Duke down and on fire, Fullerton CA

schmookeeg said:
So which is more damaging across the whole pilot community... leaving your controls in the wind to bang around, or the few idiots who jury-rig gust locks, forget them, and sail into a fiery crater?
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Airplanes can be fixed or replaced. Not so much for human folks.
 
schmookeeg said:
So which is more damaging across the whole pilot community... leaving your controls in the wind to bang around, or the few idiots who jury-rig gust locks, forget them, and sail into a fiery crater?
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The Questair Venture solved this problem long ago. Make the controls small enough and spring load them all so no lock is needed;)
 
I don't think this is an argument for not using gust locks, but I do think it makes an argument that you should use obvious ones. In the case of this aircraft, sounds like he was using gust lock to clear an object inside the hanger. Hindsight is 20/20, but he would have been better off throwing away whatever it was that was blocking the elevator. Or having it about 2.5 feet long, orange, and in the pilot's seat. Even if you check 3 times, a system that is impossible to miss is an improvement.
 
Albany Tom said:
Or having it about 2.5 feet long, orange, and in the pilot's seat. Even if you check 3 times, a system that is impossible to miss is an improvement.
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On the very rare occasion I've had to leave the plane in a known unairworthy or unusual condition, I leave a BIG note taped to the yoke or taped to the control lock (standard Cessna type that blocks the ignition switch).
 
Zeldman said:
I had the controls seize up on a C-414 during the take off roll, after checking free and correct before entering the runway. Then the controls freed up after I exited the runway.

Scary part was the plane spent the next three days in the shop and the guys never did find out why it happened, but it never happened again while I was still there.
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Bird get in there?
 
schmookeeg said:
So which is more damaging across the whole pilot community... leaving your controls in the wind to bang around, or the few idiots who jury-rig gust locks, forget them, and sail into a fiery crater?
Click to expand...

He didn't have the home made control lock in place because of a windy parking spot. He created it so that he could park his old VW Bug in the back of his hangar behind the Duke. He needed a few extra inches of space and lifting the elevators did the trick. His Hangar was in the same row as mine.
 
Zeldman said:
I had the controls seize up on a C-414 during the take off roll, after checking free and correct before entering the runway. Then the controls freed up after I exited the runway.

Scary part was the plane spent the next three days in the shop and the guys never did find out why it happened, but it never happened again while I was still there.
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I’ve had this same thing happen. The auto pilot was engaged. I hit the blue button on accident right before the takeoff roll. Aborted the takeoff and soon there after figured it out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
JEB said:
He didn't have the home made control lock in place because of a windy parking spot. He created it so that he could park his old VW Bug in the back of his hangar behind the Duke. He needed a few extra inches of space and lifting the elevators did the trick. His Hangar was in the same row as mine.
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Sigh. That's even dumber. This is just darwin skimming the pool then.
 
N1120A said:
This is different and I agree it is a good practice. I see people yank stuff up and down all the time and just cringe
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I have a lot of time working on Cessnas, and often found ailerons with their corrugated skins concaved. That happens when people pinch them, and it also happens on the outboard sections when guys whack them up and down. That big lead mass-balance weight inside the lower leading edge keeps going when the aileron bellcrank hits its stop. That causes compression buckling of the skin, and I have also twice found bent aileron pushrods from the same things. They're a 1/4" bar of 4130 and were never designed to take the beating people can give them.

Those concaved aileron skins can act like trim tabs, making the airplane wing-heavy.

Found wrinkled or bent rudder skins. Found, once, the elevator down-stop bracket crushed on a 172. Found cracked rudder stops on a 170; that one was from wind banging the rudder around.
 
Peter Anderson said:
I’ve had this same thing happen. The auto pilot was engaged. I hit the blue button on accident right before the takeoff roll. Aborted the takeoff and soon there after figured it out.
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I am sure it wasn't the auto pilot. The old Cessna A/P took 2 buttons to push to activate. Last item on the A/P checklist is to push the A/P disconnect on the yoke to see it it actually disconnects. And the controls were locked. Something solid was blocking movement. But as I exited the runway everything went back to normal. The first day it was in maintenance I sat in the plane moving the controls while the mechanics checked everything. We even did a few high speed accelerations on the runway as if we were going to take off and nothing. CND. (can not duplicate)

A the time I never thought to look on the runway for a wrench or a screw driver that possibly could have been left somewhere on the plane that could have been the culprit. One of those unsolved mysteries.
 
schmookeeg said:
So which is more damaging across the whole pilot community... leaving your controls in the wind to bang around, or the few idiots who jury-rig gust locks, forget them, and sail into a fiery crater?
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By happenstance I found this on Kathryn's Report today. The RV-8 pilot owner took off with the rear seat belt fastened to the stick. Prior to takeoff, a witness had noticed the seat belt and made the pilot aware of it.

