DUI, career killer?

[azure]

OP, I’d talk to these folks

https://www.leftseat.com/

Instead of Bruce? I think that is bad advice.

I, too, wondered where Bruce was coming from as the OP seemed to be taking full responsibility. But without the full picture, I'd hesitate to call him out for a single post that didn't quite gibe, out of respect for the enormous service he's done for this community over the years.

 

[James331]

Instead of Bruce? I think that is bad advice.

I, too, wondered where Bruce was coming from as the OP seemed to be taking full responsibility. But without the full picture, I'd hesitate to call him out for a single post that didn't quite gibe, out of respect for the enormous service he's done for this community over the years.

Because using a doc who ether randomly accuses you of lying, OR runs his mouth in public about what you say to him in private is a good thing to look for

 

[azure]

Because using a doc who ether randomly accuses you of lying, OR runs his mouth in public about what you say to him in private is a good thing to look for

We don't know that either is true. What we know is that Bruce has a very low tolerance for dishonesty. So there are three other possibilities that I can think of:

1. The OP did reach out to him and Bruce caught him in an outright lie. He's been known to publicly denounce people who do that to him. It's not as if he disclosed protected information.

2. There is some inconsistency in the OP's story that Bruce, as a doctor, picked up on, that you and I didn't.

3. Bruce has this thread confused with a different one - hopefully if that's the case, he'll apologize.

In short, I think you're jumping to conclusions here.

 

[James331]

We don't know that either is true. What we know is that Bruce has a very low tolerance for dishonesty. So there are three other possibilities that I can think of:

1. The OP did reach out to him and Bruce caught him in an outright lie. He's been known to publicly denounce people who do that to him. It's not as if he disclosed protected information.

2. There is some inconsistency in the OP's story that Bruce, as a doctor, picked up on, that you and I didn't.

3. Bruce has this thread confused with a different one - hopefully if that's the case, he'll apologize.

In short, I think you're jumping to conclusions here.

A good doctor doesn’t “publicly denounce” his patients, clients, etc on a public INTERNET forum, full f’ing stop.

There is a VERY good reason doctor / pt have the confidentiality they have, if someone is talking to you about their medical condition and you’re a doc, STFU about it.

If he magically read something EVERYONE else missed, well again reach out to the airman or have him contact you directly but don’t POST ABOUT IT on a PUBLIC INTERNET FORUM, talk about a way to make people NOT seek medical help.

 

[azure]

A good doctor doesn’t “publicly denounce” his patients, clients, etc on a public INTERNET forum, full f’ing stop.

There is a VERY good reason doctor / pt have the confidentiality they have, if someone is talking to you about their medical condition and you’re a doc, STFU about it.

If he magically read something EVERYONE else missed, well again reach out to the airman or have him contact you directly but don’t POST ABOUT IT on a PUBLIC INTERNET FORUM, talk about a way to make people NOT seek medical help.

First of all, certification advice is NOT the same thing as consultation for a medical condition, full stop. I fail to see how letting the group know that someone who has approached him for certification advice is a liar will discourage anyone from seeking MEDICAL help.

Yes, confidentiality still applies of course, as to MEDICAL information, but Bruce has revealed NOTHING of a confidential nature.

It's also possible the OP reached out to him informally, without engaging his services. In that case there is NO formal relationship between Bruce and the OP.

My money is still on Bruce having this OP confused with someone else, and that in the thread he's thinking of, the OP was ducking responsibility in a way that was clear to all. That has happened several times before, and he has apologized. Bruce sometimes mixes threads up, especially in late evening posts (see the timestamp, roughly 2300 CDT).

 

[James331]

First of all, certification advice is NOT the same thing as consultation for a medical condition, full stop. I fail to see how letting the group know that someone who has approached him for certification advice is a liar will discourage anyone from seeking MEDICAL help.

Yes, confidentiality still applies of course, as to MEDICAL information, but Bruce has revealed NOTHING of a confidential nature.

It's also possible the OP reached out to him informally, without engaging his services. In that case there is NO formal relationship between Bruce and the OP.

