Entering the pattern?

mikeinbama said:
My term, not his. Standard pattern is more accurate. I believe he just wants me to practice. Not usually as much to learn on a straight in I would think.


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Advisory Circular 90-66A is the reference for uncontrolled airports.

Bob Gardner
 
JoeSelch said:
Straight in.
Or enter on the upwind leg.

If only there was a diagram for this...
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Bingo .. what he said. I might use straight in if there's no other traffic .. but
you never know when someone's nordo so have to stay alert. Keeping going
to the east slightly south of the runway on upwind gives a good view of airport.
Then crosswind, downwind, base and final.

RT
 
AggieMike88 said:
Because you shouldn't be crossing midfield at pattern altitude. A 90° turn would put you in to the pattern direction, but too high.

Flying beyond and doing the 270 teardrop gives you a chance to loose the extra altitude and come in on the 45° at pattern altitude.
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Our schools required entry from the opposite side is to cross midfield at pattern altitude and then hang a right/left into the downwind. I hate doing it, but it's how we have to teach it.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Citation please...
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AIM 4-3-4
c. Preparatory to landing at an airport without a control tower, or when the control tower is not in operation, pilots should concern themselves with the indicator for the approach end of the runway to be used. When approaching for landing, all turns must be made to the left unless a traffic pattern indicator indicates that turns should be made to the right. If the pilot will mentally enlarge the indicator for the runway to be used, the base and final approach legs of the traffic pattern to be flown immediately become apparent.

FAR 91.113 (g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.

FAR 91.126 (b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace--
(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right;
 
mikeinbama said:
But for clarity, is an AC regulatory?
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No.

whifferdill said:
Overhead pattern. It's even in the AIM. :)
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Heck yes! Perfect opportunity to come up initial like a boss!

CTLSi said:
FAR 91.126 (b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace--
(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right;
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The way I read that, if the airport does not have a segmented circle, but AirNav, the AF/D, and sectional charts indicate a right pattern, I can still do left cause the airport isn't displaying a visual marking indicator. What if the airport is in a class E surface area instead of class G?
 
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CTLSi said:
AIM 4-3-4
c. Preparatory to landing at an airport without a control tower, or when the control tower is not in operation, pilots should concern themselves with the indicator for the approach end of the runway to be used. When approaching for landing, all turns must be made to the left unless a traffic pattern indicator indicates that turns should be made to the right. If the pilot will mentally enlarge the indicator for the runway to be used, the base and final approach legs of the traffic pattern to be flown immediately become apparent.

FAR 91.113 (g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.

FAR 91.126 (b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace--
(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right;
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:confused:

Huh......

That is information on directions of turns IN a traffic pattern! If your not in the pattern, aka a straight in, then you do not have to follow it.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
The way I read that, if the airport does not have a segmented circle, but AirNav, the AF/D, and sectional charts indicate a right pattern, I can still do left cause the airport isn't displaying a visual marking indicator. What if the airport is in a class E surface area?
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You still have to follow the indicated turns as published. Some airports do not have wind circles. The same applies in Class E surface area. You treat it like any other uncontrolled field. It only means something to IFR traffic.
 
ARFlyer said:
You still have to follow the indicated turns as published. Some airports do not have wind circles. The same applies in Class E surface area. You treat it like any other uncontrolled field. It only means something to IFR traffic.
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What I'm getting at is that FAR seems very poorly worded...
 
Adding to the earlier FAR and AIM references in non towered airports, there is also discussion in the Airplane Flying Handbook, Chapter 7 Airport Traffic Patterns:

Compliance with the basic rectangular traffic pattern
reduces the possibility of conflicts at airports without
an operating control tower. It is imperative that the pilot
form the habit of exercising constant vigilance in the
vicinity of airports even though the air traffic appears
to be light.
 
ARFlyer said:
:yeahthat:

I wonder if anyone has ever tried their luck with those poorly worded regs?!?
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I don't know. But I ain't volunteering to stick my neck out for the sake of untowered traffic patterns:D
 
You know all of this is really irrelevant if there are no constraints such as the airport being in a valley with mountain ridges on both sides. If you want to fly a standard pattern entry and you already know what runway you are going to use then just plan it when you're ten miles out, fly to the north of the airport, turn and enter the pattern normally.

It's not a big deal. What's the point of sweating over a few ounces of avgas after you just flew an airplane 120 miles to get a hamburger :dunno:
 
CTLSi said:
AIM 4-3-4
c. Preparatory to landing at an airport without a control tower, or when the control tower is not in operation, pilots should concern themselves with the indicator for the approach end of the runway to be used. When approaching for landing, all turns must be made to the left unless a traffic pattern indicator indicates that turns should be made to the right. If the pilot will mentally enlarge the indicator for the runway to be used, the base and final approach legs of the traffic pattern to be flown immediately become apparent.

