Ever have those frustrating days?

[Domenick]

My home drome is S43. 2672 x 36 with very active training and jump operations. The 15 runway has a 452' displaced threshold to clear the power lines at the end making it 2220' long. Prevailing winds are out of the south so much of the year 15 is the runway in use. 33 has a 242' displaced threshold for the 8' perimeter fence making it 2430' long

Your runway is 2465x48 with a 100' displaced threshold on 02. 7S3 is effectively longer and actually much wider than S43. The school at S43 typically solos students there at S43. Jump planes (Caravans and smaller), multi-engines, Bonanzas, and others all routinely land at S43. A DC-4 even landed there in 1977. (It landed in the length and width, but a wing clipped a parked van).

My point is not to denigrate you. Just to point out your home airfield is not particularly short or challenging. If your CFI has characterized it to you in that way, then perhaps your CFI lacks confidence in their abilities or has limited experience.

Do other students solo at your airport or do all the instructors take students elsewhere? You have mentioned you are 50-ish. How old is your CFI?

I am definitely not trying to drive a stake between you and your instructor. It seems time for a heart-to-heart between the two of you.

 

[vinlearns2fly]

My home drome is S43. 2672 x 36 with very active training and jump operations. The 15 runway has a 452' displaced threshold to clear the power lines at the end making it 2220' long. Prevailing winds are out of the south so much of the year 15 is the runway in use. 33 has a 242' displaced threshold for the 8' perimeter fence making it 2430' long

You runway is 2465x48 with a 100' displaced threshold on 02. 7S3 is effectively longer and actually much wider than S43. The school at S43 typically solos students there at S43. Jump planes (Caravans and smaller), multi-engines, Bonanzas, and others all routinely land at S43. A DC-4 even landed there in 1977. (It landed in the length and width, but a wing clipped a parked van).

My point is not to denigrate you. Just to point out your home airfield is not particularly short or challenging. If your CFI has characterized it to you in that way, then perhaps your CFI lacks confidence in their abilities or has limited experience.

Do other students solo at your airport or do all the instructors take students elsewhere? You have mentioned you are 50-ish. How old is your CFI?

I am definitely not trying to drive a stake between you and your instructor. It seems time for a heart-to-heart between the two of you.

I certainly appreciate your straightforwardness. Something has got to change (like someone else pointed in this thread earlier). I plan to have an honest discussion with my CFI in the next few days. I want to understand how much of this stagnation is ‘me’ vs. my training.

 

[scarcherpilot]

Not to disagree, but for those of us that are very used to 5k ft runways and 100 ft wide, that seems short and narrow....at least for what I am used to around Atlanta and the type of flying I do. Could I handle it...absolutely, but for a student, I could see it being a challenge. It isn't so much the short part that could be a problem unless he/she floats down the runway on landing trying to do a touch and go, but the width at 48ft is a little tight especially on crosswinds and would require not a lot of side drift at all once on the runway or in the flare. Given the nature of the trees off the end of 20, better not be low either. I think the CFI is making a good observation and may be making a solid judgement call having spent time with you in the pattern....we all fly different to a certain degree skill wise. He may be a little overly cautious at this point, but since none of us have flown with you, we are really only getting one side of the story (no offense because my kids tell me one side of the story all the time to later find out the real truth). That being said, if you start nailing those landings at your home airport, nothing will be challenging to you anywhere else LOL. Just my two cents.

 

[Salty]

That is like sharing my home address ButI have to back up my posts with real data so I get it. The airpot is 7S3 and I fly a C172M or C172P. Runway 02 is 'easier' though it is still a short runway. Runway 20 is challenging because of the trees that need to be cleared.


https://www.instagram.com/p/CNMKlsLJlcF/?utm_medium=copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPAFjqoh-r8/?utm_medium=copy_link

Ok, that helps. Definitely not an easy field to learn from. Not the worst either, but a challenge for a student for sure.

if it were me, I wouldn’t do anything but practice the pattern there until he feels comfortable signing you off to solo from there. But that’s just me.

Interesting comment in foreflight about the airport. “Runway ends not visible from each other”. Say what?

