Ever wonder what it's like to be beat to death?

We use to institutionalize the mentally ill until the movie "One Flew Over The Coo Coo Nest" showing how cold and inhumane mental institutions had become, and how "innocent" people could become victims of the state. Liberals in our society determined that people with mental problems should be allowed to live their "alternative lifestyles" , so the doors were opened to the "funny farms" and the homeless crisis was born. Believe it or not at one time in this country you could not live under a bridge or in a park. These people would be placed in state institutions and rehabilitated back into working, and being productive.

When the mentally ill are confronted by police who mostly only know violence this is the result. Sad. When we see a homeless dog we lock them up until a new home can be found. Shouldn't we treat people better than dogs? :dunno:
 
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That makes me sick! Those officers should be charged with 1st degree murder and prosecuted like any other civilian.
 
When the mentally ill are confronted by police who mostly only know violence this is the result. Sad. When we see a homeless dog we lock them up until a new home can be found. Shouldn't we treat people better than dogs? :dunno:

Correction, when we find homeless dogs, we lock them up and if they're deemed too sick, violent, or if the shelter is too full.......they are uthinized. A small percentage is adopted and reintroduced to society.

I do not condone this type of violence, but state run mental institutions are not the answer either.
 
No never did. But I think I'll go flying this evening.
 
We use to institutionalize the mentally ill until the movie "One Flew Over The Coo Coo Nest" showing how cold and inhumane mental institutions had become, and how "innocent" people could become victims of the state. Liberals in our society determined that people with mental problems should be allowed to live their "alternative lifestyles" , so the doors were opened to the "funny farms" and the homeless crisis was born. Believe it or not at one time in this country you could not live under a bridge or in a park. These people would be placed in state institutions and rehabilitated back into working, and being productive.

When the mentally ill are confronted by police who mostly only know violence this is the result. Sad. When we see a homeless dog we lock them up until a new home can be found. Shouldn't we treat people better than dogs? :dunno:
There were others who decided to cut back on the cost of running public mental institutions and stopped the funding and closed the doors. The same people stopped funding homeless shelters and put people with mental problems onto the street and the homeless crisis was born. There was a time when very few people needed to live under a bridge or in a park. Some people are incapable of being rehabilitated into productive workers.
 
I do not condone this type of violence, but state run mental institutions are not the answer either.

What do you suggest we do? Allowing people to remain addicted to alcohol, drugs, and to make a living by living on public disability, SSI, food stamps, prostitution, selling drugs, theft, crime of all kinds is okay? :dunno:

Seems to me the humane thing to do is to institutionalize the mentally ill and try and help them to be productive citizens.
 
Why isn't this thread green?
Yeah, I was about to link to something then I decided I had better not since it wasn't green. The first post wasn't SZ material but the second one sure was.
 
There were others who decided to cut back on the cost of running public mental institutions and stopped the funding and closed the doors. The same people stopped funding homeless shelters and put people with mental problems onto the street and the homeless crisis was born. There was a time when very few people needed to live under a bridge or in a park. Some people are incapable of being rehabilitated into productive workers.

Shouldn't we protect those that cannot fend for themselves?

http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2321/Health-Homeless-MENTAL-HEALTH-HOMELESS-PEOPLE.html

http://anxietypanichealth.com/2008/10/15/a-national-shame-the-mentally-ill-homeless/
 
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Yes, we should.
We still institutionalize the mentally ill. Only, now they are put into prison instead of hospitals.

Getting back to my crime componet of homelessness. :D

So instead of dealing with these mentally ill people in a humane way, in a hospital, we wait until they break the law then put them in prison with no help. Got it.

Like I said, we treat dogs more humanely than sick people.

Rehabilitation has a time table in prison. ;)

[ edit ] I've worked with the homeless, the disabled, and the mentally ill. I do understand the problem.s

As have I. :D
 
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Green? (Not sure what that means.). If the post is not marked correctly in some way, lemme know.

The recent dogpile of another PoA member had me thinking about this video, similar thuggery.

