Dropped the new bird at the avionics shop Friday!

N747JB

N747JB

Final Approach
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John
I flew the Conquest down to FFC, Falcon Field on Friday afternoon for the big install.:D Part of me is very excited, part of me is a little worried about the downtime and cost, mostly the cost part. ;)
Anyway, they are taking pretty much everything out of the panel except the autopilot, the radar and the co-pilot's instruments.:yikes:
I am having a G600 installed along with a GTN 650/750 combo, with dual remote transponders, a remote audio panel and a GDL 88 for ADS-B along with a new standby vacuum attitude indicator.
Pulling out the 530W, 2 Collins comms and 2 Collins navs, Collins dual remote transponders, Collins ADF, dual audio panels and appropriate indicators including 1 RMI, and one DME.
The good news is they are saying 2 1/2 to 3 weeks,:yes: the bad news is I don't believe them.:mad2:
I scheduled it when I have plans for the next 3 weekends that will keep me at home, so getting it back in 4 weeks won't ruin my summer. :D
I think I am putting the 530W in the 182, so either the 430W or 530W will be for sale around the first of June along with tons of great Collins digital remote radios and indicators. :D
 
Wow, serious aircraft, will now have serious panel, please show us pictures when it is all done. Congrats!
 
olasek said:
Wow, serious aircraft, will now have serious panel, please show us pictures when it is all done. Congrats!
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I'm going to try to go down there a couple times and take pictures, but mainly to make sure they are working on it. ;) I really don't want to find out three weeks from now they are just pulling it IN to the hangar!!:mad2::mad2:
 
You'll love the G600. I've been flying the G500 for 18 months now and highly recommend it.
 
somorris said:
Whoa. Get out your checkbook :).
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It started out just putting in the G600 and a GDL 69A for weather and radio.......then I looked at swapping the 530 for a 750.:D Well then the audio panels needed to be replaced with a newer single one.......well while we've got the panel torn apart, we might as well swap out the old transponders for a mode S......and since we're doing all this, why not dump all the old navs and comms and put in a 650 too! :D Kinda like changing the wallpaper in the kitchen and ending up with a new kitchen!:mad2:
 
N747JB said:
It started out just putting in the G600 and a GDL 69A for weather and radio.......then I looked at swapping the 530 for a 750.:D Well then the audio panels needed to be replaced with a newer single one.......well while we've got the panel torn apart, we might as well swap out the old transponders for a mode S......and since we're doing all this, why not dump all the old navs and comms and put in a 650 too! :D Kinda like changing the wallpaper in the kitchen and ending up with a new kitchen!:mad2:
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That's the only way to go IMO. Nothing looks as out of place as a 750 next to an old audio panel and transponder. Do it all ONCE, fix the wiring, buy all the things that play nice together, increase your dispatch rate and resale value.

Painful maybe, but 100% the correct decision, no doubt.
 
Here's a slightly fuzzy before picture, I dropped off the deposit this morning and they are supposed to start on her tomorrow. Luckily it's not to far from the house and since I "need" to fly the 182 more, I plan on checking in on her a couple times, mainly to make sure we are on schedule. ;)
 
N747JB said:
Kinda like changing the wallpaper in the kitchen and ending up with a new kitchen!:mad2:
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One of my friends started off with making a bigger kitchen for his wife. It turned into a "renovation" that doubled the square footage of the house, added 2 floors, I forget how many bathrooms and bedrooms, and went from a 2 car to a 4 car garage. I think that's more what you're doing. ;)

Looking forward to the in progress shots! When are you painting the new tail number on?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
One of my friends started off with making a bigger kitchen for his wife. It turned into a "renovation" that doubled the square footage of the house, added 2 floors, I forget how many bathrooms and bedrooms, and went from a 2 car to a 4 car garage. I think that's more what you're doing. ;)

Looking forward to the in progress shots! When are you painting the new tail number on?
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I'm waiting until I get the N number off Charlene and then I will schedule to have this one painted. I did some remodeling on the dealership 3 years ago, it started out as a simple weekend project to enlarge the customer waiting area......................................8 weeks and $200K later it was finished!:D But, it looks good!!!:yes:
 
Here's a little update, they've got it torn apart, heck I could have taken it apart, the putting back together is the tough part. :D
Not a great picture, but they were working and I didn't want to slow them down! ;)
 
Geez, that's fewer wires and looks easier to access than the 310.

Somehow I doubt that will result in a lower cost. :D
 
Well, I went down to the shop today to see where they are going to mount the autopilot mode controller. It's going to the right side of the center panel.:D
BUT, they wanted to have a sit down to discuss the work being done and make sure everyone is on the same page, which is fine, we found a couple questions that need to be answered.;)
The big surprise came when the lead installation guy said he had used almost all the labor allowance for the removal of the old equipment and old wiring!:yikes:
Well, I was caught a little off guard.:yikes: I hope I am not in for a battle, but I suspect it's safe to safe they are expecting substantially more $$$ than we agreed to.:nono::nono: I'll post an updated picture tomorrow, it's taken apart even more than the last picture.
 
