Electric Rates - What are we Paying?

[SCCutler]

The discussion of electric cars and all that made me wonder: What kind of electric rates are we paying out there?

I know Jesse gets some stupidly low rate like $0.06/ kWh; since we have competing providers here, if you shop aggressively and time well, you can get as low as $0.078/kWh or so; but pretty much the best you can do for a one year contract (gotta do that , or you're renewing as the summer begins, an OMG rate, and we use about 80% of the energy in the summer months).

I am at $0.079/kWh for the next year.

I have seen rates in California that curl my toes to read - including some amazing social engineering factors that massively escalate the rate based upon usage; I remember gas rates did that there, even when I lived there. A cold snap triggered higher usage for heat, and the rates were by law profoundly higher, so although I only used about twice as much gas, the amount I had to pay went up by a much, much larger multiplier. It was foul, because there was no adjustment based upon weather.

 

[Clark1961]

there are so many fees and surcharges here that one needs a degree in forensic accounting to figure out the effective rate... (only a small joke)

Here's last month:

ELECTRICITY CHARGES RATE: R Residential General
DESCRIPTION USAGE UNITS RATE CHARGE
Service & Facility $6.75
Non-Summer 516.86 kWh $0.046040 $23.79
Summer Tier 1* 71.43 kWh $0.046040 $3.29
Summer Tier 2* 14.71 kWh $0.090000 $1.32
Trans Cost Adj 603 kWh $0.001060 $0.64
Elec Commodity Adj 86.14 kWh $0.035930 $3.10
Elec Commodity Adj 516.86 kWh $0.034330 $17.74
Demand Side Mgmt Cost 603 kWh $0.002390 $1.44
Purch Cap Cost Adj 603 kWh $0.006380 $3.85
Renew. Energy Std Adj $1.34
GRSA $4.83
Subtotal $68.09
Franchise Fee 3.00% $2.04
Sales Tax $2.45
Total $72.58

On a gross basis I'm paying $0.12/Kwhr

 

[Anthony]

$8.5 - $.12/kwh depending on provider here in PA. My concern is that they have installed mandatory "Smart Meters". I told them I didn't want one, and the power company (PECO) threatened to turn off my service. These smart meters allow the power company to virtually see into your home, and determine where, and when you are using electricity, and if your electric usage is "irresponsible", then charge punitive rates based upon THEIR notion of proper usage. Talk about BIG Brother!

They are also pushing a program where they can arbirtrarily curtail service during peak demand, again through the smart meters. So when you need your air conditioning the most, during the hottest summer days, they can shut you down. Look for this program to go from voluntary to MANDATORY if you want to keep electric service.

 

[kgruber]

Grant County WA

MONTHLY BILLING RATE: The Customer's monthly billing will consist of a basic charge, an energy charge and a minimum charge as set forth below:

Basic Charge: $0.46 per day

Energy Charge: $0.04334 per kWh

Minimum Charge: $20.00 per Month

 

[Everskyward]

I have seen rates in California that curl my toes to read - including some amazing social engineering factors that massively escalate the rate based upon usage; I remember gas rates did that there, even when I lived there. A cold snap triggered higher usage for heat, and the rates were by law profoundly higher, so although I only used about twice as much gas, the amount I had to pay went up by a much, much larger multiplier. It was foul, because there was no adjustment based upon weather.

Must depend where you are in California because I have never seen a gas and electric (combined) bill for the condo that is over $20/month, and I have been managing these bills for over 5 years. Sometimes it's zero because of some energy rebate.

 

[Geico266]

I'm on Jesse's grid.

 

[Bill]

$7.50 service charge + 0.0939/kWh.

So much for TVA providing cheap power.

 

[EppyGA]

$8.5 - $.12/kwh depending on provider here in PA. My concern is that they have installed mandatory "Smart Meters". I told them I didn't want one, and the power company (PECO) threatened to turn off my service. These smart meters allow the power company to virtually see into your home, and determine where, and when you are using electricity, and if your electric usage is "irresponsible", then charge punitive rates based upon THEIR notion of proper usage. Talk about BIG Brother!

They are also pushing a program where they can arbirtrarily curtail service during peak demand, again through the smart meters. So when you need your air conditioning the most, during the hottest summer days, they can shut you down. Look for this program to go from voluntary to MANDATORY if you want to keep electric service.