Starts with one person antagonizing the victim and before you know it, six people are sitting on top of them, crushing their ribcage. All believe they're justified in their actions once the physical fight starts. The intentional antagonizing is really where this man's path to death began. Put on a uniform and a gun and tell someone you're going to hurt them, that's a guaranteed path to fight-or-flight and a release of adrenaline, and the Officer knew it.

As far as the homeless go: I've been saying for a long time that there's more compassion for animals in our society than homeless or mentally ill fellow humans. We truly are awful as a society in this way.

No offense to the few here who have jobs flying such animals to new homes or the Pilots and Paws volunteers, but no animal shelter will ever get a dime of my money beyond the usual and customary donation when personally rescuing a pet, until our local human shelters have enough money.

My Facebook is inundated with stories of abused pets and pleas for money for animal shelters constantly. I know of ONE person who ever posted anything there about volunteering or sending money to help human beings.

Even around holidays the number of fuzzy cuddly pet abuse stories and comments from all sorts of folks about helping out, were at least 50:1 against people who posted to say "Help out our local homeless shelter."

Until the humans are all fed, I figure the animals can wait. But that's just my opinion.

We try to be as generous as we can to three "causes". One is the local homeless shelter (food, bed, hygiene). Another is a prison ministry (hope). Third is one of those "provide for a child in a poor country" type things (seemed right to do at the time, she's 17 now. Started when she was 3).

We believe very strongly in donating for human needs before cats and dogs. We don't say others should necessarily do the same. But it's where our hearts are.

I worked at a homeless shelter in Chicago for a brief period of time. Breaks my heart to see this man beaten to death. Was he rude to the cop? Sure. Was he a credible threat? Not really. The Officer clearly wanted to assert his authority over the man more than he cared to Serve and Protect him. Sad.
 
I worked at a homeless shelter in Chicago for a brief period of time. Breaks my heart to see this man beaten to death. Was he rude to the cop? Sure. Was he a credible threat? Not really. The Officer clearly wanted to assert his authority over the man more than he cared to Serve and Protect him. Sad.

Thank you!:sad:

WTF is this world coming to???:mad2:
 
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Green? (Not sure what that means.). If the post is not marked correctly in some way, lemme know.
The SZ background color is green, presumably so that people will know which forum they are in and not get carried away with a controversial angle in the main forums. Of course recently the regular forums have been way more contentious, and especially more personal, than the SZ.
 
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The SZ background color is green, presumably so that people will know which forum they are in and not get carried away with a controversial angle in the main forums. Of course recently the regular forums have been way more contentious, and especially more personal, than the SZ.

Ahh. Yes. SZ. I turned it off after a brief dip of the toes.

If mods feel this one is headed for SZ, feel free to move it. I was just sharing the video at first and tried hard to avoid editorializing.

Now I'm sounding like an advertisement for homeless shelters so I failed.

I could also say I'm for once glad a surveillance camera was in place, even though I'm generally against them as a ridiculous invasion of privacy for most folks. They're here to stay and in this case caught a pretty heinous crime. (Yeah, innocent until proven guilty I know. But it's crime in my opinion and apparently the DA there also agrees, so I'll be calling it that.)

Or I could be completely "unfair" and say something about "How many of this type of thing happen somewhere the camera isn't recording?" because obviously that happens too...

Sigh.

I'll put the shelter you mentioned on my list of recipients if I ever hit the Lotto Peggy. Gotta keep the donations local for now. My community gets first dibs on whatever funds we have for charity... not because other communities are any less in need, just 'cause we all have to start somewhere.
 
Seems to me the humane thing to do is to institutionalize the mentally ill and try and help them to be productive citizens.

Unfortunately, the mental hospitals of yesteryear did nothing of the sort. They were chronically underfunded (big surprise) and most were snake houses. they were shut down because everyone thought they were awful.

Unintended consequences, the mentally ill wind up on the streets or in jail. That said, ask them where they'd rather be, the funny farm, under a bridge, or in jail, you might get an interesting answer. Unfortunately, we have a problem that defies simple sound bite solutions. The even worse problem is a large fraction of the homeless are military veterans. They just have problems adjusting to the non military world, or have been too badly damaged in combat. Personally, I think they should be given housing, all the food they can eat and all the booze they can drink for as long as they live. They gave their best to defend our country, and should get it back. There goes my heart, bleeding again.
 
