DUI screening stop

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Alexb2000

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Alexb2000
So the other night I'm out to dinner with a couple of friends (pilots). The restaurant is having drink specials, but I am drinking club soda because I am flying the next day. Anyway everyone is having drinks, maybe 4-5 over the course of 3 hours. Everyone seems fine and we leave. I went home a different route from my friends. Up ahead I see traffic stopped and what looks like a wreck. When I get closer it turns out to be a DWI checkpoint. They have a lot of cars over on the side giving them sobriety tests. I roll up and the cops start looking in the car asking questions, flood lights, dogs, the whole deal. I said, "give me a breathalyzer, whatever, I haven't had a drop". They take a long look, ask some more questions, and wave me through.

I started thinking about how dumb lucky it was that I got stopped and not my friends. It could have been the end of someone's flying just that quick. In these deals any hint of alcohol and you get the full Monty of testing. We all know that one can have control of their facilities and still test too high.

Generally I limit myself to one drink when driving, regardless of timeframe. More and more I just take a car service or cab to dinner, it just isn't worth sweating something like that.

The last one of these I saw was outside a Casino in OK about 2am. They had so many people in cuffs I lost count.

Be careful out there.
 
Thanks for posting,a couple of drinks aren't worth losing your flying rights.
 
I thought such roadblocks were considered unconstitutional in Texas?

My understanding is that sobriety checks like that are considered violations of the Oregon constitution (where I live.)
 
The beauty of these checkpoints is the right to remain silent. USE IT.

There is is zero reason or requirement to answer questions, and - the best part - if you refuse to answer - and they pull you over for further inquiry - you will prob be found not guilty because they require some suspicion other than standing on your rights to pull you over for further 'examination.'

The right to not perform like a monkey on a field sobriety test that sober people cannot 'pass' because there are no pass / fail standards.
 
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In my part of Florida, not only are they done very frequently, but they even announce them in the newspaper telling people beforehand where and when they will be done. And still on Monday the police blotter in the paper is overflowing with the number of people arrested at the DUI screening stop. Figure that.

For me, I stopped drinking alcohol after my four years at Tulane. Enough drinking to last me a lifetime, and I was a teetotaler compared to many of my friends.
 
Jim Logajan said:
I thought such roadblocks were considered unconstitutional in Texas?

My understanding is that sobriety checks like that are considered violations of the Oregon constitution (where I live.)
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I wasn't in Texas, but I wasn't aware it wasn't done in Texas. I'll have to look into that.
 
The last time a DUI checkpoint around here was in the news was a couple years ago - I think it was after a Monday Night Football game, might not have been but it was after a Chiefs game. The checkpoint was on the Missouri side, right at the last exit at State Line Rd. Pretty much guaranteed that no Missouri drivers were stopped, just Kansas drivers. Sneaky ***.

I don't think I've ever been stopped at any checkpoint, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't volunteer for a test.
 
Take the breathalyzer if you must (and if they ask, you must) but don't do the field checks. I've been given two breathalyzers and both times I was .000 because I hadn't been drinking but they didn't believe me. Even a sober person may not pass the field test as they are very very much up to the discretion of the officer. But if you don't take the breathalyzer remember you're assumed by the faa to be an extreme DUI. And in most states you'll lose your license until your case is resolved.
 
Sir. I do not answer questions such as the ones you are asking...
 
Just be thankful that they are out there being proactive and getting drunks/drugs/wanteds off the street. Those you saw in cuffs could have been the ones who kill you or your loved ones that night.
 
I predict that there will be a point at which people are going to be so fed up with this DUI checkpoint crap and living in a police state in general, that people will start to push back. With violence.

Not condoning it, just saying.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I predict that there will be a point at which people are going to be so fed up with this DUI checkpoint crap and living in a police state in general, that people will start to push back. With violence.

Not condoning it, just saying.
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It's only been going on for three decades or more, and much less nowadays than just ten years ago, so I predict your prediction is wrong.
 
In Georgia, I think they call them license/insurance check points, :rolleyes: The multitude of DUI's they encounter is just a bonus! :rofl::rofl:
Actually, the local city police like to set up on either end of an access road that has 2 bars on it, the two most popular bars in town. After a class reunion, I think they ran out of handcuffs! :nono:
Except nights like tonight, when my in-laws are coming over, I'm glad I quit drinking! ;)
 
Jim Logajan said:
What state were you in? There are several sites that summarize state laws in regards to such stops; here are two:

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/checkpoint_laws.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_checkpoint
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New Mexico.

