Engine out on take off? How do you plan for it?

Saw an amazing presentation at Oshkosh by Michael Church called "The possible turn." He demonstrated with video, failures and successes at turning back to the runway on engine out. He said the big problem on the turn is that most can make the turn but don't get back to the runway. His example scenario was 500' agl in a 172. He strongly advocated both Vx on takeoff (so you stayed over the runway longer and didn't have as far back to travel) and 45 degree banking turns when you commit to the decision (loss of altitude but tighter turn radius so less lost altitude). He was clear to state you need to practice at altitude in your aircraft to find out what your numbers are, meaning, what altitude do you land straight ahead, and when do you turn back. He said if you know your numbers, adjust for density altitude, etc prior to takeoff, and practice practice practice, you can make an engine out turn with confidence at a repeatable number. If you get a chance to see his presentation, I highly recommend it.
 
Thought about this one a bit leaving Gastons this weekend. 24 in and the opposite way out (6 of memory serves).

Anyway, I didn't poke the mixture back in far enough and thought- man! I hope this thing climbs a bit better or I'll be hanging this thing in a tree pretty soon.

Oh! Red knob! Much better.

Training for the worst. Hope for the best. But after you watch a few good friends lose their medical and ability to fly and you realize most pilots die looking up at the sky.
 
jsstevens said:
At my home airport I have surveyed the surrounding areas and have practiced (GASP!) the "impossible turn" to know when I have room to turn back (even if I land on the apron or taxiway) and when I don't.

At new airports (since I'm flying there anyway) I look around when in the pattern for landing to get an idea of what's possible. Google maps with satellite view is a good idea.

Frankly, at my home airport, I'm more worried about an engine failure as I'm tooling along at 1400' AGL for a few miles to get out from under the Class B shelf of Orlando International. There's a lot of urban clutter and not a lot of landing spots.
Click to expand...

Just copy the above for me.

We also have the STOL kit working for us in the 182, so if a flat-ish open spot can be made, it can be landed upon very very slow as long as you manage the sink rate and there's enough distance and time to get the flaps all the way down.

The killer is the takeoff loss of power into a stall/spin. Get the nose DOWN and maintain airspeed first. Then if you've briefed properly you know the options and if you didn't, you're looking at them. Pick one and land.
 
jkaduk said:
For something that is statistically unlikely to happen during your entire flying career? I suppose if I had all the other aspects to flying nailed and had nothing better to do.
Click to expand...
I think I've "failed" the engine on my students every lesson. Better to prepared than unprepared in the unlikely event of an engine failure.
 
I brief the engine loss before every departure. Sometimes the brief is "if I loose the engine I'm going to have a really bad day". I agree with the poster who said we worry about it more than we ought. Pilots mostly don't die form engines seizing up, they're amazingly robust for things designed in the 1950s. Pilots die from flying into bad weather, running out of gas and showing off to folks on the ground.
 
I have a passenger briefing card that addresses this and I read it to myself before takeoff as well. It has blanks for which direction we are taking off and which direction we are turning so the passenger will know what's coming. As for engine out it says we land straight ahead below 800 feet and turn back above that. I include we will turn into any crosswind to keep us close to the airport and aid us getting to the runway. In calm air I will turn towards the taxiway.
 
jordane93 said:
I think I've "failed" the engine on my students every lesson. Better to prepared than unprepared in the unlikely event of an engine failure.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about the 500' "possible turn". Certainly one should be proficient at what to do if the engine quits after takeoff. I just don't plan on using Michael Church's technique described above that is unlikely to ever be needed and will kill you if you blow it.
 
Where I live you're far more likely to survive the off-field landing into a, well, field, then the turn. Too easy to get slow and uncoordinated. Decided a long time ago that if the chips are down the airplane belongs to the insurance company. I'll walk away and buy another.
 
I've had a few mag failures (long story) that manifested themselves right after takeoff, but there was enough power to limp back to the runway.
I've had one engine failure where I've done the "impossible turn." Actually I was about 600' and clean and it was more than possible. Straight ahead was not an option. As I lined up to make the airport access road (a 180 degree turn but fortunately parallel to the runway by about 1/2 mile) I realized I could make the runway again.
 
steingar said:
Where I live you're far more likely to survive the off-field landing into a, well, field, then the turn. Too easy to get slow and uncoordinated. Decided a long time ago that if the chips are down the airplane belongs to the insurance company. I'll walk away and buy another.
Click to expand...

And that is exactly the kind of knowledge you should have with your home airport.

At KORL, from runway 7 there's a lake and an overpass to possibly land on. But to be low enough for those you must have really messed up the takeoff or have terrible performance that day. I'm usually above 500' when I reach the airport fence. From 25 it's uglier. The 408 expressway is not great but possible. Otherwise it's businesses, houses and narrow streets. But again, unless it's a bad performance day, I'll be around 500' AGL by the fence. Any failure under 200' AGL goes back in the runway. (C-172 here)

John
 
When you don't think about engine failures, (Even though it's unlikely to happen) and at least practiced what to do if it does happen to you the shock is going to throw you off a bit but if you never practiced it....It's going to take more valuable time to do what needs to be done. When taking off I think about it and I know exactly what I'm going to do if it happens, (IMO) being prepared ahead of time will help in the long run.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top