Atleast around here nothing can be forced on the ill person until they do something, often commit a crime. When the system works they a found NGRI and institutionalized until they can function safely.

It seems to work as well as any other solution, not perfect though, far from it.
 
Very sad. However, homeless are homeless by choice. There is no need for government funded homeless shelters as countless charities, and churches/religious groups run homeless shelters around the country.

If you want a bed, and food, you can get it almost anywhere.
 
If you want a bed, and food, you can get it almost anywhere.

I am genuinely curious, and do not mean to belittle or demean. You state that with the matter-of-factness that comes with conviction. Do you actually have experience to underlie that conviction? I don't, and the only experience I have is through the media, which says otherwise. However, I am fully aware that media outlets have their own agenda.
 
We use to institutionalize the mentally ill until the movie "One Flew Over The Coo Coo Nest" showing how cold and inhumane mental institutions had become, and how "innocent" people could become victims of the state. Liberals in our society determined that people with mental problems should be allowed to live their "alternative lifestyles" , so the doors were opened to the "funny farms" and the homeless crisis was born. Believe it or not at one time in this country you could not live under a bridge or in a park. These people would be placed in state institutions and rehabilitated back into working, and being productive.

When the mentally ill are confronted by police who mostly only know violence this is the result. Sad. When we see a homeless dog we lock them up until a new home can be found. Shouldn't we treat people better than dogs? :dunno:
That is interesting. I thought that it was the conservative tough love approach that cut funding and forced the doors to close, putting the mentally ill on the streets where they could pursue a productive life doing menial jobs for fast food restaurants and chicken farms. Silly me, all along it was the liberals doing it.
 
As far as the homeless go: I've been saying for a long time that there's more compassion for animals in our society than homeless or mentally ill fellow humans. We truly are awful as a society in this way.
I have recently started to agree with you. The thing is that animals are much easier to like. They have an innocence about them that humans don't have, except perhaps for babies. It's easy to blame homeless people for creating their own condition. The mentally ill are often not very likable.
 
That is interesting. I thought that it was the conservative tough love approach that cut funding and forced the doors to close, putting the mentally ill on the streets where they could pursue a productive life doing menial jobs for fast food restaurants and chicken farms. Silly me, all along it was the liberals doing it.

Nope. The ACLU started suing states and communities because they were holding mentally ill people against their will. Interesting how liberals try and rewrite history. ;)

They also stopped prisons from allowing inmates to participate in growing their own food for the prison. They were called trustees. The prison here used to raise their own chickens, beef, dairy, produce, put up hay, ect. Surplus goods were sold to the community. Proceeds were used to fund the prison saving tax dollars. Good time and on the job training could be earned by those who participated along with earning money. Some trustees actually drove themselves to the farms from the prisons, again earning respect and trust from prison officials. Another rehabilitation program snuffed out by liberals. Better to have them rot in their cells than learn the value of a dollar earned. ;) A program killed by the ACLU. :rolleyes:

Currently, prisoners build homes here to learn a trade. I have looked at their product and they take great pride in their work. Most certainly liberals will shut this down also. We can't have prisoners actually working. :nono:
 
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The mentally ill are often not very likable.

Depends entirely on their illness. Throughout history various "sick minds" have been quite popular for a time...even Nixon was re-elected.
 
We use to institutionalize the mentally ill until the movie "One Flew Over The Coo Coo Nest" showing how cold and inhumane mental institutions had become, and how "innocent" people could become victims of the state. Liberals in our society determined that people with mental problems should be allowed to live their "alternative lifestyles" , so the doors were opened to the "funny farms" and the homeless crisis was born. Believe it or not at one time in this country you could not live under a bridge or in a park. These people would be placed in state institutions and rehabilitated back into working, and being productive.