Z06_Mir said:
Take the breathalyzer if you must (and if they ask, you must) but don't do the field checks. I've been given two breathalyzers and both times I was .000 because I hadn't been drinking but they didn't believe me. Even a sober person may not pass the field test as they are very very much up to the discretion of the officer. But if you don't take the breathalyzer remember you're assumed by the faa to be an extreme DUI. And in most states you'll lose your license until your case is resolved.
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I thought we had to give a breathalyzer if asked because of the FAA. Many of you guys are saying don't answer questions or take any tests, help me out here?
 
N747JB said:
In Georgia, I think they call them license/insurance check points, :rolleyes: The multitude of DUI's they encounter is just a bonus! :rofl::rofl:
Actually, the local city police like to set up on either end of an access road that has 2 bars on it, the two most popular bars in town. After a class reunion, I think they ran out of handcuffs! :nono:
Except nights like tonight, when my in-laws are coming over, I'm glad I quit drinking! ;)
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Yes that's a type of check we do GA
 
Alexb2000 said:
We all know that one can have control of their facilities and still test too high.
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Not thinking that we all know that nor that we would agree with it. Bottle line is any amount of alcohol begins to impair you. Take the safe route and call a ride. Save your license, save your flying privileges and you might just save your or someone else's life.
 
Z06_Mir said:
Take the breathalyzer if you must (and if they ask, you must) but don't do the field checks.
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Not true- please go understand what you are obligated to do before you repeat that which is simply incorrect.

Once you are placed under arrest you are required to consent to the breath or blood or urine test. If an officer 'invites you' to 'prove your innocence' by blowing into 'here' ask him if you are under arrest. If his answer is anything other than yes - decline.

If you are under arrest, trust me- there will be no doubt.
 
Jalloway502 said:
Not thinking that we all know that nor that we would agree with it. Bottle line is any amount of alcohol begins to impair you. Take the safe route and call a ride. Save your license, save your flying privileges and you might just save your or someone else's life.
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Agreed. I meant someone can feel and appear to others as fine and still be over the limit. poor wording
 
It is almost never in your best interest (and contrary to them if you have been drinking) to participate in the field sobriety tests and the portable breath tests. These are almost always optional on your part. It doesn't take much probable cause to haul you over for the legally binding (and implied consent) chemical test (whether it is a good idea or not depends on what state you are in). Whether they have to arrest you first there depends on the state again. As Doctor Bruce will tell you however, a refusal is BAD news to you with regard to the FAA. The FAA will assume you are highly intoxicated.

But as Doctor Bruce will tell you, any alcohol / drug vehicle action is going to be detrimental to you as a pilot. You'd be well advised to not drink at all if you are going to drive. Note there is *NO SUCH THING AS THE LEGAL LIMIT*. .08 is only the per se limit where you are automatically assumed intoxicated. You can be found guilty of DUI in nearly all states at lower BACs provided there are other (often completely subjective) signs of your intoxication.
 
comanchepilot said:
Not true- please go understand what you are obligated to do before you repeat that which is simply incorrect.

Once you are placed under arrest you are required to consent to the breath or blood or urine test. If an officer 'invites you' to 'prove your innocence' by blowing into 'here' ask him if you are under arrest. If his answer is anything other than yes - decline.

If you are under arrest, trust me- there will be no doubt.
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Not exactly. Even if you are under arrest you are not required to consent. You have the right to not incriminate yourself, so only if you waive that right you take the test, otherwise you can refuse (and they have to inform you of this I believe).
I'm not sure if you can refuse the one the police gives you before arresting you, maybe refusing gives him cause to arrest you, or maybe not. My understanding is that the one the police does on the stop does not really count as evidence because those things are not properly calibrated, it's only to help the officer decide if you are intoxicated or not in order to arrest you.
Not sure if you can refuse the other tests either or the consequences, as even if you breath a .0, you could be intoxicated with marijuana, or any other drug. I guess if you were driving erratically they can arrest you for refusing, but not on a random checkpoint.
 