FAR 91.113 (g) Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft.

FAR 91.126 (b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace--
(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right;
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You can't seriously be using this reference to infer that straight-ins are "officially" admonished. If you're flying straight in, you're NOT TURNING. If you're not turning, you can't violate any turn direction requirement.
 
mikeinbama said:
Thank you everyone for your input. I had no idea that a pattern entry question was a hot button topic.

Again, thanks for all the input. But we can stop now.
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It is but don't stop asking the questions. At some point we all came here and asked the same ones. NEVER let any responses from folks here discourage you from asking questions. We can be a dickey bunch (mostly Tim) but we are all here to learn at times. Roll with it.

There are just some items that are without question going to spawn a thread spiraling into the abyss.

"I just finished my training. Is it better to rent or own?"
"I have decided to own. Um.. High wings are better than low wings right?"
"What is the proper starting procedure for anything"
"If I fly my friend to lunch and he offers to pay for half of it and buy lunch..."
"Any traffic in the pattern. Please advise"

And if you inadvertently start one of those threads just sit back and watch the banter.

I have enjoyed watching your progress and I will continue to read and learn from others' answers to your queries.


Edit: for the record, I have never met Tim but someone called him a d!ck in another thread and I've decided to just go with that.
 
I'd make a straight-in If there was a reason why I had to fly the whole pattern, I'd enter upwind at TPA (no jinking/zigging -- there's no reason for a "45-to-upwind" entry), then turn crosswind, downwind, base, and final.
 
evapilotaz said:
Ok thanks I haven't read every post in this thread yet.
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Yes David, I did my three lap solo Saturday. Tomorrow will be my first solo to the practice area. I actually called my instructor about a couple of other things, so I asked him about this. He said he would prefer that I enter on a 45 being a student. He told me he would like me to either overfly the field at 500 above TPA and do the 135 degree turn, or as Ron said, enter a 45 upwind and then crosswind over the threshold then downwind.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I am confused about this.
Initially I thought you were referring to the tear drop but that would be 270

what is the 135 degree turn?
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Ok, I suck at geometry, it's 225. I'm flying 360, right 90 to 090, right 90 to 180 the 45 to enter the pattern. Sorry for the confusion and yes total turn is 270.
 
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Ah got it. Turning left into a left pattern.
Tear drop = turning right into left downwind.

This first go round, I would fly past the field and come back to it and enter on the 45 degree downwind.

Nothing wrong with that at all and it is what your CFI wants.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Ah got it. Turning left into a left pattern.
Tear drop = turning right into left downwind.

This first go round, I would fly past the field and come back to it and enter on the 45 degree downwind.

Nothing wrong with that at all and it is what your CFI wants.
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No, you were right.
 
What?

You don't have a metal landing calculator?

What kind of a student are you?

:goofy:
 
CTLSi said:
Flying straight-in is not just rude and dangerous, it's admonished in the AIM.

Though people violate the common safety and courtesy rules of Unicom by doing such things, dropping into downwind from pattern altitude, departing on a 90 degree xwind, and even cutting in front of others on base, none of those practices are considered professional or safe.
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You've lost it completely, now you are making stuff up. Please cite the admonishment in the AIM or in the FAR. Straight in is given as a listed entry type. It all depends on where you are coming from.
 
ARFlyer said:
Our schools required entry from the opposite side is to cross midfield at pattern altitude and then hang a right/left into the downwind. I hate doing it, but it's how we have to teach it.
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I am guilty of doing it that way. I can see the traffic better at the pattern altitude than looking for it from 500 above. Cross midfield at pattern altitude and make a left 90.
 
Concorde said:
I am guilty of doing it that way. I can see the traffic better at the pattern altitude than looking for it from 500 above. Cross midfield at pattern altitude and make a left 90.
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yep, me too. I have so many reasons why I prefer to do it that way, but I don't wanna stir up this thread any more.
 
Henning said:
You've lost it completely, now you are making stuff up.
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That's his forte.

Regarding how I'd fly the pattern. I'm with Levy. I'd make a direct entry into an upwind and then fly crosswind to downwind. That provides ample opportunity to look at the windsock and to also ensure there's no other traffic. Also, if the windsock tell you that you should use 27 instead of 09 then you're already on downwind,

I've landed with a tailwind a few times at my home field doing "straight-ins." This because we have no ASOS. Farmington, which is only 11 miles away, does. And I've based my decision on their report. I've found that there can be a lot of difference in those 11 miles.

So I'll announce "direct entry, left upwind, 01." If I get to midfield and the sock tells me that's the wrong direction then I'll simply make another call "57D, left downwind 19."

