Educate me on why this plane has not sold

I think a lot of the comments on it here have been too harsh. :) *But* -- the engine time combined with it having not been run for the last several years are really the deal breaker. New transponder and a new radio aren't that much money when you're already doing an engine overhaul. The interior looks serviceable and the paint looks fine to me, at least from the pictures (if you don't think it's pretty then you can pay however much "pretty" is worth to you, but it's hardly required). But the engine time is the problem.
 
Interesting -- but my initial impression is that this isn't a big deal because it's flown okay 2,500-ish hours since then. Am I wrong in that?
 
An accident in 1968? Strike Eight! :D

When we're done answering OP's question, it's not even gonna be worth the 75 cents/lb the recyclers will offer.
 
Sucks to be that pilot though... at the time of the accident his airplane was essentially brand new...
 
I thought the date in that report was 1981
 
Bob Noel said:
I thought the date in that report was 1981
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Either it's two seperate occurrences, or it took 'em a really long time to make out the report.


BTW, what's the NTBS? A mildly dyslexic NTSB?
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Looks like the second listing is a Service Difficulty Report, not associated with the earlier accident.

Ron Wanttaja
 
It also call it a pa28-181...which would be an Archer. Not a Cherokee...
 
deyoung said:
Interesting -- but my initial impression is that this isn't a big deal because it's flown okay 2,500-ish hours since then. Am I wrong in that?
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Flown 2500 hrs since accident doesn't make it no big deal. Since logs are missing for that date, all records need to be ordered from FAA. All 337 forms should be in the records. Start by looking at what was repaired, how it was repaired, and who repaired it. Evaluate this first, then look for the current condition of the repairs before deciding if it was no big deal or not. Colliding with trees after engine failure sounds like a big deal of repairs. If there are no records on file regarding the repairs, don't even give the plane a second look.
 
Guys, clerical misspellings are not a mystery. The plane plowed into a bunch of trees and was seriously damaged. Would you buy it? It was owned by someone who did not know how much gas was in the tanks. How well do you think they maintained it?
 
Lawson_Stone said:
According to the Aviation Database the plane had a significant accident
View attachment 115221
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I was wondering when somebody would bring that up. I saw the NTSB final pop up under a google search for the N number, but couldn’t open it and wasn’t motivated enough to go to aviationdb for me detail.
 
lsaway said:
.. All 337 forms should be in the records. Start by looking at what was repaired, how it was repaired, and who repaired it. .
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Hell, the 337s are in the ad.
9c7d12fce5ec9c390722a21efa4368f3.jpg
 
MPB said:
until you go to Signature and they marshall you to the parking spot behind the hangar with all the derelict fuel and deicing trucks.
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They told me they hold that parking spot especially for me because I was in a twin and there was less chance of getting drooled over by all the single engine folks....

Do you think it was because the plane was a tan color with a attractive brown and orange stripe down each side....with orange and brown plaid interior.??
 
Runout engine , avionics need major upgrade,not a very impressive paint job. It’s not a keeper even for time building.
 
MPB said:
What you have here is a plane that needs at very bare minimum an engine done pronto - I'd budget 40AMU for that as it will likely need/ should have done mufflers, mount work, accessories, etc. as well. Bad engines can and will kill you.
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If that engine has been ground run repeatedly, or just taken on 15-minute flights, it will be so badly corroded inside that it won't even be a useable core. Might need a new engine altogether.

MPB said:
Avionics I think are somewhat passable - later generation Narco MK12D and audio panel - workable.
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We had Narco MK12Ds in the flight school airplanes. They were the worst radios imaginable. Constant failures of the displays and everything else. Within four years we had spent more money on repairs than on the initial purchases and installations. They are one reason why Narco has been dead for a long time now.
 
Should have just listed it as "mechanic special."
 
as ugly as that paint is, you should have seen one cherokee I looked at...

looked like the idiot used a few cans of spray paint, mottled, overspray, uneven. ye gawds.
 
deyoung said:
Interesting -- but my initial impression is that this isn't a big deal because it's flown okay 2,500-ish hours since then. Am I wrong in that?
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My thoughts exactly.

It was repaired and flown a long time. So the repairs seem to have been done well.
 
Lawson_Stone said:
Guys, clerical misspellings are not a mystery. The plane plowed into a bunch of trees and was seriously damaged. Would you buy it? It was owned by someone who did not know how much gas was in the tanks. How well do you think they maintained it?
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The mishap occurred in 1968. :D
 
Most likely the owner had a health event around the time it stopped flying, followed by long illness, and the aircraft sat until he finally passed away. Common story.

Definitely not a prospect for a first time owner looking for a cheap way to build time. Maybe a prospect for someone able to do their own work and gradually bring it back to life, especially if price is negotiable.

Engine shop backlog is much improved from last year. My guy has no cylinders last summer. Now he has pallets of them everywhere. My engine sat on hold for 8 months while I restored my plane. But when I gave the shop a deposit on parts last month, they had it assembled in about a month.