N747JB said:
In Georgia, I think they call them license/insurance check points, :rolleyes: The multitude of DUI's they encounter is just a bonus! :rofl::rofl:
Actually, the local city police like to set up on either end of an access road that has 2 bars on it, the two most popular bars in town. After a class reunion, I think they ran out of handcuffs! :nono:
Except nights like tonight, when my in-laws are coming over, I'm glad I quit drinking! ;)
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its actually illegal in South Carolina to have a drivers license checkpoint - yet - the police still do them. And since most people who get DUI's will not hire a lawyer, they never know the initial stop is illegal. Thus - any information gleaned is fruit from the poisonous tree - seriously - go look it up. A DUI checkpoint is legal - but a simple DL/Paperwork inspection is not - but the requirements for the stop are strictly construed by the courts so the cops needs to show a disproportionate number of arrests on that road for DUI to justify the checkpoint - which gets prohibitive from a documentation perspective.

Anyway- I don't understand the eagerness to cooperate. I stopped at a checkpoint once and asked to see the lead officer- his checkpoint was completely illegal. It was immediately off an off ramp from a highway and could not be avoided coming off a limited access highway. He got in my face after I tried to explain to him why few of the arrests he made were going to be upheld given the illegality of the placement of the checkpoint. So I called his chief the next morning and had a chat - and called a few local DUI defense lawyers I know and told about the location of the stop. They got almost no convictions and wasted the entire night from a collections perspective.
 
Johann said:
Not exactly. Even if you are under arrest you are not required to consent. You have the right to not incriminate yourself, so only if you waive that right you take the test, otherwise you can refuse (and they have to inform you of this I believe).
I'm not sure if you can refuse the one the police gives you before arresting you, maybe refusing gives him cause to arrest you, or maybe not. My understanding is that the one the police does on the stop does not really count as evidence because those things are not properly calibrated, it's only to help the officer decide if you are intoxicated or not in order to arrest you.
Not sure if you can refuse the other tests either or the consequences, as even if you breath a .0, you could be intoxicated with marijuana, or any other drug. I guess if you were driving erratically they can arrest you for refusing, but not on a random checkpoint.
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Well, Johann, if you are not under arrest, you can tell them to stuff their request for a test with zero consequences from the DUI and even FAA perspective because there is no record of any 'motor vehicle action.'

If you placed under arrest - you cannot refuse without consequences. you will have your drivers licenses suspended automatically in most states for refusing - and - from the FAA perspective you have a motor vehicle action and a alcohol related arrest. As Ron notes, refusing at that point the FAA assumes you would have blown above a .15 - which has significant consequences with restoring a medical.

Personally, it is about consequences for me - not the legalities - choose the path of least overall consequences. For me - that always includes not cooperating until I am placed under arrest - if there are no grounds for suspecting drunk driving and I beat the criminal and DMV rap, the FAA issue will be minor to overcome with only a single event, no conviction, and a cooperative blow.
 
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comanchepilot said:
its actually illegal in South Carolina to have a drivers license checkpoint - yet - the police still do them. And since most people who get DUI's will not hire a lawyer, they never know the initial stop is illegal. Thus - any information gleaned is fruit from the poisonous tree - seriously - go look it up. A DUI checkpoint is legal - but a simple DL/Paperwork inspection is not - but the requirements for the stop are strictly construed by the courts so the cops needs to show a disproportionate number of arrests on that road for DUI to justify the checkpoint - which gets prohibitive from a documentation perspective.

Anyway- I don't understand the eagerness to cooperate. I stopped at a checkpoint once and asked to see the lead officer- his checkpoint was completely illegal. It was immediately off an off ramp from a highway and could not be avoided coming off a limited access highway. He got in my face after I tried to explain to him why few of the arrests he made were going to be upheld given the illegality of the placement of the checkpoint. So I called his chief the next morning and had a chat - and called a few local DUI defense lawyers I know and told about the location of the stop. They got almost no convictions and wasted the entire night from a collections perspective.
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Why was the checkpoint illegal?

I dont' drink much, but if I was stopped at a DUI checkpoint, and they asked for a breathalyzer, am I required to do it? I thought if you don't do it, it's considered to be positive.
 
alaskaflyer said:
It's only been going on for three decades or more, and much less nowadays than just ten years ago, so I predict your prediction is wrong.
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Pretty much. Haven't seen much change in the practice over the decades I have been driving.
 
bluee said:
Why was the checkpoint illegal?

