Dui 2 years ago

Z

Zach Smith

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zach
curious what I'm in for as far as getting me medical for ppl. Had a dui 2 years ago. I'm about 4 hours into training thanks in advance
 
Use the search function on this website, particularly in the Medical Matters section, to read replies to similar questions. Depending on the particulars of your case, it may be time consuming and expensive, or flat out impossible. If it is your first and only DUI and you had a relatively low Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) when tested, it won't be bad. Good luck, Zach!

-Skip
 
This is a cut and paste item I have when another airmen who "was about to solo" when he stopped by our humble forum for advice on his alcoholic background.

While this had 2 DUI incidents, much of what is here also applies to folks who have just a single incident. So hopefully this will help @Zach Smith and others.

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That you have on record incidents where you were arrested for DUI events, that is very big thing that the FAA will want to want to know about. And they will want to know everything about you and alcohol.

And what they want to know isn’t just those single points in time.

They want to know SIGNIFICANTLY more about your overall physical and psychological makeup that got you to. Wing arrested for DUI and allows you to get there.

You tell us here on the forum about your incidents where you are caught by law enforcement. But what about all of the other times where your BAC was in the legally drunk spectrum, but you didn't have any encounters with law enforcement?

And keep in mind, this isn't about your ability to "hold your liquor", but that something inside is wanting alcohol, and because you have developed a tolerance level, you need to drink more in order to obtain the pleasure effects. So there may be some level of addiction going on, even if it is low.

The FAA acts as a warden to prevent individuals that have developed a tolerance for medium to high alcohol limits from obtaining and exercising pilot privileges. So for individuals such as yourself, the ball will be placed squarely in your court to prove beyond shadows of doubt that you are willing to prove you are worthy of flying privileges by doing everything they will ask of you.

The letter you are going to get regarding your deferred medical certificate will have the specific details of what the FAA wants. If you search through various pilot forums, such as the Red Board of AOPA and the blue one for Pilots of America, and you will see that the requirements to satisfy the FAA will include

  • A $9000 to $12,000 budget to pay for they various things the FAA will require of you. This includes the direct costs of exams as well as the travel costs to the different professionals whom you need to see during this journey
  • A neuro cognative psychological screen of extreme depth that only a very few HIMS psychologists can administer, paid for out of your pocket. Health insurance is unlikely to cover this costs. These very few HIMS psychologists are not publicly listed and you can only see them by referral of the Senior HIMS AME's
  • Direct sponsorship with a Senior HIMS AME, to whom you report to frequently and to whom you must demonstrate you are doing what is required to earn the medical certificate. There are very, very few of these AME’s, so plan onfrequent travel to see the one who is working your case. A list of the HIMS AME's can be found on the FAA.gov website
  • 90 days of intensive alcohol dependency treatment. This will likely be in the form of in-patient treatment.
  • 100% sobriety and abstinence from all alcohol. Wine with girlfriend and beer or shots with buddies is now verboten, für immer, for ever, zauvijek, pour toujours, aeternum!!
  • Documented routine attendance with alcohol dependency meetings (think Alcoholics Anonymous or similar), and this could be for a significant amount of time.
  • Many, many random pee in the cup whiz quizzes all documenting you are remaining 100% sober
  • And much, much more.
All of this must be done in exacting detail for you to be granted a Special Issuance medical. Only after continued proven 100% sobriety for a looooong period of time will you be allowed back into the normal issuance group.

Reading this and then saying back to us, “but I am not an alcoholic, I do not have a drinking problem” is an incorrect response.

That you have two DUI events is a strong indicator that, per the FAA standards, there is a problem.

The correct response is saying, “fine, I have a problem. Let’s get with meeting the requirements and make this thing happen.”

Humble and humility wins the day over arrogance and unwillingness to accept and change.