I had a switch on my air conditioning compressor at my last house with the local cooperative. Never noticed a difference inside the house but I did get a rebate check every year.

 

[jesse]

I just checked our current rates:

$11.15/mo + $0.07 kw/h

If you exceed 30 kw/h per day then its $0.05 kw/h

Those are winter rates. Summer is much less of a good deal at $0.09 kw/h.

Used to be significantly less costly.

 

[TheTraveler]

Around $0.12 here in NW Indiana/SE Chicago.

 

[EdFred]

Adding in all the taxes and socialization fees last month I was at $0.1515/kWh

$.0882/kWh was for the actual electricity.
The remainder was for "security", access, distribution, and paying for poor people to sit on their ass and watch TV at home.

 

[SCCutler]

Must depend where you are in California because I have never seen a gas and electric (combined) bill for the condo that is over $20/month, and I have been managing these bills for over 5 years. Sometimes it's zero because of some energy rebate.

This was in SoCal; may be Very Different up north.

 

[EdFred]

$8.5 - $.12/kwh depending on provider here in PA. My concern is that they have installed mandatory "Smart Meters". I told them I didn't want one, and the power company (PECO) threatened to turn off my service. These smart meters allow the power company to virtually see into your home, and determine where, and when you are using electricity, and if your electric usage is "irresponsible", then charge punitive rates based upon THEIR notion of proper usage. Talk about BIG Brother!

There's ways around that. Takes a bit of wiring, but you can have all the usage look exactly the same.

 

[bnt83]

I just checked our current rates:

$11.15/mo + $0.07 kw/h

If you exceed 30 kw/h per day then its $0.05 kw/h

Those are winter rates. Summer is much less of a good deal at $0.09 kw/h.

Used to be significantly less costly.

All electric in my apartment and the highest I've ever seen was around $80 and as low as $40.

 

[jesse]

All electric in my apartment and the highest I've ever seen was around $80 and as low as $40.

I think my highest ever was around $170 in the peak of the summer but I am in no way conservative with my electricity usage. I keep the AC set at 68 degrees.

 

[Henning]

$7.50 service charge + 0.0939/kWh.

So much for TVA providing cheap power.

Look what happened to TVA, it was given over to private enterprise to operate, plus you are looking at the cost of operating 80 year old infrastructure. Stuff needs replacing. It was still all a good investment and was necessary in the development of nuclear energy. Without those dams, the Manhattan project would not have been possible.

 

[Henning]

Smart Meters work both ways, if you get an electricity storage system, at this point a battery bank and an inverter, you can buy your electricity during the cheap cycle time and use it during the expensive cycle time.

 

[Badger]

my last bill was $32.
$19 for electric (170 kwh @ .10988) and the rest was misc charges.

 

[Gerhardt]

9 cents per kilowatt hour for the first 750 kilowatt hours used, about 12 cents for the next 1,250 kilowatt hours and about 13 cents per kilowatt hour for energy usage more than 2,000 kilowatt hours.

 

[eetrojan]

This was in SoCal; may be Very Different up north.

I'm jealous of anybody paying $0.04/kWh.

I live in SoCal and, for unknown reasons, my SCE bill is broken into two halves, one for "delivery" and one for "generation." Each half contains progressively more expensive "tiers" 1 to 4 that, if combined, are about $0.15/kWh (first 301 kWh), $0.19/kWh (next 90 kWh), $0.28/kWh (next 211 kWh), and $0.32/kWh (the rest).

My latest bill for a small house with gas powered stove and water heater, 2 TVs, one fridge, 2 PCs, and no AC:

kWh: 818
Cost: $191.32

Avg cost if all tiers are squished together: $0.24/kWh

 

[bnt83]

I think my highest ever was around $170 in the peak of the summer but I am in no way conservative with my electricity usage. I keep the AC set at 68 degrees.

I wouldn't mind moving to spot with a patio and more natural light (more windows) but really, I just need to spend more time at the airport which probably costs less.

 

[Bill]

plus you are looking at the cost of operating 80 year old infrastructure.

That, re-fueling nuke plants, and cleaning up this mess:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly_ash_slurry_spill

Our rates went up not long after that. (go figure)

It was still all a good investment and was necessary in the development of nuclear energy. Without those dams, the Manhattan project would not have been possible.