When the mentally ill are confronted by police who mostly only know violence this is the result. Sad. When we see a homeless dog we lock them up until a new home can be found. Shouldn't we treat people better than dogs? :dunno:


The problem really didn't kick into full gear until most of the mental health funding was withdrawn in the 80s. I watched all this growing up since my dad was clinical director for mental health for the state of Missouri. You're spot on with One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest being a cultural catalyst with regards to the formation of public opinion, but the system stayed relatively in tact until the 80s when thousands of mental institution beds (filled at the time) were emptied and the institutions closed due to lack of public funding.
 
Nope. The ACLU started suing states and communities because they were holding mentally ill people against their will.
Actually it was two forces working together. The fiscal conservatives wanted less spending, the libertarians wanted the mentally ill to be released.

I'll post my link now even if it sends it to the SZ.

http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.004/thomas.html

Abstract

Conventional wisdom suggests that the reduction of funding for social welfare policies during the 1980s is the result of a conservative backlash against the welfare state. With such a backlash, it should be expected that changes in the policies toward involuntary commitment of the mentally ill reflect a generally conservative approach to social policy more generally. In this case, however, the complex of social forces that lead to less restrictive guidelines for involuntary commitment are not the result of conservative politics per se, but rather a coalition of fiscal conservatives, law and order Republicans, relatives of mentally ill patients, and the practitioners working with those patients. Combined with a sharp rise in homelessness during the 1980s, Ronald Reagan pursued a policy toward the treatment of mental illness that satisfied special interest groups and the demands of the business community, but failed to address the issue: the treatment of mental illness
 
Depends entirely on their illness. Throughout history various "sick minds" have been quite popular for a time...even Nixon was re-elected.
That's true but those types of mentally ill are usually not the ones in homeless shelters. They are out scamming other people.
 
Ahh. Yes. SZ. I turned it off after a brief dip of the toes.

I don't see how being beaten to death by a cop can be anything other than Spin Zone material.

If you don't want to participate in the Spin Zone, that's your privilege, but if that's your choice, maybe you should avoid starting Spin Zone type threads outside the Spin Zone.

Just my opinion.
 
Liberals in our society determined that people with mental problems should be allowed to live their "alternative lifestyles" , so the doors were opened to the "funny farms" and the homeless crisis was born.

Ronald Reagan was a liberal? :confused:
 
That's true but those types of mentally ill are usually not the ones in homeless shelters. They are out scamming other people.
I thought those were the sociopaths. You know, the ones running the banks. ;)
 
I have way more compassion for an animal than i do for most humans.
 
Nope. The ACLU started suing states and communities because they were holding mentally ill people against their will. Interesting how liberals try and rewrite history. ;)

They also stopped prisons from allowing inmates to participate in growing their own food for the prison. They were called trustees. The prison here used to raise their own chickens, beef, dairy, produce, put up hay, ect. Surplus goods were sold to the community. Proceeds were used to fund the prison saving tax dollars. Good time and on the job training could be earned by those who participated along with earning money. Some trustees actually drove themselves to the farms from the prisons, again earning respect and trust from prison officials. Another rehabilitation program snuffed out by liberals. Better to have them rot in their cells than learn the value of a dollar earned. ;) A program killed by the ACLU. :rolleyes:

Currently, prisoners build homes here to learn a trade. I have looked at their product and they take great pride in their work. Most certainly liberals will shut this down also. We can't have prisoners actually working. :nono:
You seem to have it all figured out, just like always. How can anyone argue with that?
 
Very sad. However, homeless are homeless by choice. There is no need for government funded homeless shelters as countless charities, and churches/religious groups run homeless shelters around the country.

If you want a bed, and food, you can get it almost anywhere.

I am genuinely curious, and do not mean to belittle or demean. You state that with the matter-of-factness that comes with conviction. Do you actually have experience to underlie that conviction? I don't, and the only experience I have is through the media, which says otherwise. However, I am fully aware that media outlets have their own agenda.

I'd say he's accurate in most cities as far as the "there's usually a bed and food" assertion. Out in rural areas, no. You need family or friends in most rural areas. In cities, yes... you'll find something but there may be various rules/timeframes/etc attached. (The group I worked with in Chicago was quite religious, to the point of zealotry, as was I back then... for example. I joke nowadays that those were my "cult" days... heh.)

