oldShar
Cleared for Takeoff
When I lived in Omaha, OPPD was charging me $0.099 per kwh
Here in Albuquerque, PNM is charging $0.132 per kwh
Here in Albuquerque, PNM is charging $0.132 per kwh
Electric Rates - What are we Paying?
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JHW
En-Route
you guys don't know how good you have it. the USA has a great combination of cheap generation rates and high population density to spread out the fixed costs
here is our last bill. This is for a 3-bedroom semi-detached with a heat pump and tank-type electric hot water.
This is an island about the size of south carolina that is 100% self-sufficient with hydro power. The problem is that there aren't enough people here to dilute the costs of the distribution lines.
here is our last bill. This is for a 3-bedroom semi-detached with a heat pump and tank-type electric hot water.
This is an island about the size of south carolina that is 100% self-sufficient with hydro power. The problem is that there aren't enough people here to dilute the costs of the distribution lines.
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momalley
Line Up and Wait
HOLY CRAP.......
.....
I hope that is dollars and not pounds...
Aussie Dollars, he's in Tassie. It's a lot, but he lives in a beautiful place for it though, and I'm pretty sure that's quarterly. He may be able to beat that on bottled gas as well with a household fuel cell. Population density is a double edged sword, it makes things cheap, but it makes everything ugly as well; people too.
JHW
En-Route
that's a 3-month bill in AUS dollarsHOLY CRAP....
I hope that is dollars and not pounds...
recently the AUS dollar has crashed, it's under $0.90 US
ColoPilot
Line Up and Wait
Our utility here has pushed the Smart meters too. Once you have a smart meter they can now charge you different rates on different days and between day and night. With a normal meter that is not possible. Of course that's not what they tell you. They say the smart meters help you save money and conserve power. Yea right......
They can, it all depends on if you take advantage or not. If they let you know what the billing rates are for the different periods, you can adjust your consumption model to take advantage of lower rate periods for intense consumption. Say if I have an evening project, I may delay welding to start after 9 to do it on cheaper electricity.
JHW
En-Route
that's the marketing spin. In the real world what they do is use the smart meter data to add on punitive fees for usage outside hours, and it's done in an unpredictable way such that you can't plan enough to escape them.
We had a smart meter and it was a disaster. I read up on the agreement and saw that if it was damaged, we had the option of choosing the type of replacement. After an unfortunate incident with a fallen tree limb in our yard, we got a plain old meter again and our rates dropped noticeably.
ColoPilot
Line Up and Wait
You are right, it might be cheaper if you can delay high energy activities (welding or the clothes dryer are good examples) until the cheaper rates. But having multiple peak/non-peak rates make understanding the energy cost less transparent for the average consumer -- especially when the rates are changing. For example, when our utility implemented tiered rates here (you pay one rate for the first X KW/h then a higher rate above that) they reduced the rates on the first tier and increased the rates on the second tier -- I think just to confuse everyone to the fact that it was a rate hike.
They do that to encourage conservation. "If you can keep your consumption below xxkW, you can have an extremely low electric bill."
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
Henning....how much was your last month's electric bill?
EppyGA
Touchdown! Greaser!
JHW
En-Route
nicely played, sir
the whole argument is a bit like you and i debating the merits of this or that type of dentistry equipment
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
I don't have one. I'll tell you what we were paying in Italy, €.227/kWh. You don't even want to know what it costs when I generate my own.
ron22
Cleared for Takeoff
Just the rate or all the other crap they add
Basic Service Chg $8.00
Energy Charge Winter $0.073930 per kWh
Fuel Cost Charge $0.025090 per kWh
Affordability Chrg $0.71
Resource Adjustment $3.80
Interim Rate Adj $4.34
Basic Service Chg $8.00
Energy Charge Winter $0.073930 per kWh
Fuel Cost Charge $0.025090 per kWh
Affordability Chrg $0.71
Resource Adjustment $3.80
Interim Rate Adj $4.34
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
rural west Texas, after shopping the state-provided website in which you can easily compare all providers ( http://www.powertochoose.org ) last summer, 9.7¢/kwh including all charges and fees.
1387kwh cost $134.76 last month
"The average price you paid this month for electric service is 9.70 cents per kWh; this price includes your Energy Charges, Customer Base Charge and Advanced
Metering Surcharge."