I dont' drink much, but if I was stopped at a DUI checkpoint, and they asked for a breathalyzer, am I required to do it? I thought if you don't do it, it's considered to be positive.
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I don't which one you are talking about - but I will say it again this time put it in bold . . .

if you are not under arrest you are not required to consent to any test of your blood, breath or urine for alcohol.

Such is especially true at a DUI checkpoint. This has been established law in every state of which I am aware that has the implied consent law. Once you are placed under arrest - then the implied consent law becomes effective.

Moving on the FAA - is there an FAA inspector at your local DUI checkpoint looking for pilots to test? Lets get real here. . . .

The FAA can ask you for a sample - there are rules there too but they are looser than your local PD either at a traffic stop, the police station or a checkpoint.
 
comanchepilot said:
Well, Johann, if you are not under arrest, you can tell them to stuff their request for a test with zero consequences from the DUI and even FAA perspective because there is no record of any 'motor vehicle action.'
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Agree on the second part. Now, what I have no idea is what happens if you refuse the one before the arrest. I see that it will have no effect as long as there is no arrest, but I'm wondering if refusing is reason enough for them to arrest you. My guess would be "only if they have other reasons to believe you might be intoxicated, like erratic driving, alcohol smell, a huge wine stain on your shirt, etc."
 
comanchepilot said:
I don't which one you are talking about - but I will say it again this time put it in bold . . .

if you are not under arrest you are not required to consent to any test of your blood, breath or urine for alcohol.

Such is especially true at a DUI checkpoint. This has been established law in every state of which I am aware that has the implied consent law. Once you are placed under arrest - then the implied consent law becomes effective.

Moving on the FAA - is there an FAA inspector at your local DUI checkpoint looking for pilots to test? Lets get real here. . . .

The FAA can ask you for a sample - there are rules there too but they are looser than your local PD either at a traffic stop, the police station or a checkpoint.
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Thank you. I did not know that.
 
Johann, once again, how you refuse is key. Refusals that say: "I stand on my fifth amendment right to avoid incriminating statements and actions and refuse to cooperate" do not give the police grounds to detain you.

Does not mean they will not. Does not mean they will try to coerce with 'what do you have to hide,' and 'only criminals need their rights' and inanity like that.

Run the scenario . . .

You roll up to a checkpoint. You roll down you window just enough to communicate clearly. You hand the cop a little card that says "I stand on my fifth amendment right to avoid incriminating statements and actions and refuse to cooperate or answer questions without an attorney present."

Officer Friendly just got ****ed off. But you have not said a word. Alcohol on your breath? Don't think so? Weaving, turn signal failure, light out? I hope not - not in a straight line of idling vehicles.

He tells you: "You have to answer me, have you been drinking tonight.'

Point to the card.

He needs to make a decision. Every cop instinct is telling him to pull you over and harass you. How dare you exercise your rights and not cooperate. Thats how they think - I know it is. I've heard it. I"m wasting their time by not cooperating.

Yet, if he pulls you over, and discovers intoxication, what were his grounds to do so? He did not have any. So the arrest gets kicked.

You can't answer the question anyway - have been drinking? Drinking what? Requires you to open your mouth and express your breath. His lack of specificity is not your problem.

These checkpoints are tiresome. We have them in our city. In the last 9 months we have had six of them. All in the same place. The last three that I can recall have captured TWO people in eighteen total checkpoint hours for DUI. There have been 24 arrests for not having a drivers license. These are illegal aliens in SoCal.

In 18 hours they nabbed 2 people for DUI. 2. ten people manning the check point. ten man hours for each one. Do you think that 10 officers patrolling on a Friday or Sat night could nab more drunk drivers in a city with 6 colleges, three graduate universities and few bars, or at a checkpoint?
 
PS, Al - if you are talking about the checkpoint at the freeway offramp - the Supreme Court has said that a motorist must be able to avoid the checkpoint if they so desire. If you place the checkpoint between the off ramp and the first stop light - and there are no streets between the two points - then the motorist cannot avoid the checkpoint and it is illegal.
 
How about not drinking so you won't be impaired thus possibly killing someone in an accident? Losing a pilot's license should be secondary to that one.
 