We had a number of homeless men who would visit the shelter/kitchen about three times a week, but preferred living outdoors. When I chatted with them about it, they said their "corner" or "spot" was their true "home". They had "family" there. Outdoors was their rules, their life. Any shelter (including ours) imposed rules on them if they stayed or joined longer-term rehab programs, that they just weren't interested in.

Many homeless folk stick with a group of others for mutual protection. A homeless "gang" if you will. Usually small. 4-5 people, max. They're not looking for violence, say like a street gang might be, but it does find them with some regularity. Often triggered by mental illness or misunderstandings. Alcohol, too.

The three or four men I found most fascinating were these guys I talked to one day (over hamburgers I bought so I'd be allowed to even ask a few questions of the clique - being an "outsider") who I'd been watching for weeks. I was fascinated because they were able-bodied enough to find places to live and be renters, heck the four of them could have rented a pretty nice place together.

As we talked over lunch on a street corner, the issue for these four was of habit... they knew the streets, they knew the game, they knew the players. They were almost frightened to move back to "normal" life. They'd figured out how to watch over each other and had their spots where other street people left them alone. They walked over to Manpower together every few days, so they even had some cash once in a while. (It immediately was converted to cheap liquor, but interestingly only one of the four was regularly stumbling drunk. Another one rarely drank at all... similar to a cross-section of "normal" life.) They'd all been living on the streets of Chicago for years.

Hard to explain what you learn about human behavior living and working with homeless folks for a few months. There's parts you can explain and others you just say, "You'd have to do do it..."
 
I thought those were the sociopaths. You know, the ones running the banks. ;)

This article might be an epiphany...

An article that claims the reason CEO pay is out of control is that sociopaths who hide it well, are in demand and there just aren't enough of them...

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/23004

Interesting idea anyway.

(Makes me want to go work on my sociopathic skill set. Do they teach that at Harvard in the MBA program? :lol: )
 
I am not saying that homeless people are choosing NOT to have their own homes. Some are choosing to stay on the street instead of seeking shelter, and food at a local hospice. Most communities do have charities, churches, and other organizations to give people assistance that want it. That is all I am saying.

You can always donate to these type of organizations and/or volunteer your time. Many of us here do just that. Another government program over the already existing one isn't going to do anything but create more government workers and deficits.
 
Currently, prisoners build homes here to learn a trade. I have looked at their product and they take great pride in their work. Most certainly liberals will shut this down also. We can't have prisoners actually working. :nono:

We're having an interesting unexpected consequence of prisoner labor here... The State has allowed a number of "non-profit" companies manage prison labor who have some pretty high-salary execs and overhead. They're really making a profit off of the cheap labor pool while taking grants and other finding as if they were rehabilitation programs. They're also driving numerous private businesses out because the private businesses can't compete against virtually free labor.

If you buy farmed Tilapia from Whole Foods in Colorado, you're getting it from Canon City prison labor, for example.

One of the private fish farm owners squawked loudly but was ignored by bereaucrats and politicians who push the "rehab" side of these prison businesses without mentioning the down-side. Many of the prisoners in the labor pool may be being rehabilitated but aren't even eligible for parole for decades to come.

The companies pay the State for the prisoner's expenses but the prison system has no idea what to charge. All the numbers I've seen look low. Then they pay the prisoners something in the range of $5 a day, maximum ... if they hit production quotas in the toughest jobs.
 
I am not saying that homeless people are choosing NOT to have their own homes. Some are choosing to stay on the street instead of seeking shelter, and food at a local hospice. Most communities do have charities, churches, and other organizations to give people assistance that want it. That is all I am saying.

You can always donate to these type of organizations and/or volunteer your time. Many of us here do just that. Another government program over the already existing one isn't going to do anything but create more government workers and deficits.

I am aware of shelters and the like. Are they sufficiently numerous to meet the need in your locality? I have heard anecdotally they are not in my own locality, but have no direct experience.
 
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