Engine overhaul finances
- Thread starter Tom-D
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jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Personally I'd rather the A&P tell me what I need and I'd order it myself. Not because I wouldn't trust the A&P just because that's how I prefer to do things.
Not trusting your A&P with a credit card where you're not liable if anything bad happens makes no sense when you're trusting them with your life already.
Not trusting your A&P with a credit card where you're not liable if anything bad happens makes no sense when you're trusting them with your life already.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
That's exactly what I did with our Pathfinder back in 2002.
He built us the best O-540, ever. It ran flawlessly until we sold it in 2013.
It's not for the faint of heart.
txflyer
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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
I wouldn't hand my CC over to just any mechanic and say "here! buy whatever you need!", but I'd trust my local plane Dr. with mine.
I think we're pals...
I think we're pals...
deyoung
Line Up and Wait
Agreed -- I wouldn't give him the card # and say "make it work," but if he gave me a detailed quote (which I would expect, frankly), I'd be comfortable giving him the card number and saying "I approve the work on this quote."
Stewartb
Final Approach
While I was building my PA-12, which was a multi-year project, I had CC numbers on file at the local parts places and my mechanic was authorized to pick up what he wanted when he wanted. No hesitation. I'd do the same with my current mechanic.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
If I trust a guy enough to OH my engine (and that takes a lot of trust), I cetainly trust him enough to let him have/use my CC.
Stewartb
Final Approach
When I overhauled my 0-320 I used Divco and Aircraft Specialty Services for machining and inspection work and bought virtually all the parts from ASS and ECI. I have better than average local parts availability but didn't need anything that wasn't expected or anticipated easily except for a couple of longer push rods at the last moment. It should be pretty simple for a mechanic to have all the parts laid out before the assembly begins. That being the case the owner can place the parts orders if that suits him better.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
Dun know.....I'd prolly be beside myself. 
Never given my mechanics a credit card. What I've done is give them some "working capital" as one them would call it which essentially was a prepayment on the bill to cover the advance order of substantial parts.
James331
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James331
That
Though I make it a point to order my own parts.
Personally with the low prices and guarantee of places like Heart of Texas, I don't know why anyone would have a local AP overhaul a engine, shy of super sweet deal and a proven track record of engine overhauls.
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Bob Noel
I trusted my A&P enough to work on my airplane.
But, no, I wouldn't give him my CC number. My A&P knew that he could either have me order the parts (the normal situation), or he could order them and I would reimburse him prompty.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
Has Bruce moved to Wyoming? There's a couple-year-old thread here about "heart of Texas" but the link now takes you to "heart of the west"
?????
JB1842
En-Route
I don't like that my wife has her own credit card, and I trust her not to kill me while I sleep. I'm not going to give it to my mechanic. I would pay him a percentage of the total cost up front to cover parts, but I would expect a receipt for all work done, parts bought.
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Depends on the A&P, some no worries, some not a chance. I have 3 boat owners' CCs in my wallet right now. One guy I've been carrying his around for over a decade.
Brad Z
Final Approach
I don't have a problem, per se, giving an A&P my CC number, particularly if he accepted CC as payment.
That said, it doesn't sound like a very professional way to do business. If he's not supplying the parts, then he can just provide me win a list of items and I'll have them shipped to his shop. If he needs cash to cover the parts, the. I'll put a deposit on the job and he can use his credit card.
He's taking on enough risk rebuilding my engine. Why does he need to take on the risk of holding on to my credit crd number as well?
It kinda raises a secondary question question, "If you don't trust your mechanic with your credit card, should you trust them with your plane and your life?" 
Here's a thought, establish the overhaul/plane with it's own account, use that for everything aircraft related, and just transfer controlled amounts into it. The card stays with the plane, lots of boats are set up like that.
Here's a thought, establish the overhaul/plane with it's own account, use that for everything aircraft related, and just transfer controlled amounts into it. The card stays with the plane, lots of boats are set up like that.
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RotorAndWing
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Rotor&Wing
Agreed, it's a shoddy business practice if the A&P expects to operate on the consumer's credit card for parts.
mkosmo
Pattern Altitude
It kinda raises a secondary question question, "If you don't trust your mechanic with your credit card, should you trust them with your plane and your life?"