The nice part about my field is that I can count on one hand how many times there's been other traffic when I'm coming or going.
 
Another fun tidbit to consider if you are on the student side of a checkride.

If you go straight-in at a Unicom field on your checkride plan to get a Notice of Disapproval (8060-5). DPEs will nail you for 'poor aeronatical decision making' on a move like that, especially if someone else is in the pattern.
 
CTLSi said:
Another fun tidbit to consider if you are on the student side of a checkride.

If you go straight-in at a Unicom field on your checkride plan to get a Notice of Disapproval (8060-5). DPEs will nail you for 'poor aeronatical decision making' on a move like that, especially if someone else is in the pattern.
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Under what pretext?
 
Three most important things to know when entering the pattern.

1) which way the wind is blowing
2) which way you are going and what runway you are actually going to land on
3) there is no telling what direction other aircraft will be coming from - even if they make an announcement over the radio.


I'm flying over Put-in-bay (3W2) to check out the pattern (and setting up to turn around on the 45) and I hear:

"Put-in-bay traffic Cessna 123 left downwind for runway 3..."

I look down - nope, not where he says he is - but I see someone on what could be a left downwind for 21.

Pattern police: "Runway 3 is right traffic only."

Cessna on downwind for 21 turns and wanders away...
 
MAKG1 said:
Cross midfield 500 feet above the highest pattern altitude.

You'll surprise downwind traffic if you intersect from the field side at their altitude.

Be aware that some airports have multiple pattern altitudes.
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This is what I usually do.
 
MAKG1 said:
Cross midfield 500 feet above the highest pattern altitude.

You'll surprise downwind traffic if you intersect from the field side at their altitude.
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You speak as if you recommend absolute best practice. The reason pattern discussions are so controversial is that there is no such thing as best practice. Do it one way, and you open the door for potential conflicts in other ways. There are respectable arguments either way. People who are absolute procedure-bound are often not thinking for themselves about the big picture and what's really most important when operating in a traffic pattern.
 
Henning said:
You've lost it completely, now you are making stuff up. Please cite the admonishment in the AIM or in the FAR. Straight in is given as a listed entry type. It all depends on where you are coming from.
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There is no admonishment; that's a fabrication.

However, all of the AIM's pattern entry examples are on the left 45, entering midfield downwind.

That suggests it is favored, but may not mean even that.
 
I'm lost on why this instructor has this requirement. It seems he's not allowing the student to think and plan for himself, using this real-world example for illustration of a practical and safe use of a straight in approach, which would be appropriate in this scenario. It reduces exposure to the airspace most likely to invite a mid-air.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I'm lost on why this instructor has this requirement. It seems he's not allowing the student to think and plan for himself, using this real-world example for illustration of a practical and safe use of a straight in approach, which would be appropriate in this scenario. It reduces exposure to the airspace most likely to invite a mid-air.
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Maybe to force the student to look for a windsock and confirm which is the appropriate runway. This can't be done on a straight-in and if there's no ASOS...????...

I will probably fly a straight-in approach about 15% of the time...but I'm not a student.
 
CTLSi said:
If you go straight-in at a Unicom field on your checkride plan to get a Notice of Disapproval (8060-5). DPEs will nail you for 'poor aeronatical decision making' on a move like that, especially if someone else is in the pattern.
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Other than the fact that you must demonstrate at least one traffic pattern on the practical test for PP-Airplane, there is nothing in the regulations, PP-A PTS, or any FAA document allowing an examiner to say that performing a straight-in approach at a nontowered airport is automatically "poor aeronautical decision making". On the contrary, the regulations clearly permit this, and case law tells us that if an aircraft in the pattern which cuts you off while you're doing a straight-in, the FAA will take action against the other pilot, not you.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I'm lost on why this instructor has this requirement. It seems he's not allowing the student to think and plan for himself, using this real-world example for illustration of a practical and safe use of a straight in approach, which would be appropriate in this scenario. It reduces exposure to the airspace most likely to invite a mid-air.
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Like many decisions, you have a default that is always (or almost always) safe, and then a specific positive decision to change it.

That is, you enter on the 45, every time, unless you go through an analysis that says another approach is better.
 
timwinters said:
Maybe to force the student to look for a windsock and confirm which is the appropriate runway. This can't be done on a straight-in and if there's no ASOS...????...
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...there's always your preflight briefing winds, smoke, trees, flags, etc, to tell you which way the wind is blowing.

I will probably fly a straight-in approach about 15% of the time...but I'm not a student.
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I was taught and did them as a Student Pilot in 1969, and I see no reason why that should be different today. There are times it's appropriate, there are times it's not appropriate, and the Student Pilot should be learning how to tell the difference as well as how to execute one safely.
 
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