N747JB said:
The big surprise came when the lead installation guy said he had used almost all the labor allowance for the removal of the old equipment and old wiring!:yikes:
Well, I was caught a little off guard.:yikes: I hope I am not in for a battle, but I suspect it's safe to safe they are expecting substantially more $$$ than we agreed to.:nono::nono:
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Did they give you a written estimate? Is there a clause that allows them to escalate the charges?

If he is claiming he used almost all of his "labor allowance" to remove equipment sounds to me like he needs to learn to estimate better, his problem not yours.
 
N747JB said:
Well, I went down to the shop today to see where they are going to mount the autopilot mode controller. It's going to the right side of the center panel.:D
BUT, they wanted to have a sit down to discuss the work being done and make sure everyone is on the same page, which is fine, we found a couple questions that need to be answered.;)
The big surprise came when the lead installation guy said he had used almost all the labor allowance for the removal of the old equipment and old wiring!:yikes:
Well, I was caught a little off guard.:yikes: I hope I am not in for a battle, but I suspect it's safe to safe they are expecting substantially more $$$ than we agreed to.:nono::nono: I'll post an updated picture tomorrow, it's taken apart even more than the last picture.
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Hmmmm,,,

Used up all the allocated labor on the removal process alone..:dunno::mad2::redface:..

Fasten your seatbelt.. VERY tight.. You are in for a bumpy business deal.:eek:
 
N801BH said:
Hmmmm,,,

Used up all the allocated labor on the removal process alone..:dunno::mad2::redface:..

Fasten your seatbelt.. VERY tight.. You are in for a bumpy business deal.:eek:
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I sent the company president, who was in the meeting today, an email tonight expressing my concerns about the comments about the labor charges. :nono:
I told her the quote included labor and that removing the old wiring was part of the installation. I know there are a couple things not on the quote that I am having done and of course I expect to pay for those items. I'm not panicking, nor do I want to overreact, but I wanted her to know that I won't be paying double the estimated labor on the final bill! :no:
I guess I'll hear from her tomorrow. :dunno:
 
I've had this same sort of issue with other avionics shops. They grossly underestimate the labor based on some ideal airplane that doesn't exist, and then the charges end up much higher. Sometimes they also did work I didn't ask to be done, even though it was good work to do. It also wouldn't surprise me if the plane legitimately had things like old wiring that was unremoved, etc, but that should be expected in the quote since it seems pretty much every airplane has that.

I'm sure you'll handle it properly and have a favorable outcome, at least for you. :D
 
Is this the same shop that has done your prior work? If so, do they think you've come down with a bad case of stupid since the last one?

N747JB said:
I sent the company president, who was in the meeting today, an email tonight expressing my concerns about the comments about the labor charges. :nono:
I told her the quote included labor and that removing the old wiring was part of the installation. I know there are a couple things not on the quote that I am having done and of course I expect to pay for those items. I'm not panicking, nor do I want to overreact, but I wanted her to know that I won't be paying double the estimated labor on the final bill! :no:
I guess I'll hear from her tomorrow. :dunno:
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Yesterday's picture, if I had to put it back together, it would be totalled! :yikes:

 
wabower said:
Is this the same shop that has done your prior work? If so, do they think you've come down with a bad case of stupid since the last one?
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Yeah, they did my Aspen install in Charlene and I practically forced a buddy of mine to get his G600 installed there! I am not going to worry too much until I here some type of $$ figure, then I can get a battle plan together. ;)
 
N747JB said:
Yeah, they did my Aspen install in Charlene and I practically forced a buddy of mine to get his G600 installed there! I am not going to worry too much until I here some type of $$ figure, then I can get a battle plan together. ;)
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Ahh, they forgot a 425 had turbines and didn't charge the associated funny smell fee. ;)

If you've had good prior experience with them then I'm sure they'll make good on the end result. At least if they hope to get you back again!
 
I did discover one more thing yesterday that sort of caught me off guard, they don't think the GDL88 weather will display on the G600, it will on the GTN750, but not the G600:mad2::mad2: So, what am I going to put on the MFD side of the G600?? I am probably not buying the chartview, so I will be using the 750 for everything?
I have pretty much decided to not install the GDL88 and go with the GDL69A, pay for the weather, I already have traffic and I'll worry about 2020 when it gets closer. ;)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Ahh, they forgot a 425 had turbines and didn't charge the associated funny smell fee. ;)

If you've had good prior experience with them then I'm sure they'll make good on the end result. At least if they hope to get you back again!
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You're probably not too far off! :rolleyes:
 
N747JB said:
You're probably not too far off! :rolleyes:
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The first time I took the Aztec or 310 to the avionics shop involved a lot of extra labor. In the case of the 310, they removed 65 lbs of crap. Old wires, inop equipment, just all kinds of junk. Basically, the avionics had been hacked up over time in various ways for little jobs here and there, and nobody bothered to do it right and pull out other wires and stuff. It wouldnng part of that. It just seems to happen over time with old planes. Since the labor in that case was donated, I didn't have to negotiate anything.