My money is still on Bruce having this OP confused with someone else, and that in the thread he's thinking of, the OP was ducking responsibility in a way that was clear to all. That has happened several times before, and he has apologized. Bruce sometimes mixes threads up, especially in late evening posts (see the timestamp, roughly 2300 CDT).

Not too long ago calling another man a liar likely would end up with someone laying flat on their back, but I get how saying another man has no honor isn’t a big deal anymore, times change.

So it’s cool if a doctor, who advertises his services, talks in public about non public conversations so long as he somehow consider himself “informal” or some nonsense like that?

Tons of medical people you can use who won’t publicly post about what you say to them one on one, dare I say the mass majority. Crazy as this sounds the two biggest roles for a medical is to 1 fix said problem, 2 STFU. There is a reason we have so many laws regarding medical people keeping their damn mouth shut, and a reason many companies have further rules that go above and beyond the laws.

 

[azure]

So it’s cool if a doctor, who advertises his services, talks in public about non public conversations so long as he somehow consider himself “informal” or some nonsense like that?

I didn't say it was cool, I said it is likely not a violation of any doctor-patient confidentiality laws. Again, you're assuming he is denouncing someone he knows professionally, in a public setting. My guess is whoever he is talking about he has no professional relationship with, and is basing his comments on that person being in clear denial (from his postings on this board) about his situation.

 

[James331]

I didn't say it was cool, I said it is likely not a violation of any doctor-patient confidentiality laws. Again, you're assuming he is denouncing someone he knows professionally, in a public setting. My guess is whoever he is talking about he has no professional relationship with, and is basing his comments on that person being in clear denial (from his postings on this board) about his situation.

Where did he says anything like denial?

I thought if anything he was long winded with his mea culpas, I mean what are you looking for? Want a video of him committing harry carry or something?

Again, you don’t go call a man a liar on a public forum without being able to back that chit up, and coming from someone who anyone here might trust, and has advertised to trust, with their medical, potentially how they put food on their family table...

 

[MuseChaser]

Not too long ago calling another man a liar likely would end up with someone laying flat on their back, but I get how saying another man has no honor isn’t a big deal anymore, times change...

I'm glad we've moved past the time, not too long ago, that words were seen by some people as a reason to punch someone else. If an honorless man acuses me of having no honor, it doesn't bother me a bit. If a man worthy of honor accuses me of having no honor, I generally pause and examine myself to see what I may have done to merit the accusation. If I can't come up with something, then I and the other honorable man will have a conversation and attempt to come to a mutual understanding. Words are only a big deal if you allow them to affect you. Times have changed, and not necessarily for the good, but I'm glad that one of the changes has been that solving disagreements with fists has become increasingly identified as the Neanderthal behavior it is. James, weren't you, fairly recently, decrying the necessity for folks developing thicker skins?

I didn't understand Doc Bruce's post either, but I've talked with him many years ago, Skyped with him, and seen about a zillion helpful posts of his. Some of his posts can be a bit cryptic, and a kind, understanding bedside manner isn't always evident in his posts especially when the person asking for his advice becomes argumentative, but he is the definition of honorable. I didn't see anything in the OP's posts that smacked of dishonesty, so perhaps Doc DID post in the wrong thread... there's certainly been more than a few examples where @bbchien would have been more than justified calling at an OP for being disingenuous within certain threads, and he may have thought this was one of those other threads?

 

[azure]

Where did he says anything like denial?

I thought if anything he was long winded with his mea culpas, I mean what are you looking for? Want a video of him committing harry carry or something?

Read carefully. I said "whoever he was talking about". I don't think the good doc was talking about this OP. I think he was confusing two threads and was actually thinking of someone else. As @MuseChaser said, there have been more than a few threads like that.

 

[James331]

If he was talking about ANYONE who he spoke with as a doctor, or about a one on one conversation/PM/email that was started because he is a doc, that’s 100% unacceptable.


And you’re right, now a days punching is icky, these days call a lawyer and go after the person in court,or talk to their state attorney general or medical board folks

Not sure it’s to this level, but worth a read
https://www.hipaajournal.com/what-are-the-penalties-for-hipaa-violations-7096/

 

[bluerooster]

Eh? That isn't true. The FCRA prohibits employers from using adverse information that is more than seven years past the date of disposition (end of confinement, probation, etc...). However, the information is still there. If the employee is expected to make more then $75,000 (while the depressed commuter pilot salary is below this, it doesn't take much of a higher trip up the ladder to pass this), the seven year limit DOES NOT APPLY (at least federally, the states all have their own rules).

