Egyptian A320 missing

Bonchie

Bonchie

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Bonchie
News networks are doing their typical hysteria thing. CNN probably has a counter going already.

37k feet when they lost radar on it over the Mediterranean.
 
Who's airspace was it? Might narrow it down to a short list of actors.
 
Losing radar contact at 37k feet would mean that the plane broke up, correct? Or could it have nosedived into the ground and a controller didn't notice the dive until disappeared? RIP.

Article says there were 56 passengers onboard, that like 1/3 capacity. Foreign airlines make the flight regradless of number of passengers. US airlines would find a reason to cancel the flight if it was less than 3/4 full.
 
Plane at 37K dropped to 20K then lost radar at 10K. Seems it made some unusual maneauvers prior to losing radar. News saying a right 90 degree turn then a left 360 then lost contact. Speculations runs rampant
 
orange said:
Article says there were 56 passengers onboard, that like 1/3 capacity. Foreign airlines make the flight regradless of number of passengers. US airlines would find a reason to cancel the flight if it was less than 3/4 full.
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Not that it's relevant to the discussion, but that statement is BS... US Airlines don't cancel flights because they aren't full.
 
JCranford said:
Plane at 37K dropped to 20K then lost radar at 10K. Seems it made some unusual maneauvers prior to losing radar. News saying a right 90 degree turn then a left 360 then lost contact. Speculations runs rampant
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Do they have time and speed information to go with the altitude data? It could paint a slightly bigger picture.
 
So the Greeks are reporting all these turns and a decent.

Others are saying the radar data doesn't show that. So which is it?
 
I saw Sully being interviewed this morning on CNN(?). "We are hearing reports that the aircraft disappeared from radar. How common is that?"

I could almost hear the gears inside his head skipping a few teeth.
 
JCranford said:
Plane at 37K dropped to 20K then lost radar at 10K. Seems it made some unusual maneauvers prior to losing radar. News saying a right 90 degree turn then a left 360 then lost contact. Speculations runs rampant
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Kinda sounds like someone trying to see what controls they have left.
 
Found some debris a little while ago according to TV news. RIP
It's got to feel like a long ride down from 37,000 to sea level, terrible way to go out. :(
 
Looks now like the debris isn't from that airplane.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/18/middleeast/egyptair-flight-disappears/index.html

I flew EgyptAir exactly once - in the 90's. When we landed in Cairo (coming in from Saudi Arabia), I was the only person on the airplane needing to go to a specific connecting terminal, so the pilot (or may have been co-pilot) told me to wait on the airplane so that another bus will come and pick me up. Eventually I had to "tip" him so that he would actually call the bus to come and get me in time, and then I had to "tip" the bus driver to take me to the right terminal. Crazy.
 
Can an A320 go in to a stall spin scenario? When I heard 360, I thought a spin, but I think a spin might look like a straight down on radar, and not a 360.
 
Big L said:
Can an A320 go in to a stall spin scenario? When I heard 360, I thought a spin, but I think a spin might look like a straight down on radar, and not a 360.
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It's possible, but it's not easy. Especially if all flight computers are working properly and still in normal law.
 
Well, flying home from MIA to CMH on May 5, 2016 at 9:30 AM EDT I was in an RJ with a 2 seat x 1 seat configuration. There were 2-3 doubles empty. I know because I grabbed the one in the very back and stretched out. Love when that happens.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Now I remember why I generally don't post here any more...
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Well were you joking or not. It's hard to tell on the internet.

If you were serious please explain why you think us airlines cancel flights because of empty seats?? Are you an airline pilot that has experienced this event?

I was an airline pilot for a few years. Never heard of such a thing happening. Never had flights get cancelled when I was riding as offline jumpseater either. Frankly if you were not joking it sounds like you just made it up to see what response you would get. I think there's a word used to describe that kind of behavior on the Internet.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Well were you joking or not. It's hard to tell on the internet.

If you were serious please explain why you think us airlines cancel flights because of empty seats?? Are you an airline pilot that has experienced this event?
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Looks like he's joking. A few more posts into this thread and you'll see that the both of you are on the same page. Orange, however, is your guy.

I've never seen an airline cancel a flight due to a light load factor. It just doesn't happen.
 
Bobcat1 said:
Looks like he's joking. A few more posts into this thread and you'll see that the both of you are on the same page. Orange, however, is your guy.

I've never seen an airline cancel a flight due to a light load factor. It just doesn't happen.
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Exactly. Particularly since cancelling that flight will affect further flights downstream with regards to aircraft and crew utilization. When aircraft A is flying 7 legs in a day, amongst 5 different airports, deliberately canceling that flight is going to cause more headaches than flying it to begin with.
 
Has Egyptair changed anything since 1999 to reduce the possibility of a pilot suicide?

The crash of flight 990 that year was attributed by the NTSB to the first officer purposely crashing into the Atlantic Ocean, while Egypt refused to believe that, and insisted there was a mechanical failure.

I'm just wondering whether refusal to accept the suicide cause would lead EgyptAir to also refuse improved cabin safety practices and improved health reporting as well.
 
Bobcat1 said:
Looks like he's joking. A few more posts into this thread and you'll see that the both of you are on the same page. Orange, however, is your guy.