When the 310 went in for subsequent avionics jobs that were of similar complexity, the work was way, way easier, even on different shops that were charging me for labor. The bill reflected that.
 
What kind of pizzes me off is almost all the avionics are original Collins digital, with the exception of the 530W, the Stormscope and the Skywatch 497, so it shouldn't be a lot of unexpected wiring to clean up.:mad2:
I will go down again next week and check on it again, just for fun and to keep pressure on them to stay on schedule. :D

Ted DuPuis said:
The first time I took the Aztec or 310 to the avionics shop involved a lot of extra labor. In the case of the 310, they removed 65 lbs of crap. Old wires, inop equipment, just all kinds of junk. Basically, the avionics had been hacked up over time in various ways for little jobs here and there, and nobody bothered to do it right and pull out other wires and stuff. It wouldnng part of that. It just seems to happen over time with old planes. Since the labor in that case was donated, I didn't have to negotiate anything.

When the 310 went in for subsequent avionics jobs that were of similar complexity, the work was way, way easier, even on different shops that were charging me for labor. The bill reflected that.
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N747JB said:
What kind of pizzes me off is almost all the avionics are original Collins digital, with the exception of the 530W, the Stormscope and the Skywatch 497, so it shouldn't be a lot of unexpected wiring to clean up.:mad2:
I will go down again next week and check on it again, just for fun and to keep pressure on them to stay on schedule. :D
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Yeah, you'd figure it shouldn't be too bad. Then again it seems the newer stuff is more efficiently packed. But as you said, it shouldn't be unexpected. I'd be curious as to what snags they had.

What annoyed me was the shop that did the Aztec's work. They took it upon themselves to "fix" a lot of things that weren't broken. The wok was good and did result in a rock solid avionics platform the remaining 4 years I had it, but it wasn't even remotely in the workscope.
 
Yesteday's unexpected meeting was to discuss the scope of work, which I appreciate, but if I hadn't gone down there to look at the autopilot control head issue, would we have had a meeting?:dunno:
I am not niave enough to think the final bill will be the same as the estimate/quote, it has never happened to me in 28 years of flying and maintaining airplanes.:rolleyes2: But, I just don't want any HUGE surprise at the end.;)

Ted DuPuis said:
Yeah, you'd figure it shouldn't be too bad. Then again it seems the newer stuff is more efficiently packed. But as you said, it shouldn't be unexpected. I'd be curious as to what snags they had.

What annoyed me was the shop that did the Aztec's work. They took it upon themselves to "fix" a lot of things that weren't broken. The wok was good and did result in a rock solid avionics platform the remaining 4 years I had it, but it wasn't even remotely in the workscope.
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N747JB said:
Yesteday's unexpected meeting was to discuss the scope of work, which I appreciate, but if I hadn't gone down there to look at the autopilot control head issue, would we have had a meeting?:dunno:
I am not niave enough to think the final bill will be the same as the estimate/quote, it has never happened to me in 28 years of flying and maintaining airplanes.:rolleyes2: But, I just don't want any HUGE surprise at the end.;)
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Same here. I don't make a big deal so long as it's close or there was a legitimate issue that nobody could have known about.

When I had the radar installed in the 310 the communication was poor, it was done late (and that was after giving them 2 weeks more than they said they needed) and I ended up with a bill for 2x the quote. I explained to the owner that there was no way in hell I was paying more than the quote. Problem solved.
 
flhrci said:
If only everything could talk via WiFi you would only need a few power wires.

David
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The certification requirements on that would be a real nightmare, if you could even accomplish it. My guess is no. I see too many concerns with DO-160 to make that work.

That said, a modern, integrated system should require only a few shielded wires to transfer all the required data, plus a few power wires. You could make significant improvements in ease of installation and weight reduction.
 
Latest snag, my one piece headliner is made of some exotic leather, Ultra Leather, and MAY be damaged when they take it down for the antenna installation! They are having an interior guy take it down tomorrow. Fingers crossed, the estimate for a replacement is $4900.00 :yikes:
 
N747JB said:
Latest snag, my one piece headliner is made of some exotic leather, Ultra Leather, and MAY be damaged when they take it down for the antenna installation! They are having an interior guy take it down tomorrow. Fingers crossed, the estimate for a replacement is $4900.00 :yikes:
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A staple gun and a towel will fix it, if you have to replace it. :) :) :)

Kidding of course...

Amazing how projects like this always snowball, and snowball, and snowball...
 
Isn't there some cheaper material it could be made out of that doesn't cost $5,000? :dunno:
 
You should have scheduled this about three weeks ago since it has rained every weekend since!
 
flhrci said:
If only everything could talk via WiFi you would only need a few power wires.

David
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This is scary! I would be afraid to fly it after seeing this.
 
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