You can trust them to know the engine well and do a perfect job, but that doesn't mean you don't have to trust them simultaneously not to use that same card for hookers and blow.
gkainz
Final Approach
Are most A&Ps going to spend time to shop for the best prices on parts, or are they going to go to one or two of their most used contacts and order what's needed? I suspect the latter, as they're on the clock and research takes time.
However, I can put some time into researching parts and prices and a lot of times can find the "good deal" out there and save some $$ on parts.
How many A&Ps balk at installing customer provided parts?
However, I can put some time into researching parts and prices and a lot of times can find the "good deal" out there and save some $$ on parts.
How many A&Ps balk at installing customer provided parts?
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Tom-D
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Tom-D
Most A&Ps can't afford to get stuck with a $10,000 parts order, many owners do their overhaul on a credit card and most A&Ps are not set up to take a card.
I have customers that operate both ways.
Some say "here use this card"
some say "send me a list"
It's not a problem, Visa handles that for you.
BTW, could you give me the name of your coke dealer? Mine only takes cash. I haven't been able to swipe a card in a hooker's slot either.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
When you have your parts drop shipped to me, wouldn't I know they are authorized parts or not?
Does that address his question?
Tom-D
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Tom-D
I was hoping that he was asking about authorized FAA/PMAed parts
That's one thing that bugs me about banking here. In Australia, I could just go on line and direct deposit from a card into a private account for a $1 EFT fee. Cheap and easy to move money between people. The thing is, the American economy is driven by the motion of money, every time it moves and does something, 3% minimum disappears.
Is that the only reason a mechanic would balk at owner supplied parts?
Tom-D
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Tom-D
different subject
gkainz
Final Approach
absolutely would ... there's always that balance and I would hope I would know about that ahead of time.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
It's the only reason I would.
No it isn't. You said you can't take direct credit card payment. Is you were in Brisbane with a Westpac checking or savings account, you could. The reason to keep you from being able to take card payments is to get more money out of wire transfers. The system and is penalizing you for not having a merchant account, you must not be a real business.
gkainz
Final Approach
I think my wording looked like an argument ... it was just a curiosity question. Perhaps should have said "Do A&Ps tend to balk at installing customer provided parts, or is that generally accepted?"
Stewartb
Final Approach
Customers buy parts that come in boxes and bags and have yellow tags and compliance statements enclosed. They're the same parts the mechanic would purchase. Or perhaps your mechanic will inspect and re-use current parts. Those things need to be agreed upon prior to tearing the engine down. As do the terms of the contract. Labor only, cost plus on parts, or the full ream job. There are lots of ways to do an overhaul.
It depends, some yes, some no, some will charge you 10% on the parts you supply. The issue is most often about making a profit on the parts rather than parts quality.
gkainz
Final Approach
My/our maintenance experience in our club of 3 aircraft is we do as much owner maintenance as allowed by regs, up to and including annuals and engine changes (we don't rebuild), under supervision of a club A&P and an on-field A&P, so rarely do we just turn a plane over to a shop and say "fix it". These threads help with the "always learning" - thanks!
Tom-D
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Tom-D
What does all that have to do with trusting your A&P with your CC?
Tom-D
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Tom-D
How does your club finance your engine overhauls? do you do them in house or send them out to a overhaul shop?
It has to do with you needing to have it because you can't accept payment from it, and don't want to/can't float the bill. In Aus you would would call me, tell me you need $1500 to order parts, I would pop $1500 into your account over the Internet in 15 seconds for the cost of $1. Now the money is there for you to spend.
How it relates is by eliminating the issue with a better banking system.
JoseCuervo
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JoseCuervo
I would think most mechanics have to keep an eye on cash flow and timing of bills/receipts.
I would gladly pay for the parts with either a credit card on file, or an upfront cash deposit. I hate other people borrowing money to perform my work.
What is the ratio of Parts $$$ / Labour $$$ on an overhaul?
I would gladly pay for the parts with either a credit card on file, or an upfront cash deposit. I hate other people borrowing money to perform my work.
What is the ratio of Parts $$$ / Labour $$$ on an overhaul?