((and before anyone starts jumping on my head about my list, these are details developed from listening to Dr. Bruce Chien help others in this same predicament. I know many of you have high respect for him, so be kind in your critiques))

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"But I did what the judge asked (or my attorney advised) and my DUI incident or incidents have been expunged or reduced to not being a minor felony or major misdemeanor associated with alcohol"

"But my situation didn't escalate to where charges were filed against me."​

Do not confuse criminal law with the FAA's administrative law. The DUI events will ALWAYS remain on your records. In the FAA's view, no items, even ones you were told were expunged, are every truly gone. The fact they happened, and are discoverable in your background check, still matters to the FAA.

The preamble to the question you answered was "HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE...." which for you means, yes, it did happen, and yes you will still be held accountable for these events by the FAA. And must ALWAYS answer Yes to the appropriate block on MedXpress Question 18.
 
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As @Skip Miller said, use the search function for threads discussing DUI and alcohol offenses. As you read the threads, look for commentary from Dr. Bruce Chien, on of this country's top Aviation Medical Examiners, especially for cases involving substance dependency and depression/anxiety/SSRI medications.
 
bbchien said:
Zach:

Is it your “one and only” event?
And.....
Did you blow?....if so, what did you blow?
Click to expand...
Thanks for mentioning these two points.

I will include them in my cut and paste.
 
The big number here is 0.15 BAC. If you were below that and only have one, the AME can issue in the office. FAA will still ask for follow up information and you'll want to make sure you know what you're doing when you provide what they ask for, but you'll be flying in the meantime with an approved medical.

If you're at or above 0.15 BAC, or refused, the AME is required to defer and welcome to The Program.
 
went to ame 3 months ago I was deffered due to a dui in 2018 sent in my records that they requested and now I have been provided a denial and a letter about seeing a hims ame along with random drug screens for the next 13 months but no less than 14. Talking about treatment as well and that isn't possible due to a full time job. What am I in for? I'm in kansas city area.
 
KeepWatch said:
The big number here is 0.15 BAC
Click to expand...
holy crap.. that is a big number! 0.15?!

I understand people have different tolerances, but to get to 0.15 you're basically drinking just to get drunk.. that's what, like pounding a 6 pack in one hour.. one beer every 10 minutes?

Yikes.
 
Tantalum, it’s even worse than that. A standard 170 lb FAA person would have to consume 8 beers or shots, or a bottle and a half of wine in a short time to get that alcohol level. Reduce BAC by 1% for every hour after the drink. Just looking at my EAA members, I’m guessing most men are closer to the 200 lb level so we’re talking 9 or 10 drinks.

You don’t hit those levels if you’ve had a few drinks with dinner. I have no idea how you could even get that drunk but apparently people can.


BAC Level.png


https://lawdailylife.com/blood-alcohol-level-chart-bac-level/
 
Lindberg said:
The trick is being that drunk and still being able to stand.
Click to expand...
And if you can do that you are TOLERANT, and if you are tolerant you have been drinkin long and hard. That means you need/get REHAB and you will get monitored forever for all your flying days.
 
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JScarry said:
Tantalum, it’s even worse than that. A standard 170 lb FAA person would have to consume 8 beers or shots, or a bottle and a half of wine in a short time to get that alcohol level. Reduce BAC by 1% for every hour after the drink. Just looking at my EAA members, I’m guessing most men are closer to the 200 lb level so we’re talking 9 or 10 drinks.

You don’t hit those levels if you’ve had a few drinks with dinner. I have no idea how you could even get that drunk but apparently people can.


View attachment 90354

https://lawdailylife.com/blood-alcohol-level-chart-bac-level/
Click to expand...
Wow, I can have 4 beers and be legal. I usually let the wife drive after one.
 
My wife was playing with one of those BAC calculators once and she says "Hey, you can have five drinks where I can only have one."
It's not that you drink to much, it's just that you're underweight.
 
flyingron said:
My wife was playing with one of those BAC calculators once and she says "Hey, you can have five drinks where I can only have one."
It's not that you drink to much, it's just that you're underweight.
Click to expand...


So a beer belly let’s you drink more? Win-win!
 
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