Engine out at night

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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Studying for commercial while waiting for the ink to dry on my IR cert and there's a question about what to do if the engine quits at night.

The recommendation is land in an unlit area.
I would think one would want to opt for a road versus a black hole.

Why would I choose an unlit area versus a road? I would imagine taking my chances with power lines would be better odds than tree trunks that I can't see.

What say the POAnut Gallery?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Studying for commercial while waiting for the ink to dry on my IR cert and there's a question about what to do if the engine quits at night.

The recommendation is land in an unlit area.
I would think one would want to opt for a road versus a black hole.

Why would I choose an unlit area versus a road? I would imagine taking my chances with power lines would be better odds than tree trunks that I can't see.

What say the POAnut Gallery?
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Roads are laced with wires that you won't be able to see.
 
Lindberg said:
Roads are laced with wires that you won't be able to see.
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And black holes are oftentimes laced with trees, hay bails, sloping terrain and various other obstacles. I’d take my chances with something that’s lit up, wires or not.
 
RyanB said:
And black holes are oftentimes laced with trees, hay bails, sloping terrain and various other obstacles. I’d take my chances at something that’s lit up, wires or not.
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That was my thought.
 
RyanB said:
And black holes are oftentimes laced with trees, hay bails, sloping terrain and various other obstacles. I’d take my chances with something that’s lit up, wires or not.
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And roads are also laced with cars. Landing on a road at night is an opportunity to participate in a plane crash and an automobile crash simultaneously.
 
Depends a lot on the terrain you're over. Around here, a dark area will be a field. You can guess where the power lines are by looking at the houses, all of which will have a night light. There are no trees to speak of, except around houses. You might get unlucky and hit a drainage ditch, but that's about as likely as your engine failing in the first place...

In a wooded area, I agree a road would be preferable. I think the main idea is to avoid built up areas. Roadways are generally only lit near urban areas.
 
Half Fast said:
And roads are also laced with cars. Landing on a road at night is an opportunity to participate in a plane crash and an automobile crash simultaneously.
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Far too many if’s, and’s or but’s to a hypothetical like this, but generally speaking, there’s usually fewer cars moving about at night, so I’d think a roadway would still be the safest option.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
…The recommendation is land in an unlit area…
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I tend to think of this kind of question as a strategy question, not a tactic question.

Not all roads are lit. Take a step back and focus on the word area. What do you associate with areas that are lit at night? I associate that with built up areas…places people are. Unlit areas tend to be less built up and less populated.

Sometimes it boils down to what’s safest for the public and you putting a glider down in a less populated area is a safer recommendation from the government than telling you to aim for more populated areas.
 
I hate flying at night. I've got plenty of hours, but if I can avoid a night flight, I do. Personally, I think I'd be opting for a road if possible.
 
You have to think about it from a liability perspective. Any unlit area as a real slim chance to cause damage to anyone or anything on the ground. Situations like this the FAA and insurance companies your loss of life is more acceptable than some poor lonely wife sleeping in her bed and having you crash through the roof. The family is gonna sue anyone possible. If it’s just you, you’re an acceptable loss.
 
If I'm flying in the Michigan thumb area (think endless farmland), I'm aiming for the dark spot. If I'm flying in the wilds of Michigan's upper peninsula, I'm going for the lit area (if there even is one). Some urban areas...good luck finding a dark spot.
 
TommyG said:
You have to think about it from a liability perspective. Any unlit area as a real slim chance to cause damage to anyone or anything on the ground. Situations like this the FAA and insurance companies your loss of life is more acceptable than some poor lonely wife sleeping in her bed and having you crash through the roof. The family is gonna sue anyone possible. If it’s just you, you’re an acceptable loss.
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Yep. That recommendation has nothing to do with what’s best for you.
 
Lights are made by people, who might not appreciate being landed upon. People often build obstructions. Here black holes are likely to be fields. Could be forests too, hard to tell at night. You takes your chances...
 