Further, your statement about it being limited to LE is false. Certainly, agencies (like the FAA) will have access.

Doing a bit of personal investigations (other than employment), I can tell you the service I subscribe to has stuff going back twenty years or more.

I never said the info isn't there. But you cannot (in most states) go to the state patrol office and obtain your driving record dating farther back than 7 years. And neither can a prospective employer. I think I mentioned that LE and the feds can access all information on record back as far as there are records.

 

[azure]

If he was talking about ANYONE who he spoke with as a doctor, or about a one on one conversation/PM/email that was started because he is a doc, that’s 100% unacceptable.

I know of NO cases where Bruce has spoken that way about someone identifiable to the public based on privileged information.

If an anonymous poster were to lie to Bruce in an email and perpetuate that lie on the board, do you really think it would be inappropriate for him to point out on the board that the anon is a liar? Seems to me it would save people on the board the waste of energy involved in trying to help the poster, and I don't see how HIPAA would enter into it unless he got into the details of the case.

 

[flyingron]

Exactly. Once it's hoovered up by the private databases, you can expect it to be public forever.

The seven year thing doesn't apply to the government. Seven years is a fallacy. It only applies in very limited circumstances.

 

[James331]

I know of NO cases where Bruce has spoken that way about someone identifiable to the public based on privileged information.

If an anonymous poster were to lie to Bruce in an email and perpetuate that lie on the board, do you really think it would be inappropriate for him to point out on the board that the anon is a liar? Seems to me it would save people on the board the waste of energy involved in trying to help the poster, and I don't see how HIPAA would enter into it unless he got into the details of the case.

NO.

If you’re a doc and someone talks to you as a doc STFU

It’s really simple, like first responders, EMT-Bs, FD, etc all seem to get it.

 

[flyingron]

I never said the info isn't there. But you cannot (in most states) go to the state patrol office and obtain your driving record dating farther back than 7 years. And neither can a prospective employer. I think I mentioned that LE and the feds can access all information on record back as far as there are records.

Unless you're in one of the few states where DUI is not a crime, the DRIVING record is immaterial. You've been convicted of a criminal misdemeanor and by and large, that's forever.

And nobody said squat about the state patrol. And you're still wrong in general. There's nothing magic about seven years in many states. For Virginia, DMV pulls go backi 11 years, for example.

 

[bbchien]

I love this board (not). You basically get slandered by someone...James whoever you really are, what you are talkin' about has NEVER EVER happened. But since no good deed goes unpunished, keep at it, bro.

 

[James331]

I love this board (not). You basically get slandered by someone...James whoever you really are, what you are talkin' about has NEVER EVER happened. But since no good deed goes unpunished, keep at it, bro.

Read your own post

Slander? Me or you? I said it was wrong for you to call the OP a liar

You called the man a liar, you said he wasn’t being honest when he went on for like a paragraph on how he screwed up, I think you should apologize to the man, people arnt coming to you to be judged and belittled, but for medical advice.

 

[RyanB]

James, you need to get a grip. It seems you’ve misconstrued the words of Doc Bruce, as he never revealed any kind of confidential material in the public space. Last I checked, declaring someone to be less than truthful isn’t a breach of HIPAA.

Regardless, a DUI is completely irresponsible from any way you look at it and there’s no excuse for it. It’s also not a good accolade to have on a background check either. I have sympathy for a lot of things, but I don’t have much when it comes to folks who let the bottle get the best of them. It’s unfortunate and I wish him the best.

 

[James331]

James, you need to get a grip. It seems you’ve misconstrued the words of Doc Bruce, as he never revealed any kind of confidential material in the public space. Last I checked, declaring someone to be less than truthful isn’t a breach of HIPAA.

Regardless, a DUI is completely irresponsible from any way you look at it and there’s no excuse for it. It’s also not a good accolade to have on a background check either. I have sympathy for a lot of things, but I don’t have much when it comes to folks who let the bottle get the best of them. It’s unfortunate and I wish him the best.