1387kwh cost $134.76 last month
"The average price you paid this month for electric service is 9.70 cents per kWh; this price includes your Energy Charges, Customer Base Charge and Advanced
Metering Surcharge."
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
Interestingly, during our last long power outage (5-14 days depending on location) people reported that their new smart meters had somehow registered power usage on each day that they were sitting in the cold and dark. (we can go online and look at individual days' use). Well, I guess that's one way to ensure revenue stream.
Texas got the model California was sold, problem is, Kaliforn-I-a ain't TX, and while Enron couldn't mess with Texas, they were sure allowed to **** California.
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
Solar panels, wind power, or gasoline/diesel are all options for off-grid. Usually there's a combination of the three of them with some sort of battery pack for holding the electricity. One friend of mine is completely off-grid and loves it. One other alternative to the battery back in this case is that you basically use the grid as your battery. They're required to buy power that you generate, so you can produce it and make your meter run backwards.
My point was that since you are (understandably) dissatisfied with the power company, it might be something to consider. They need to feel the pain of money not going in to change.
We are considering putting solar panels on as a project next spring to cover the rest of the roof. I doubt if we'd do a windmill, though.
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
We have a lot of folks miles from the grid (and thousands of feet above the nearest aquifer) here and many have perfected home-grown electric and water supplies.
I understand solar/battery is now capable of powering refrigerators which used to be unheard of. Still not enough to power central a/c though.
I understand solar/battery is now capable of powering refrigerators which used to be unheard of. Still not enough to power central a/c though.
JHW
En-Route
In case anyone is interested in what off-grid looks like for someone who isn't a hippie living in a VW bus - this is Privett's place in Natal Province, South Africa. The utility poles connect his windmill generator on the hill, to his switchgear and battery bank that live with the diesel generator in the grey building near the big tree on the far left. The large grey building in the middle is for farm machinery. The main hangar and some tee-shade hangars are out of the picture around the hill to the right. In the picture the main house is at the rear, in-law and guest houses at the right, and farmhand bunkhouse is in the foreground. There is a water tower obscured by the tree by the bunkhouse.
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Propane fuel cell is now an option as well, and besides being 3 times as efficient as turning a little generator (if not more) it also delivers you hot water. If they have to buy at a decent rate, and you can buy cheap gas, you can make money with one.
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cessna182b
Line Up and Wait
I'm jealous of anybody paying $0.04/kWh.
I live in SoCal and, for unknown reasons, my SCE bill is broken into two halves, one for "delivery" and one for "generation." Each half contains progressively more expensive "tiers" 1 to 4 that, if combined, are about $0.15/kWh (first 301 kWh), $0.19/kWh (next 90 kWh), $0.28/kWh (next 211 kWh), and $0.32/kWh (the rest).
My latest bill for a small house with gas powered stove and water heater, 2 TVs, one fridge, 2 PCs, and no AC:
kWh: 818
Cost: $191.32
Avg cost if all tiers are squished together: $0.24/kWh
I wonder what is sucking up all that juice? My situation (and rates) are pretty much identical to yours. Yet my current bill from SCE shows consumption of 196 kWh for a total bill of $30.07. I am in Tier 1 - and don't make any special effort to reduce my power usage.
Dave
Edit: After thinking about it, I'm willing to bet that you have an electric dryer. Those things are the biggest power hogs in your house (unless you have an electric pool heater). My dryer is gas. Current gas bill is $26 and change - but will be around $100 in the coldest months.
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eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
1600watts of grow lights in the guest room running 18 hours a day.. .
No. That's not it. I tap power from the street lamp for that room.
No. That's not it. I tap power from the street lamp for that room.
I had the communal laundry room on the other side of my big walk in closet with the electric dryers on the other side of the wall.
BTW, love your avatar.
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ARFlyer
En-Route
I think I have you all beat on the energy rates.
Current months bill:
425 kWh @ $0.01566 - $6.66
Customer Charge - $6.96
Energy Charge - $31.44
Total Metered Charges $45.06
Ice Storm Recovery - $.42
I have no idea what goes into the customer charge.
Figured out the energy charge.