 

[vinlearns2fly]

Ok, that helps. Definitely not an easy field to learn from. Not the worst either, but a challenge for a student for sure.

if it were me, I wouldn’t do anything but practice the pattern there until he feels comfortable signing you off to solo from there. But that’s just me.

Interesting comment in foreflight about the airport. “Runway ends not visible from each other”. Say what?

It’s true. Runway ends are not visible from either end. What’s more, the owner has placed a couple of cones on either side of the runaway (02) that are used as ‘go around’ markers. If you aren’t wheels down by then, you go around. I’ll be honest, I love this airport for many reasons including that it’s family owned, is visited by friendly people and that when I eventually am cleared to fly solo here, it means that I can probably land at most other runways.


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[Domenick]

...It isn't so much the short part that could be a problem unless he/she floats down the runway on landing trying to do a touch and go, but the width at 48ft is a little tight especially on crosswinds and would require not a lot of side drift at all once on the runway or in the flare. ...

I apologize in advance for perhaps sounding like a preachy *******, but I have to comment on the danger of low expectations.

48 feet is not narrow, crosswind or not. It's wider than most trainer's wingspans!

The center line is in the same place on every runway. Crosswind or not, any pilot should be able to put the plane down with the center line between the main gear >=95% of the time, and execute go-arounds the other few percent. If an existing PPL cannot consistently do so, they have some serious remedial work to do. If a student cannot, then I agree they are not ready to solo and have more practice/learning to do.

Stating or implying a 48' runway is "narrow", particularly in a training forum, does the student no service. It instills fear, lowers performance expectations, and excuses poor performance.

...we all fly different to a certain degree skill wise. ...

Yes, but we all should fly to the same minimum skill level. To my mind, putting the center line between the mains on any width runway is a minimum requirement.

All that said, I admit I am not perfect and do not always live up to my own expectations. Do I occasionally drift out of the center line zone? Yes. On those occasions, I execute a go-around--regardless of the runway width. Why? Why not just put her down 10' to the left on a 100' wide runway?

Because 10' off on my home runway or Roche Harbor (WA09) or Eisenberg (OKH) or many others I visit could put me in the weeds.

 

[Domenick]

...Interesting comment in foreflight about the airport. “Runway ends not visible from each other”. Say what?

Please explain why the ends are not visible from each other.
I've seen other runways that for one reason or another the ends are not visible from each other due to doglegs and crowns.

...What’s more, the owner has placed a couple of cones on either side of the runaway (02) that are used as ‘go around’ markers....

Nice guy, and a good idea. Why just on the 02 runway? At the least it's a stake in the ground at known distance. Are the cones visible from both ends?

 

[vinlearns2fly]

Please explain why the ends are not visible from each other.
I've seen other runways that for one reason or another the ends are not visible from each other due to doglegs and crowns.


Nice guy, and a good idea. Why just on the 02 runway? At the least it's a stake in the ground at known distance. Are the cones visible from both ends?

Yep. I’ve greased the wheels (assessment from my CFI, not self praise) on 02 several times when flying dual. But there are times when I haven’t and he’s had to step in - particular when there is an unfavorable crosswind. I’ve done the same on 20 as well, but crosswinds get me.

 

[Salty]

I apologize in advance for perhaps sounding like a preachy *******, but I have to comment on the danger of low expectations.

48 feet is not narrow, crosswind or not. It's wider than most trainer's wingspans!

The center line is in the same place on every runway. Crosswind or not, any pilot should be able to put the plane down with the center line between the main gear >=95% of the time, and execute go-arounds the other few percent. If an existing PPL cannot consistently do so, they have some serious remedial work to do. If a student cannot, then I agree they are not ready to solo and have more practice/learning to do.

Stating or implying a 48' runway is "narrow", particularly in a training forum, does the student no service. It instills fear, lowers performance expectations, and excuses poor performance.


Yes, but we all should fly to the same minimum skill level. To my mind, putting the center line between the mains on any width runway is a minimum requirement.

All that said, I admit I am not perfect and do not always live up to my own expectations. Do I occasionally drift out of the center line zone? Yes. On those occasions, I execute a go-around--regardless of the runway width. Why? Why not just put her down 10' to the left on a 100' wide runway?

Because 10' off on my home runway or Roche Harbor (WA09) or Eisenberg (OKH) or many others I visit could put me in the weeds.

