot about people by how they treat animals.
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I like animals better than humans most of the time. People who don't like animals are not people I normally like or trust.

I play with "strange" animals all the time. Funny enough, most of them love me, and are happy to get some attention that they don't normally get from their owners. They figure out quickly that I'm a friend. Seeing as I used to rehabilitate abused pit bulls, I don't fear them and have yet to find a reason to. I was bitten once when I was about 8, but I deserved that one. The dog was just reacting to being scared, and I didn't know how to act around dogs.
 
Sorry guys, I part company with you all. I love dogs. I have two (photos below), and they're wonderful. They are a huge part of my life, and are like family to me. However, they're dogs. Not people, dogs. The guy in question entered into a high speed chase, imperiling himself, those he chased, and potentially innocent members of his community. Over a dog. I wouldn't like it if someone came and shot my dog, but I wouldn't go all Rambo about it either.
 

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steingar said:
Sorry guys, I part company with you all. I love dogs. I have two (photos below), and they're wonderful. They are a huge part of my life, and are like family to me. However, they're dogs. Not people, dogs. The guy in question entered into a high speed chase, imperiling himself, those he chased, and potentially innocent members of his community. Over a dog. I wouldn't like it if someone came and shot my dog, but I wouldn't go all Rambo about it either.
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It's not really about the dog, which sounds like it died quickly, it's about the low caliber of the thugs. It's so rare to catch these types in the act, especially by someone who is capable of doing something significant about it, that it's worth some risk.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Yeah, it is worth some risk, to everybody. Just like many things that are worthwhile.
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Catching and punishing those who do wrong involves some level of risk to everyone in society. It is far better to accept this risk than to let them run free and unpunished. As it is, we don't catch enough of them.

Animals treat humans better than most humans treat eachother. I see no reason why people who abuse them should be considered anything above scum.
 
You've obviously never witnessed what a pack of wild dogs can do to anything they either don't like or want to eat. Actually, humans act a lot like dogs. We're both pack animals.

The behavior in this thread is typical. We have identified individuals who do not belong to our group. We have labeled them "thugs" but could have used other labels (throughout history labels like "infidel' and "heretic" got lots of people dead). We have collectively designated them for death. Really little different than a pack of dogs attacking an intruder.
 
I wish he had taken them down. Punks.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Catching and punishing those who do wrong involves some level of risk to everyone in society. It is far better to accept this risk than to let them run free and unpunished. As it is, we don't catch enough of them.

Animals treat humans better than most humans treat eachother. I see no reason why people who abuse them should be considered anything above scum.
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For sure, but there's something of a sliding scale there.
 
Trapper John said:
Yep, if the guy had hit and killed someone as a result of the chase, the article would be completely different.
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Exactly.

article said:
Instead, he scrambled back to his pickup and launched what became a wild 40-mile chase that reached speeds of over 100 mph and crossed three counties.
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There are good reasons why even police are many times not allowed to chase like this any more. Maybe I would have done the same thing, especially when I was younger, but I would have expected to be prosecuted if caught.
 
Read his book before you pass judgment on his actions, is all I ask. Then think about what that dog meant to him and his healing process. Did you read WHY and HOW he named it Daisy?

Walk a mile in his combat boots before you cast any disparaging stones, folks. Please?
 
steingar said:
Sorry guys, I part company with you all. I love dogs. I have two (photos below), and they're wonderful. They are a huge part of my life, and are like family to me. However, they're dogs. Not people, dogs. The guy in question entered into a high speed chase, imperiling himself, those he chased, and potentially innocent members of his community. Over a dog. I wouldn't like it if someone came and shot my dog, but I wouldn't go all Rambo about it either.
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I wouldn't risk human lives for animal lives ever. But, I give this guy a pass for that. He risked his life for you and me.
 
Anthony said:
I wouldn't risk human lives for animal lives ever. But, I give this guy a pass for that. He risked his life for you and me.
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Why should that make any difference as to whether he's subject to the same rules of conduct as anyone else?

While I can't say for certain that I would have reacted any differently (and haven't in the past), I also can't say that such conduct is acceptable if we're going to live in a society governed by the rule of law. We either obey the law, or we don't - and one wrong doesn't justify a second wrong.