These are simple and to the point words

I’m not going to be able to help until he’s willing to be straight and own up.
Lying is not a sustainable strategy.....

He can have it easy or he can have it hard....

I stand by what I said.

At least the OP was man enough to admit he F’ed up, guess what we all screw up, even you, what’s the important part is what you do after the screw up, do you own it and learn.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t even see a apology to the OP for calling him a liar. I agree with Bruce about “own up”, maybe the doc doesn’t like his own medicine

 

[RyanB]

These are simple and to the point words



I stand by what I said.

At least the OP was man enough to admit he F’ed up, guess what we all screw up, even you, what’s the important part is what you do after the screw up, do you own it and learn.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t even see a apology to the OP for calling him a liar. I agree with Bruce about “own up”, maybe the doc doesn’t like his own medicine

Unless you have an inside connection to the OP, how do you know that he’s being completely truthful? I’ll say it again, but Bruce isn’t the kind to just throw around false accusations without having evidence.

 

[rsleeds]

At least the OP was man enough to admit he F’ed up, guess what we all screw up, even you, what’s the important part is what you do after the screw up, do you own it and learn.

And subsequently went on a rant about how he's entitled to expungement and to pretend this didn't happen. Yes, there are tap dance words about knowing he has to answer a certain way on the medical versus job applications, but there is certainly enough to believe that he is far from owning this mistake. I do believe he knows he screwed up big time, but he also gives off vibes that he thinks he should get a pass on it because he hasn't screwed up again in the last few months. As far as the Doc goes, I took his comment as a general view of the whole conversation from the OP not anything specific.

 

[James331]

And subsequently went on a rant about how he's entitled to expungement and to pretend this didn't happen. Yes, there are tap dance words about knowing he has to answer a certain way on the medical versus job applications, but there is certainly enough to believe that he is far from owning this mistake. I do believe he knows he screwed up big time, but he also gives off vibes that he thinks he should get a pass on it because he hasn't screwed up again in the last few months. As far as the Doc goes, I took his comment as a general view of the whole conversation from the OP not anything specific.

A pass? Uhh, it’s called how the law works, that’s like saying if you’re found not guilty you got a pass or tap dance, give me a break.

There’s the job app part and there’s the FAA medical part, I don’t see anything he wrote that looks like he’s not taking responsibility or being dishonest. Sounds like someone who made a mistake, learned from it and is trying to get on with his life.

 

[NoHeat]

This thread started out wonderfully, with great info, then it was spoiled by a troll.

Dunno if I’m the only one, but for over a year now I’ve found that blocking the troll (the one on this thread) makes my PoA experience less aggravating, with nothing of value lost.

 

[bluerooster]

Unless you're in one of the few states where DUI is not a crime, the DRIVING record is immaterial. You've been convicted of a criminal misdemeanor and by and large, that's forever.

And nobody said squat about the state patrol. And you're still wrong in general. There's nothing magic about seven years in many states. For Virginia, DMV pulls go backi 11 years, for example.

So, In VA, a potential employer can get your driving record that goes back to day 1? I seriously doubt it.

 

[RyanB]

So, In VA, a potential employer can get your driving record that goes back to day 1? I seriously doubt it.

Who said anything about retrieving a driving record back to day one?

Once you get booked with a DUI, you’ve pretty much shot yourself in the foot - in more ways than one.

 

[flyingron]

So, In VA, a potential employer can get your driving record that goes back to day 1? I seriously doubt it.

I said 11 years for Virginia for a DMV record pull.

And in Virginia, if you get a DUI conviction, that is FOREVER. Virginia does not allow expungement, sealing, or related relief on most convictions (including DUI).

 

[James331]

This thread started out wonderfully, with great info, then it was spoiled by a troll.

Dunno if I’m the only one, but for over a year now I’ve found that blocking the troll (the one on this thread) makes my PoA experience less aggravating, with nothing of value lost.

Sucks when open discussion mentally hurts you so much you have to block someone.

You blocked Bruce?

 

[AggieMike88]

-- sigh --