Sheesh. The first time you got into a plane you were able to land on the center line in a crosswind? Congrats.

 

[AlphaMike]

Sheesh. The first time you got into a plane you were able to land on the center line in a crosswind? Congrats.

I remember struggling to keep the center line at KONZ when I first started training. I probably had 10 hours or so. One day I was landing 5 to 7 feet off to the left and he said "lets go up to Brighton and try it there" That's when I learned how to land on the center of the center line LOL! Brighton 45G is only 24' wide.. That narrow runway made me truly understand.

 

[vinlearns2fly]

I’ve been thinking about this and will respond to my own post.

Part of my ‘frustration' is that I am my own worst critic. If I don't grease a landing or don't make centerline then I automatically label it as a landing that was not good / borderline bad. This also impacts my confidence.

I flew yesterday - solo in a larger airport and dual in my home airport. I did decently and my CFI called it a good day.

I'm hoping you I fly solo in my home airport this long weekend.

 

[Torque beast]

Relax and enjoy it, precision will come later the more you fly


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[Zeek]

It seems like being hyper critical of oneself is a fairly common theme. I would have days where I was getting out of the airplane thinking I had a bad day and my instructor would laugh, because she thought I had done just fine. The day before my checkride was scheduled, I went out to do some solo pattern work and had the best day that I have ever had in the air. I felt like I was truly one with the plane. I kid you not, I thought it was my breakthrough where I was now a “good” pilot. 8 short field landings put down within feet of where I intended, things could not have gone any better. I left the airport thinking that I had it all figured out.

My check ride got canceled due to weather, and I went flying a few days later to stay sharp, and proceeded to have one of my worst days that I had ever had in the air. My confidence was shattered, and after a couple of bad landing I was genuinely concerned that I had somehow forgotten how to land the plane. My next 2 flights weren’t much better, and I had some issues creeping into a couple maneuvers. I went from being excited for my checkride, to dreading it. I did fine on my checkride and passed in terrible conditions. My instructor sat me down and told me before the ride that I was beating myself up over minor mistakes, and that it was getting into my head. She told me that everything I was doing was still safe, and not putting myself or the plane in danger. As hard as it was, I had to let it go, and any “bad” flight from then on has been followed by a much better one. I almost look forward to it now. In my mind, the pendulum just needs to swing back the other way. I’ve now learned the difference between an unsafe flight and a safe flight with less than perfect technique, and I’ve stopped needlessly beating myself up about it.


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[Zeek]

For me, flying has been a great deal psychological. In fact, that is one of the aspects that I now enjoy most.


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[Domenick]

Sheesh. The first time you got into a plane you were able to land on the center line in a crosswind? Congrats.

We're having a polite discussion responding to a plea for help from an aspiring pilot having a difficult time.

Please do your homework before getting snarky. Read the first post. The OP has 100+ hours.

 

[Salty]

We're having a polite discussion responding to a plea for help from an aspiring pilot having a difficult time.

Please do your homework before getting snarky. Read the first post. The OP has 100+ hours.

Yeah, I’m the one being snarky.

 

[vinlearns2fly]

We're having a polite discussion responding to a plea for help from an aspiring pilot having a difficult time.

Please do your homework before getting snarky. Read the first post. The OP has 100+ hours.

Yeah, I’m the one being snarky.

Well, let's get the focus back to me

This OP had an incident at a class D yesterday that could have gone south. After landing (solo), I think I may have incorrectly applied too much right rudder and ended up almost causing a runway excursion, which I corrected last minute. I am fine (just shaken up), the plane is fine and my CFI said that I did a good job correcting and that this happens to others as well. The airport tower probably saw what happened but didn't ask me anything and allowed me to depart the airport without a problem. I mount GoPro's in the plane, which were a huge help when I played the videos back. My confidence is shaken, but I am not giving up. If there is a CFI or student here that is willing to talk to me 1:1 just to give me some advice about this and review those videos, I will be more than grateful. I don't want to post them in public here because the last thing I need is for someone to make me feel worse.

 

[Salty]

I did something similar on my first post check ride flight. In my case, and sounds like it could have been yours, I was going way too fast and forced it down. It’s a typical mistake . Fly the right speeds and go around and do it again if things aren’t right.