A few minutes later the pilot crashed on takeoff when the aircraft climbed steeply and stalled.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/12/vans-rv-8-n836jc-fatal-accident.html?m=1#google_vignette
 
midwestpa24 said:
This reminds me of an Air Force C-130 accident that was caused by the pilot wedging his NVG case in front of the yoke to keep the elevators held up during a loading/unloading exercise.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/...caused-by-forgotten-night-vision-goggle-case/
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I came across a video about that crash a couple of weeks ago. It was a very strange occurrence. You would think the pilot would notice the control column was displaced rearward several inches and that movement was restricted just by grasping the yoke.
 
3393RP said:
I came across a video about that crash a couple of weeks ago. It was a very strange occurrence. You would think the pilot would notice the control column was displaced rearward several inches and that movement was restricted just by grasping the yoke.
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One would think that, but here we see more than once its happened and was not noticed.
 
It seems to go back to Primacy: Things first learned are the things you retain. Control checking before takeoff should be one of those things an instructor teaches right on the first flight, along with the control surface movement checks during the preflight. There's just way too much hanging on having full and free control movement. And if it's been in for maintenance, or if it's a rental or club or partnership airplane, full and free and right direction, too.
 
Dan Thomas said:
It seems to go back to Primacy: Things first learned are the things you retain.
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The thing I hope students learn is to constantly look for ways to improve their standard operating procedures in the pursuit of perfection. Besides checking for correct and free control deflection, incorporating a reminder in the form of a visual aid such as a coffee cup inverted over a throttle or control horn served me well over the years when an external lock was installed. Never walking away from an airplane during preflight, leaving it in an unairworthy state such as with an engine cowl unlatched or keys in the baggage door was another lesson I learned. Take it to an even higher level, students, the ball's in your court.
 
dtuuri said:
The thing I hope students learn is to constantly look for ways to improve their standard operating procedures in the pursuit of perfection...

...[L]eaving it in an unairworthy state such as with an engine cowl unlatched or keys in the baggage door was another lesson I learned. Take it to an even higher level, students, the ball's in your court.
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One thing that should be drilled into a pilot's response to perceived emergencies, is that with very few exceptions, the flight of an airplane will continue unaffected if a cabin or baggage compartment door is left unlatched and opens during takeoff (or shortly thereafter).

A pilot I knew and admired for his flying accomplishments reacted to an open baggage door as an emergency that didn't exist, and his subsequent actions resulted in a loss of control and crash of the large twin. It killed all on board.
 
Grum.Man said:
The Questair Venture solved this problem long ago. Make the controls small enough and spring load them all so no lock is needed;)
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Same for the elevator on my Lancair. It introduces longitudinal instability though and struggles on altitude hold. Do you see the same in yours? They recommend removal of the servo with spring bias system in favor of a trim tab for elevator trim.
 
FORANE said:
Same for the elevator on my Lancair. It introduces longitudinal instability though and struggles on altitude hold. Do you see the same in yours? They recommend removal of the servo with spring bias system in favor of a trim tab for elevator trim.
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You have to use the trim a lot as any out of trim condition in combination with the springs makes for an extremely heavy elevator.
 
Grum.Man said:
You have to use the trim a lot as any out of trim condition in combination with the springs makes for an extremely heavy elevator.
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Interesting, I've stopped using the elevator trim in my lancair. I just leave it in cruise position and it's very easy to overpower. I just mentioned the spring bias system as feedback on the lancair forum is that system in our planes tends to produce oscillating and inferior altitude hold.
 
It only takes 1 time to forget something vital during preflight. You don’t have to be “that guy” and leave this world in a spectacular display if you take your time when doing a preflight and actually pay attention to what you are looking at. Easy to miss something after your three thousandth preflight….
 
FORANE said:
Interesting, I've stopped using the elevator trim in my lancair. I just leave it in cruise position and it's very easy to overpower. I just mentioned the spring bias system as feedback on the lancair forum is that system in our planes tends to produce oscillating and inferior altitude hold.
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The springs were the fix for pilot induced oscillation. In normal flight the stick in the venture only moves an inch or two either way for pitch control. If you are in cruise configuration you will be all over the place fighting the pressure at lower air speeds.
 
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