No doubt, the whole purpose of the TVA system was to send power to Oak Ridge for the enrichment of uranium.

 

[StinkBug]

All I know is that adding solar panels to my roof has been totally worth it. My house is all electric, and I have a workshop behind it with more footage than the house filled with welding and machining equipment that suck down the juice. Averaged over a whole year my power bill used to be about $250/month. Added 4 big panels to the roof and the highest I've seen it since has been $15. Even when you add the $85/month payment for the panels I'm paying less than half what I did before.

 

[SCCutler]

All I know is that adding solar panels to my roof has been totally worth it. My house is all electric, and I have a workshop behind it with more footage than the house filled with welding and machining equipment that suck down the juice. Averaged over a whole year my power bill used to be about $250/month. Added 4 big panels to the roof and the highest I've seen it since has been $15. Even when you add the $85/month payment for the panels I'm paying less than half what I did before.

How much was the tax credit?

 

[Henning]

I'm jealous of anybody paying $0.04/kWh.

I live in SoCal and, for unknown reasons, my SCE bill is broken into two halves, one for "delivery" and one for "generation." Each half contains progressively more expensive "tiers" 1 to 4 that, if combined, are about $0.15/kWh (first 301 kWh), $0.19/kWh (next 90 kWh), $0.28/kWh (next 211 kWh), and $0.32/kWh (the rest).

My latest bill for a small house with gas powered stove and water heater, 2 TVs, one fridge, 2 PCs, and no AC:

kWh: 818
Cost: $191.32

Avg cost if all tiers are squished together: $0.24/kWh

It's not a mystery as to why it's broke down. The generator is owned by a different company than the transmission wires. You can thank Ken Lay and the Bush family for the energy mess you are in, this is all a direct result of Enron and the White House going to bat for them in deregulation.

The system is supposed to function so you can contract the electricity into the grid from any provider you want. So say you want to promote wind energy, or fuel cell energy, or nuclear energy, or just want to shop for the cheapest price provider. They then put that juice into the grid as per the contract. At that point your contract with the provider is complete. It also opens up opportunity for smaller, higher cost, providers to get a market for their electricity by providing peaking capacity when required and top rates are being paid. Again, though, the contract is complete when the power leaves the facility.

The transmission fee is what you pay to the company(ies)that delivers the power to your meter.

When I lived in CA we had Public Utilities that were regulated by public authority as to how much they could charge over cost. Utility bills in the late 80s and early 90s were low and the infrastructure for all the gas and electric services in the region were all through PG&E, SDG&E... Everything was 'in house' and top management made G-xx top management type compensation. Then they got it deregulated so now there are all the big dollar energy executive compensation and corporate earnings burdens placed on the system, and that is why your energy costs in CA are out of control, you invited the vampires in the door. One thing though, California added a few more big yachts for me to work.

 

[LauraE51]

i'm jealous.

In N. CA, (Modesto), re receive electricity through an irrigation district (lots of hydro power).

Winter Rates
Fixed: $12.50
First 500 kWh: 0.1368/kwh
Over 500Kwh: 0.1469

 

[Ted]

$8.5 - $.12/kwh depending on provider here in PA. My concern is that they have installed mandatory "Smart Meters". I told them I didn't want one, and the power company (PECO) threatened to turn off my service. These smart meters allow the power company to virtually see into your home, and determine where, and when you are using electricity, and if your electric usage is "irresponsible", then charge punitive rates based upon THEIR notion of proper usage. Talk about BIG Brother!

They are also pushing a program where they can arbirtrarily curtail service during peak demand, again through the smart meters. So when you need your air conditioning the most, during the hottest summer days, they can shut you down. Look for this program to go from voluntary to MANDATORY if you want to keep electric service.

Have you considered switching to an off-grid arrangement?

 

[pilot_dude]

Our seasonal rates:

Summer $0.10026/kWh
Winter $0.09727/kWh
Transition period $0.09542/kWh
TVA adjustment $0.048/kWh

 

[eetrojan]

***

The system is supposed to function so you can contract the electricity into the grid from any provider you want. So say you want to promote wind energy, or fuel cell energy, or nuclear energy, or just want to shop for the cheapest price provider. They then put that juice into the grid as per the contract.