I’m more than willing to review and talk if you’d like, not a cfi.

 

[scarcherpilot]

I apologize in advance for perhaps sounding like a preachy *******, but I have to comment on the danger of low expectations.

48 feet is not narrow, crosswind or not. It's wider than most trainer's wingspans!

The center line is in the same place on every runway. Crosswind or not, any pilot should be able to put the plane down with the center line between the main gear >=95% of the time, and execute go-arounds the other few percent. If an existing PPL cannot consistently do so, they have some serious remedial work to do. If a student cannot, then I agree they are not ready to solo and have more practice/learning to do.

Stating or implying a 48' runway is "narrow", particularly in a training forum, does the student no service. It instills fear, lowers performance expectations, and excuses poor performance.


Yes, but we all should fly to the same minimum skill level. To my mind, putting the center line between the mains on any width runway is a minimum requirement.

All that said, I admit I am not perfect and do not always live up to my own expectations. Do I occasionally drift out of the center line zone? Yes. On those occasions, I execute a go-around--regardless of the runway width. Why? Why not just put her down 10' to the left on a 100' wide runway?

Because 10' off on my home runway or Roche Harbor (WA09) or Eisenberg (OKH) or many others I visit could put me in the weeds.

Its ok, snarky is a way of internet life and i am not looking to get into a my plane is faster than your plane discussion, just stating opinion. I agree with you for the most part...but narrow is a relative term...especially for a student. I am merely stating an opinion as a fellow pilot, that i remember my days of training (agree 100 hours training should be long past for the OP), i couldn't hit center line consistently and it would only take once to get sideways on 48 feet versus double that to have a chance at correcting safely. Also, sometimes mentally speaking, even now, when i am coming into a 48 ft runway versus a 100 foot i am used to...i mentally notice it more myself (N of 1 of course) and the pucker factor is a little stronger. Just me I guess mainly being used to 5k runways with 100 ft. This is similar to people that don't like talking to CD, Grnd, towers and approach/departure center etc because they never do it always flying out of uncontrolled airports. Some people mentally freeze up with controlled space radio comms. Having flown most of my life from Deltas...radios don't scare me but some people they do.

I wasn't trying to discourage the OP at all, my first post on this thread was meant to encourage...but that was prior to knowing the runway width and length. I was merely pointing out that we are only getting one side of the story based on what the OP has told us....would love to hear what the CFI has to say personally but that will likely not happen.


To the OP, dont give up as i mention in my first post...it will eventually click...i remember when i was training and i couldnt get crosswind corrections for anything and one day it finally clicked ...it became so obvious like a light turned on suddenly. Perhaps it wouldnt hurt to give another CFI a try just for one flight at least to get a second opinion. I had two for my PPL training...one was mean snarly overweight lady and the other an underfeed guy weighing a buck o five that was really fun and nice. I can tell you which i preferred to fly with, but I can also tell you which one made me a better pilot.

Best of luck

 

[vinlearns2fly]

I wasn't trying to discourage the OP at all, my first post on this thread was meant to encourage...but that was prior to knowing the runway width and length. I was merely pointing out that we are only getting one side of the story based on what the OP has told us....would love to hear what the CFI has to say personally but that will likely not happen.


To the OP, dont give up as i mention in my first post...it will eventually click...i remember when i was training and i couldnt get crosswind corrections for anything and one day it finally clicked ...it became so obvious like a light turned on suddenly. Perhaps it wouldnt hurt to give another CFI a try just for one flight at least to get a second opinion. I had two for my PPL training...one was mean snarly overweight lady and the other an underfeed guy weighing a buck o five that was really fun and nice. I can tell you which i preferred to fly with, but I can also tell you which one made me a better pilot.

Best of luck

Thank you. No discouragement was taken. I’m going to keep flying no matter what - even if it means I have another PIC with me all the time and I definitely. That’s how much I love this hobby.

I am going to ask another CFI from the same school to fly with me later this week for a couple of hours - just for some different perspective and insights into what I’m doing. He did my pre-solo check and had perspective to offer that was valuable and very different from what I get from my current CFI. It feels a bit delicate to me because I don’t want my CFI to be offended, but something has to change.