And it doesn't matter if the one wronged is a soldier, a cop, or anyone else.
 
Seals are a pretty tight knit group. This particular puppy was part of a therapy program for Marcus and named after the guys in his group who were killed. I have a feeling that if the cops don't keep the perps pretty tightly covered, they won't ever make it to any kind of trial. I have a couple of friends who are 'retired' Delta who probably know more ways to take care of a situation than I'd ever want to know.
 
Obi Heed Kenobi said:
Why should that make any difference as to whether he's subject to the same rules of conduct as anyone else?

While I can't say for certain that I would have reacted any differently (and haven't in the past), I also can't say that such conduct is acceptable if we're going to live in a society governed by the rule of law. We either obey the law, or we don't - and one wrong doesn't justify a second wrong.

And it doesn't matter if the one wronged is a soldier, a cop, or anyone else.
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By law, he should be penalized for any laws he broke and was caught on while taking his retaliatory action. I would think suspended sentences are appropriate.
 
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I really do feel for the guy, he sacrificed part of himself for his country. However, if he really is that messed up in the head he needs and should be getting help.

That said, in what kind of horrible place does anyone go about randomly shooting dogs or anything else? How messed up is that?
 
steingar said:
I really do feel for the guy, he sacrificed part of himself for his country. However, if he really is that messed up in the head he needs and should be getting help.
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He is getting help. The dog those thugs killed was a big part of that help.
 
steingar said:
I really do feel for the guy, he sacrificed part of himself for his country. However, if he really is that messed up in the head he needs and should be getting help.

That said, in what kind of horrible place does anyone go about randomly shooting dogs or anything else? How messed up is that?
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Like I said, I'm pretty divided on the issue. On the one hand, I can see myself (and a lot of other people I'd consider pretty reasonable) reacting the same way - I mean, that's my dog, man. At the same time, I don't give a rat's -ss if you've received the Medal of Honor; no one is above the law, and you just don't get to chase people around and threaten to kill them, apparently with both the intent and capability to carry it out - that's not legal anywhere, and while I love my dog (despite being annoyed with her on a regular basis), killing a person over killing a dog is nothing but in cold blood (i.e., unjustifiable in a society that is supposedly governed by law rather than the mob).

So, like I said - I can't say I would necessarily have done anything differently, having acted somewhat similarly in the past. At the same time, I also didn't put other people at risk or threaten murder of one party to a 3rd party, much less under circumstances where I knew it would be being recorded (911 call, and it makes me wonder whether there's something deeper going on there - I know that if I meant to kill someone, I wouldn't be advertising it to, I don't know, dispatch) - if I had done any of those things, I would have expected to be arrested and charged; thinking back, I'm somewhat surprised I wasn't put in cuffs for chasing down some jack--- who broke into my house.
 
jmaynard said:
He is getting help. The dog those thugs killed was a big part of that help.
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I don't think a dog substitutes for a mental health treatment plan. Could be wrong, I'm not psychiatrist, but that's my thought.

Given the fact that he went all Rambo I'd say that the canine based treatment plan has limited effectiveness.
 
steingar said:
I don't think a dog substitutes for a mental health treatment plan. Could be wrong, I'm not psychiatrist, but that's my thought.

Given the fact that he went all Rambo I'd say that the canine based treatment plan has limited effectiveness.
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It is difficult for the canine based treatment plan to be effective when someone shoots it.
 
steingar said:
I don't think a dog substitutes for a mental health treatment plan. Could be wrong, I'm not psychiatrist, but that's my thought.

Given the fact that he went all Rambo I'd say that the canine based treatment plan has limited effectiveness.
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Depending on the psychosis, the dog or other animal can be the root to a very effective therapy, better than can be effected with drugs. I've talked with a lot of Vietnam vets, many with major issues that relate to acts of sheer inhumanity and a justified loss of value towards life in general. The animal is always there to reinforce that there is value to life. Then there is also an issue of ever letting people close to you because of great loss under traumatic circumstances. Then there is self value in that "Thou shalt not kill" is for most an instinctual knowledge, and they have killed, brutally and without mercy. For many of these, the animal is a burden of atonement. There are many aspects to "pet therapy" that make it very effective among vets. Combat can and most likely will break a good mans mind. Some people need more help than others healing. Animals do a really good job at it.
 
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