Bill said:
In this area anything that is a black hole is likely to be forested and/or mountainous. I choose not to fly at night.
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Where I am its more likely to be fields. I wouldn't claim to fly at night all the time, but I'm not terribly put off it.
 
tawood said:
If I'm flying in the Michigan thumb area (think endless farmland), I'm aiming for the dark spot. If I'm flying in the wilds of Michigan's upper peninsula, I'm going for the lit area (if there even is one). Some urban areas...good luck finding a dark spot.
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Depending how much moonlight there is, the lighter dark spots are open fields, and the darker dark spots are trees. Of course there's always the option of water too.
 
If you land on a road, which is partially clear but with some obstacles, there's a good chance of hitting one wingtip, then spinning around and plunging straight to the ground. If you go down in trees, if you're lucky you'll hit multiple trees which may absorb more energy so the final impact with the ground, if you reach the ground at skill, may not be as abrupt.
 
Dana said:
if you're lucky you'll hit multiple trees which may absorb more energy so the final impact with the ground, if you reach the ground at skill, may not be as abrupt.
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Trees in flat lands would be a good bet, but trees on a side hill is not.
 
I don’t fly at night for this reason… however when I have I tried flying freeways as they are wide and in rural areas not busy- but enough headlights to have a guess where they are….

I fully accept the risks of flight, I’m no longer willing to accept the risks of flight at night for recreational purposes which is my missions…
 
In rural areas, I would aim for the road. In densely populated areas, I would aim for the dark spot. Here's why. Rural roads have fewer obstcales and less traffic. In populated areas, even if the road looks empty, you may have many obstcales such as traffic lights, overpasses etc.. If you put it down in trees in a densely populated area, you are more likely to be found and rescued. In a rural area, you may not be found for months.
 
My take is responsibility. You are responsible for being up there and an engine out at night has few great outcomes. The odds are high you’re going to die. Don’t kill others doing it. You might get lucky and find water instead of a forest.

What are the statistics on engine loss of power that aren't fuel?
 
bflynn said:
My take is responsibility. You are responsible for being up there and an engine out at night has few great outcomes. The odds are high you’re going to die. Don’t kill others doing it. You might get lucky and find water instead of a forest.

What are the statistics on engine loss of power that aren't fuel?
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Really? What are the actual statistics on fatalities in night engine failures? I'm not convinced they are > 50% fatality rate.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
...What say the POAnut Gallery?
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I say there comes a time, maybe after your 1st, 4th, maybe 12th FAA written, that you learn to answer their questions with their answers then go about yer bidness. it's an FAA written for cryin' out loud, not the real world. learn their questions/answers, take the test, then move on to making your own big boy decisions.
 
Half Fast said:
And roads are also laced with cars. Landing on a road at night is an opportunity to participate in a plane crash and an automobile crash simultaneously.
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Accomplished at night not far from me by a fairly new commercial pilot last year. At first glance no major damage to the ship, but later inspection revealed serious damage where the left main hit a Toyota Tercel. So lots of metal bent - Tercel may have been totaled - you judge whether or not that was a good thing. No one hurt, three aboard one in the auto. No they did not run out of gas.
 
The DPE that gave me my CFI check ride told me no matter what, fly it in slow and under control. If that dark spot is trees, flying it in to the tops under control is going to hurt, but it gives a decent chance of surviving. He’s managed to survive 18000+ hours of dual given, so it’s hard to argue with him.
 
bflynn said:
What are the statistics on engine loss of power that aren't fuel?
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There are none. No one counts the engine failures (fuel or not) that don't end up resulting in significant damage or injuries. You land, you fix the aircraft, you take off. Done. No paperwork required (other than the log entry).
 
snglecoil said:
The DPE that gave me my CFI check ride told me no matter what, fly it in slow and under control. If that dark spot is trees, flying it in to the tops under control is going to hurt, but it gives a decent chance of surviving. He’s managed to survive 18000+ hours of dual given, so it’s hard to argue with him.
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18000 hours of dual, but how many engine outs at night?
 
In good glide range to an airport? Land there. If not, "chute!" :D

And be prepared to pull if at 2,000' AGL if it looks like we don't have the glide range to make the runway.
 
That is a question I hope I never have to answer.
 
My last flight was at night. Enjoyed it thoroughly. Much smoother than it would have been during the day.

Flying while stressed is not a good thing. Flying while stressed can lead to unsafe operations. If flying at night stresses you out, don't do it, it can lead to unsafe operations.
 
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