***

As far as I know, we do not have the option to contract with different generators of electrical power here in SoCal. Am I missing something?

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I have no idea what my usage is......the bill ranges from $180/mo to $300/mo for an all electric house.


....is that bad for a modest home of a family of Six?

 

[Gerhardt]

My electric bill averages around $100/mo or so. It's the gas bill that kills me. From Nov-Feb it's $500-700/mo, and that's keeping the thermostat at 65.

 

[Anthony]

Have you considered switching to an off-grid arrangement?

Do you mean solar panels? The payback is pretty long even with the credit.

 

[EdFred]

My electric bill averages around $100/mo or so. It's the gas bill that kills me. From Nov-Feb it's $500-700/mo, and that's keeping the thermostat at 65.

You need better windows/doors/insulation, etc...

In the winter, combined electric and gas I will be in the $200-$210 range for about 3 months, then dip back down to $100 in the summer. I have a programmable thermostat that takes me to 68 when it's M-F 7am-8am and 5pm -11pm and then drops to 62 for the other hours. On Saturday and Sunday it's 68 from 8am till 11pm

Big gas users:
Dryer, water heater, furnace

Big electric users:
Hot tub, stove/range

 

[N801BH]

2400 sq ft main house / 1200 sq ft shop... Power bill runs 48-58 a month year round.....

Most of that is the hot tub set at 113.2f....

 

[Henning]

As far as I know, we do not have the option to contract with different generators of electrical power here in SoCal. Am I missing something?

You are missing the difference in between how deregulation was sold to the voters and how it was implemented by Enron. These are our roll modes, our Market Leaders who are supposed to be providing for the best interest of society according to the pretense our economy operates under.

 

[Henning]

My electric bill averages around $100/mo or so. It's the gas bill that kills me. From Nov-Feb it's $500-700/mo, and that's keeping the thermostat at 65.

Do you live in some big, drafty, old house or something?

 

[Gerhardt]

You need better windows/doors/insulation, etc...

The house is 20 years old and tight as a drum. I'm not sure if this works into it, but it was originally set for a dual system, one for the upper level and another system for the main level and finished basement. The HVAC company talked me into installing one massive system. Said it would be less expensive and more efficient. I didn't see how that could be possible, but it's their area of expertise, not mine, so I said sure. The a/c unit is the size of a jet engine but the blower unit doesn't look much bigger than most. I'm heating around 36K cubic feet and you can't tell that the unit is on unless you hold your finger over the vent. There really is no draft coming from the vents - it's just a slow flow of air and seems like the unit is always running.

 

[Henning]

The house is 20 years old and tight as a drum. I'm not sure if this works into it, but it was originally set for a dual system, one for the upper level and another system for the main level and finished basement. The HVAC company talked me into installing one massive system. Said it would be less expensive and more efficient. I didn't see how that could be possible, but it's their area of expertise, not mine, so I said sure. The a/c unit is the size of a jet engine but the blower unit doesn't look much bigger than most. I'm heating around 36K cubic feet and you can't tell that the unit is on unless you hold your finger over the vent. There really is no draft coming from the vents - it's just a slow flow of air and seems like the unit is always running.

Something isn't right with your system, if you have a tight, modern, well insulated house, you shouldn't need near that much gas, even in that size house. Are you paying some astronomical rate for gas?

 

[sferguson524]

looks like we pay 12 cents/kwh here in vegas

 

[EdFred]

The house is 20 years old and tight as a drum. I'm not sure if this works into it, but it was originally set for a dual system, one for the upper level and another system for the main level and finished basement. The HVAC company talked me into installing one massive system. Said it would be less expensive and more efficient. I didn't see how that could be possible, but it's their area of expertise, not mine, so I said sure. The a/c unit is the size of a jet engine but the blower unit doesn't look much bigger than most. I'm heating around 36K cubic feet and you can't tell that the unit is on unless you hold your finger over the vent. There really is no draft coming from the vents - it's just a slow flow of air and seems like the unit is always running.

That is odd, because I'm in a 60 year old concrete block house that only has a sheet of pink foam insulation between the furring strips, and if I hold my hand near an electrical outlet, I can feel a draft. However I am only heating 1400sqft with 8' ceilings.