I've never seen an airline cancel a flight due to a light load factor. It just doesn't happen.
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I'm not sure why we discussing it in this thread, but just about any American frequent flyer has experienced it. Of course that isn't the reason they give, but I'm sure you could find a legitimate pretextual reason to cancel any flight. Of course sometimes they need the aircraft to move even though it's half empty, but I don't think anybody claimed it happens every time. But if you've got ten flights and nine planes, which one's getting cancelled? Or back to back half empty flights to the same destination? I've seen many times the earlier flight is cancelled and all the passengers magically fit on the next flight. In fact, it happened to me the last time I returned from SFO, and I happened to wind up on the later flight next to an FA commuting to her base, who confirmed it happened regularly.
 
Lindberg said:
I'm not sure why we discussing it in this thread, but just about any American frequent flyer has experienced it. Of course that isn't the reason they give, but I'm sure you could find a legitimate pretextual reason to cancel any flight. Of course sometimes they need the aircraft to move even though it's half empty, but I don't think anybody claimed it happens every time. But if you've got ten flights and nine planes, which one's getting cancelled? Or back to back half empty flights to the same destination? I've seen many times the earlier flight is cancelled and all the passengers magically fit on the next flight. In fact, it happened to me the last time I returned from SFO, and I happened to wind up on the later flight next to an FA commuting to her base, who confirmed it happened regularly.
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As stated earlier, it just doesn't make sense to cancel a flight for low passenger counts. An entire chain of future flights depend on that airplane going to that destination.
 
Kritchlow said:
As stated earlier, it just doesn't make sense to cancel a flight for low passenger counts. An entire chain of future flights depend on that airplane going to that destination.
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Flights get cancelled everyday and it's dealt with. So it isn't like a cancellation is catastrophic. A couple of years ago, when the union was fighting with AA, pilots were canceling flights for minor issues not affecting airworthiness. Life went on.
 
deonb said:
Looks now like the debris isn't from that airplane.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/18/middleeast/egyptair-flight-disappears/index.html
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Looks like the searchers have now found debris from the flight.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36339614

Reported flight path might have been due to an emergency descent gone bad after decompression at altitude. Or a hijacking of the plane. Shouldn't be difficult to figure out what happened once the magic boxes are recovered.
 
Lindberg said:
I'm not sure why we discussing it in this thread, but just about any American frequent flyer has experienced it. Of course that isn't the reason they give, but I'm sure you could find a legitimate pretextual reason to cancel any flight.
Click to expand...

I don't get it. Do you guys think the 121 pilots here are lying about this? I typically fly about 350 legs per year. Over the course of my 121 career, I have *never* personally had a flight cancel because of the load factor, nor have I ever commuted or been on a flight that has. And most of the guys around here have been flying a hell of a lot longer than I have, and they seem to share my experience.

I'm not going to say that it never happens (I don't like speaking in absolutes if I can avoid it) but the original statement that derailed the thread implied that US carriers do it all the time, and thats simply not the case.
 
Kritchlow said:
It's possible, but it's not easy. Especially if all flight computers are working properly and still in normal law.
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if its in normal law it is impossible. to get it in to alternate law requires multiple failures of redundant systems.
 
kayoh190 said:
I don't get it. Do you guys think the 121 pilots here are lying about this? I typically fly about 350 legs per year. Over the course of my 121 career, I have *never* personally had a flight cancel because of the load factor, nor have I ever commuted or been on a flight that has. And most of the guys around here have been flying a hell of a lot longer than I have, and they seem to share my experience.

I'm not going to say that it never happens (I don't like speaking in absolutes if I can avoid it) but the original statement that derailed the thread implied that US carriers do it all the time, and thats simply not the case.
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Good to know. I was also of the opinion that airlines seemed to cancel at times due to low load factor but I am willing to be corrected on this assumption.
 
RudyP said:
Good to know. I was also of the opinion that airlines seemed to cancel at times due to low load factor but I am willing to be corrected on this assumption.
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Our airline only gets paid by the mainline if we competed the flight. So I've run flight with two people on them. Let just say they got treated very well!
 
RudyP said:
Good to know. I was also of the opinion that airlines seemed to cancel at times due to low load factor but I am willing to be corrected on this assumption.
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And I'm also willing to admit that it might happen from time to time. Just because I fly for my airline doesn't necessarily mean I know everything that occurs operationally. I was just saying that I haven't personally experienced it, which indicates to me that it's not something that happens as a matter of practice. But I'm always willing to be corrected as well! :)
 
It seems like the media has concluded it's terrorism. Oh yeah so has Donald Trump. But I don't think anyone has a clue yet what happened.
 
Lindberg said:
Flights get cancelled everyday and it's dealt with. So it isn't like a cancellation is catastrophic. A couple of years ago, when the union was fighting with AA, pilots were canceling flights for minor issues not affecting airworthiness. Life went on.
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But a mechanical or weather one has no choice. It is not smart to intentionally do it.

Yes, life went on... But it created much disruption for the company. That's the point.
 
It does seem as if speculation has become a sport on the news. When the recorders are opened up, there might be the "Oh, yeah, well there is THAT, too" reaction. It seems like terrorism is the way many people want it to be - what happens if it's just a dumb move on the part of the flight crew? Then the conspiracy theorists will be all over it claiming cover-up.
 
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