Base under 1000kWh is $ .052227 kWh
So I'm still lower then Jesse.
Current months bill:
425 kWh @ $0.01566 - $6.66
Customer Charge - $6.96
Energy Charge - $31.44
Total Metered Charges $45.06
Ice Storm Recovery - $.42
I have no idea what goes into the customer charge.
Figured out the energy charge.
Base under 1000kWh is $ .052227 kWh
So I'm still lower then Jesse.
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denverpilot
Tied Down
Spike got me curious...
$.12310/KWh all year long
$10 monthly flat service fee
No other goofy laundry list of fees like the other Colorado folk on Xcel, since we're on the co-op.
Capital refund each March of anywhere from $30-$200 depending on amount of damage to outside plant and expenditures... again, since it's a co-op.
(Last year they did a lot of maintenance so only $30 back. Previous years it has been higher. Usually about two months worth of rebate most years.)
Highest month: Jan 2014. Huge cold snap. Furnace never shut off for most of the month and we had multiple electric heaters protecting bathrooms from freezing and one warming the master bedroom at night in the basement due to airflow problems with the old furnace. The pellet stove also went down for maintenance.
1300 KWh.
Lowest this year: Aug 18-Sep 17 2014, 524 KWh.
We've since replaced the furnace with a much stronger and more efficient unit with DC variable speed blower. Still have duct problems but house is now livable in all rooms without space heaters.
No particular concerns about basement bathroom outside wall pipes freezing anymore either other than below -10F.
New furnace is doing its thing. We have it programmed to run the blower on low 24/7 to continuously rotate air and even out the house, and up to
medium speed at night to make sure to mix upstairs and downstairs adequately.
Blower falls back to "most efficient speed" whenever the variable burner is burning which is almost never above 40% heat, so the fan drops back to very low during heating and actually ramps up a bit when not heating.
I think once we figure out the ducting issue(s) and rework those, we'll just go for low fan all the time.
But we've already seen two bills with the fan going 24/7 and they're lower than comparable temperature months in previous years. That motor is really efficient.
Propane: Have seen it anywhere from $1.90/gal to $3.10/gal at the peak a couple years ago. Have considered upgrading to an owner owned 1000 gallon tank vs a 500 gallon leased tank to both not be stuck purchasing from a single source provider and also to fill it annually at the cheapest time of year (usually late summer). Typical usage is 750 gallons annually. Gas water heaters (two), and gas furnace and clothes dryer, gas stove, electric oven.
Pellet stove: MX done this summer. Have only fired it up once this fall/winter and that was during the last couple of weeks when the cold snap of -9F or so at night came through, and honestly we didn't need it. Was more a "cheerful fire" thing than actually cold. Have a full pallet of pellets from
last year, haven't priced them
this year. Propane is the lowest in three winter seasons here, so I doubt burning compressed tree sawdust will be more cost effective this winter over propane, which was not true two winters ago.
Vehicle fuel costs are a significantly bigger percentage of the energy budget living in the country though. I've put $2600 worth of diesel through the truck (including multiple trips pulling the 12K trailer including OSH and back with a blown head gasket - heh) since I bought it.
$.12310/KWh all year long
$10 monthly flat service fee
No other goofy laundry list of fees like the other Colorado folk on Xcel, since we're on the co-op.
Capital refund each March of anywhere from $30-$200 depending on amount of damage to outside plant and expenditures... again, since it's a co-op.
(Last year they did a lot of maintenance so only $30 back. Previous years it has been higher. Usually about two months worth of rebate most years.)
Highest month: Jan 2014. Huge cold snap. Furnace never shut off for most of the month and we had multiple electric heaters protecting bathrooms from freezing and one warming the master bedroom at night in the basement due to airflow problems with the old furnace. The pellet stove also went down for maintenance.
1300 KWh.
Lowest this year: Aug 18-Sep 17 2014, 524 KWh.
We've since replaced the furnace with a much stronger and more efficient unit with DC variable speed blower. Still have duct problems but house is now livable in all rooms without space heaters.
No particular concerns about basement bathroom outside wall pipes freezing anymore either other than below -10F.
New furnace is doing its thing. We have it programmed to run the blower on low 24/7 to continuously rotate air and even out the house, and up to
medium speed at night to make sure to mix upstairs and downstairs adequately.