LJS1993 said:
How about not drinking so you won't be impaired thus possibly killing someone in an accident? Losing a pilot's license should be secondary to that one.
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That goes without saying - but I'm always sober when I hit these checkpoints and I refuse anyway . . .
 
comanchepilot said:
That goes without saying - but I'm always sober when I hit these checkpoints and I refuse anyway . . .
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What part of SoCal are you in? I ask because one secondary benefit from the RSO check points which occur quite often are the nabbing of people with suspended licenses, parole violations, undocumented, etc.......... I have no problem with these check points and have nothing to fear when I go through them so I willingly cooperate.
 
Interesting thread.... I don't drink and drive as I wait to have an adult beverage after I get home........

So.....
Let's suppose I am perfectly sober and I get pulled over and go the route of.. I plead the 5th and not say a word.. The officer gets ticked off and arrests me for DUI... I then have to submit to testing... So they take a breath test and I offer a blood test and I even offer a hair sample to prove I am perfectly clean.. The tests all come back negative.......

Do I go after the police for a trumped up arrest ??? I would think they would be crappin in their shorts when they see I am totally clean and they had no legal reason to arrest me...


Then what happens ???:dunno::dunno:
 
douglas393 said:
In my part of Florida, not only are they done very frequently, but they even announce them in the newspaper telling people beforehand where and when they will be done. And still on Monday the police blotter in the paper is overflowing with the number of people arrested at the DUI screening stop. Figure that.
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Maybe they can't read. Back in 1997 or 98 I ran into one of those in Fremont, CA. They had signs saying "sobriety check" way up the road. However, at the time I did not know what the word "sobriety" meant, so it was meaningless to me. So, when the traffic started to back up and it looked like we're well stuck in a jam, and my wife started making unhappy noises, I took a shopping plaza to bypass the checkpoint. Cops did not care or did not see my maneuver.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I wasn't in Texas, but I wasn't aware it wasn't done in Texas. I'll have to look into that.
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They still do,them and some holidays it is mandatory to give the blood, they have a warrant to make to take it there on spot.
 
LJS1993 said:
What part of SoCal are you in? I ask because one secondary benefit from the RSO check points which occur quite often are the nabbing of people with suspended licenses, parole violations, undocumented, etc.......... I have no problem with these check points and have nothing to fear when I go through them so I willingly cooperate.
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So they catch people without a license who are illegal - whats the point of that again? When was the last time an illegal alien was deported in California? It is not a state crime - so whats the offense? They can't even seize the cars any more -

How can someone have a parole violation driving through a checkpoint?

My point is that with AB109 there is no longer any reason to fear being arrested for anything short of violent felony in California - you will be sentenced to time served and once you bail yourself out you will be free to go essentially. There is no room in the jails for the parole violators, the undocumented, or even the drunk drivers.

I don't have a problem with anyone who wants to cooperate - I think its a mistake for lots of reasons - but they are your rights to use or not. So long as you make a knowingly waiver of your rights and decision to cooperate - its your decision.
 
N801BH said:
Interesting thread.... I don't drink and drive as I wait to have an adult beverage after I get home........

So.....
Let's suppose I am perfectly sober and I get pulled over and go the route of.. I plead the 5th and not say a word.. The officer gets ticked off and arrests me for DUI... I then have to submit to testing... So they take a breath test and I offer a blood test and I even offer a hair sample to prove I am perfectly clean.. The tests all come back negative.......

Do I go after the police for a trumped up arrest ??? I would think they would be crappin in their shorts when they see I am totally clean and they had no legal reason to arrest me...


Then what happens ???:dunno::dunno:
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If you are pilot you need to report the arrest obviously. Interesting to send in a 0.00 breath test.

A prosecutor will not likely press the case.

Then the burden shifts to you to do something about it - Step #1 is filing a civil rights complaint with the civilian overwatch organization, if you have one, or with the department even - not likely that will get you anywhere.

You could see an attorney -but in my experience there is not likely going to be anyone paying money to press a Section 1981/1983 claim against the department - because you know how hard to prove it is that the arrest is a pretext - meaning they knew they had no probable cause but arrested you for exercising your rights . . . .

Only lawyers tend to play these games - its just another file in the office.
 
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