IMO with all the modern flat panel options, a 100% basket case panel might be more appealing than a partially updated panel. At least you are not paying for stuff you will throw away. Get a new panel blank and start from scratch.
 
Ed Haywood said:
…Definitely not a prospect for a first time owner looking for a cheap way to build time. Maybe a prospect for someone able to do their own work and gradually bring it back to life, especially if price is negotiable...
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If somebody was wanting to log time towards an A&P cert, this could be perfect project plane. Take 30 months, DIY the whole thing, including OH the motor.

It’s almost better than a quick build kit.
 
FB is the most entertaining place to watch the sale of airplanes. People seem to care very little that an engine is 30 years old or more, but are quick to point out a high time engine. In a normal market a 100 hour engine that's 15 years old is worth the same price as a 2500 hour engine that's 15 or less years old. In fact, I would rather have the 2500 hour engine! Then again it's a little comical to see someone join the FB type club 6 months to a year later looking for OH recommendations.
 
As someone noted, it’s just priced too high. But any positive number is too high for this airplane. My initial offer would be zero, and I’d reserve the right to go down from there after inspection. And I think that’s generous.

People talk about “as long as it isn’t making metal,” and things like that. We don’t even know sure that it isn’t STUCK! If it would start, I wouldn’t fly behind that engine to get it to the overhaul shop. I don’t think I’d even feel safe taxiing it to the shop!
 
Lawson_Stone said:
Guys, clerical misspellings are not a mystery. The plane plowed into a bunch of trees and was seriously damaged. Would you buy it? It was owned by someone who did not know how much gas was in the tanks. How well do you think they maintained it?
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Well, it looks like they probably had it for less than a year anyway...
 
Jim K said:
looking at that 337, it's accurate to say they got it "one piece at a time"
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I'm deeply concerned by the 337. It mentions a couple of negligible W&B changes for the radio and such, on the same page as it mentions replacing the wings, fuel tanks, windshield, etc. Why on earth would you not just weigh the plane at the end of the job instead of slapping on new wings and weighing it, then putting in a new radio and saying the W&B change was negligible?
 
TCABM said:
If somebody was wanting to log time towards an A&P cert, this could be perfect project plane. Take 30 months, DIY the whole thing, including OH the motor.

It’s almost better than a quick build kit.
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DIY is not the way to get an A&P. It has to be done under the supervision of another A&P. You would not automatically know how to fix everything in that airplane, and many mistakes would be made, some of them lethal.

Even if one did that, it would make you familiar with exactly one model of aircraft and engine. Not a good education at all.

In flight training and elsewhere, we have the Seven Learning factors. One of them is Primacy, which says this, in relation to flight training:

PRIMACY - Present new knowledge or skills correctly the first time. (Teach it right the first time.)

When students are presented with new knowledge or skills, the first impression received is almost unshakeable. This means that what you teach must be correct the first time. Students may forget the details of lessons, but will retain an overall image of the skill or knowledge for a long time. Frequently you will be required to perform maneuvers in the aircraft before a student has had the necessary background training. You must perform those maneuvers correctly or the student may imitate any errors you make. For example, before the exercise on cross-wind landings, you and your student are required to land in a cross-wind. Any poor example shown at this time would have to be "unlearned" when the exercise came up in a subsequent lesson.

It's an unfortunate thing to learn stuff the wrong way. A terrific waste.
 
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Pinecone said:
From logs, 1990:

Removed NARCO MK-12/VOA-4. Removed RADAIR Mdi 250
Transponder. Installed NARCO MK-12D, ID-824, AT-150 and an
ACK A-30 Altitude Encoder. Installed APOLLO Mdl 612B
Loran-C, Version #FB10236.

So the radios aren't that old.

It flew 15 hours from 10/11 to 2/12, then a whopping 2 hours since then. So it really sat for 10 years, even though it was in annual for the first 3
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Yeah the radios are from the Clinton Administration. And about as good as useful as a brick. At least as repairable as one.
 
It might be worth more parted out at this point.
 
You guys are cruel.

I have a number of harnessed transponders on my shelf that would take less than an hour to install and check - couldn’t care about the existing wiring since running power, ground and double checking the antenna would take no time. Harnessing a transponder with encoder and antenna would take me less than an hour. Most of those transponders are $200/300 at best.

Plenty of Garmin 400’s for $1k around. Many comms for $1k let alone 1500. Everyone doesn’t need a Dynon HDX like I’m finishing on a 6 seater for a customer or a 750txi to keep up with the joneses. A garmin 696 does plenty let alone foreflight.

Paint? Since I own the paint shop I could do whatever I want, and I’d probably show a kindness to the buyer and discount the paint job a few AMU’s. Strip and paint, Matterhorn white Imron, two color stripes, back in service in two weeks.

Yup, the motor sat.

Price is too high. Someone died, IA picked it up for a song and is trying to out kids through college with the profit


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