Blower falls back to "most efficient speed" whenever the variable burner is burning which is almost never above 40% heat, so the fan drops back to very low during heating and actually ramps up a bit when not heating.
I think once we figure out the ducting issue(s) and rework those, we'll just go for low fan all the time.
But we've already seen two bills with the fan going 24/7 and they're lower than comparable temperature months in previous years. That motor is really efficient.
Propane: Have seen it anywhere from $1.90/gal to $3.10/gal at the peak a couple years ago. Have considered upgrading to an owner owned 1000 gallon tank vs a 500 gallon leased tank to both not be stuck purchasing from a single source provider and also to fill it annually at the cheapest time of year (usually late summer). Typical usage is 750 gallons annually. Gas water heaters (two), and gas furnace and clothes dryer, gas stove, electric oven.
Pellet stove: MX done this summer. Have only fired it up once this fall/winter and that was during the last couple of weeks when the cold snap of -9F or so at night came through, and honestly we didn't need it. Was more a "cheerful fire" thing than actually cold. Have a full pallet of pellets from
last year, haven't priced them
this year. Propane is the lowest in three winter seasons here, so I doubt burning compressed tree sawdust will be more cost effective this winter over propane, which was not true two winters ago.
Vehicle fuel costs are a significantly bigger percentage of the energy budget living in the country though. I've put $2600 worth of diesel through the truck (including multiple trips pulling the 12K trailer including OSH and back with a blown head gasket - heh) since I bought it.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
0.047/KW generation
0.030/KW fuel
0.0395/KW transmission
0.0338/KW distribution
0.0007 sales and use surcharge
Net: $0.151/KWh
Add taxes of 6.25%
each component of the rate varies differently - the rates above based on about 650 KWh consumption.
0.030/KW fuel
0.0395/KW transmission
0.0338/KW distribution
0.0007 sales and use surcharge
Net: $0.151/KWh
Add taxes of 6.25%
each component of the rate varies differently - the rates above based on about 650 KWh consumption.
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
Not at all true, as Jeff points out. It's all in how much generation capacity you build and how efficient you make your house. In PA, I could have been 100% off-grid pretty easily.
I'd mainly look at a supplemental power here in Ohio, though.
eetrojan
Pattern Altitude
Nope, it's gas too. Just double checked. I want your bill!
azure
Final Approach
Here in VT: my latest bill was $57.67 for 416 kWh, which comes to $0.01385/kWh. The month before that the rate came to $0.1395/kWh. The rate does apparently vary through the year, but I don't know yet whether they add on punitive charges for "excess" use. The biller is the town, not the electric utility itself, and they don't publish electric rates anywhere (that I've found anyway), so my only info is from the bill.
Compare that to MI, where my summer rate was $.069/kWh -- so about twice as expensive in VT. With the polar vortex in place now, it will be interesting to see whether they up the rate for this month based on increased usage (baseboard heat).
Compare that to MI, where my summer rate was $.069/kWh -- so about twice as expensive in VT. With the polar vortex in place now, it will be interesting to see whether they up the rate for this month based on increased usage (baseboard heat).
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kgruber
Final Approach
I have an acquaintance in Settle with a 120 year old house. When he moved in 40 years ago there was a capped off pipe sticking through the wall in his basement.
Turned out is was an unmetered natural gas bonanza.
Turned out is was an unmetered natural gas bonanza.
JHW
En-Route
in our neighborhood in central illinois, people drive a pipe into the ground a few hundred feet and hook it to their furnace
cessna182b
Line Up and Wait
I'd investigate the matter if I were you. There must be an explanation. One thing I do to conserve energy is to keep the thermostat set to 65 most of the time. That keeps the furnace from running except on cold nights. The furnace is gas, but does have an electric blower. I have a gas radiant heater installed in my fireplace that we use when needed (in the evening Nov-March, mostly). That unit keeps the part of the house we use the most comfy.
As an aside, when my daughter visits at Christmas, she uses an electric heater most of the time. Yet she has chosen to live in Boston. Go figure!
BTW: my "Location" is not as shown. Now Santa Barbara. Never got around to changing it.
Dave