Drones : Threat or Menace?

JimNtexas

JimNtexas

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Jim - In Texas!
Dumb Mistletoe Drone Cut Somebody's Face Open

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A private airplane just took out a mom and two kids, despite all the rules. This week drones are a bit less of a menace then private jets.
 
Regulation wouldn't even do anything in this instance, it was inside a private establishment.

What will happen is the insurance industry will handle the 'regulation' of these things.
 
As Forrest Gump said: "Stupid is as stupid does."
 
The FAA has jurisdiction over the airspace inside private buildings?

Fascinating.
 
Both a threat and a menace,the more they build the more of a problem they will be to the ,public and GA.
 
frfly172 said:
Both a threat and a menace,the more they build the more of a problem they will be to the ,public and GA.
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Fascinating.

By the way, to the OP: amusing use of the fallacy of false alternatives.
 
Neither a threat, or a menace. Just an annoyance. Annoying as they buzz around airports like birds. Unlike birds though, they fully understand what is going on in the airport environment and they were not there first over many millennia. Additional annoyance as they post endless, pointless, boring videos on YouTube. :rolleyes:
 
You have to admit that these toys and the tech behind them are hella-cool, my brother has one and I just did an annual on a buddies Bonanza who has a really boss hexa-copter. They both have 3 axis gimbaled HD video but alas, we live in a society in which we can't trust people with a can of spray paint or a tube of plastic cement to the point that we have to keep them in locked cages at the hardware store.

How to solve that issue is a much deeper question.
 
Silvaire said:
You have to admit that these toys and the tech behind them are hella-cool, my brother has one and I just did an annual on a buddies Bonanza who has a really boss hexa-copter. They both have 3 axis gimbaled HD video but alas, we live in a society in which we can't trust people with a can of spray paint or a tube of plastic cement to the point that we have to keep them in locked cages at the hardware store.

How to solve that issue is a much deeper question.
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This technology is what will become flying cars.
 
Ba ha ha ha :rofl:

Dumb and dumber in a TGI Fridays with a bunch of spinning blades, that reporter and the radio control operator probably were the kids who put forks into power outlets as kids, probably pee into the wind too.


Besides what would the mighty FAA do, take away some of his TGI "flare" pins :dunno:


I say let em be, biggest issue I have was that there were no photos or video.
 
Dav8or said:
Neither a threat, or a menace. Just an annoyance. Annoying as they buzz around airports like birds. Unlike birds though, they fully understand what is going on in the airport environment and they were not there first over many millennia. Additional annoyance as they post endless, pointless, boring videos on YouTube. :rolleyes:
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In capable and creative hands though, they are a very inexpensive platform to get shots that used to take over a million dollars of equipment or would be straight up impossible. I have also found them an excellent resource for picking my way through a reef as I can get a clean vertical view of me in relation to the coral heads in real time. That has proven quite useful in the last few weeks.
 
It happened in a bar?

Bars can be menace. The owners. The managers. The customers, too. Often not much common sense in a bar.

This incident reminds me of a stunt gone wrong in a student bar here. Bar manager heard of an impressive trick where alcohol burns in a flash along the length of the bar. So he tried it, with innocent customers standing by. People got burned, and the fire department was called.

Dumb.
 
Dav8or said:
Neither a threat, or a menace. Just an annoyance. Annoying as they buzz around airports like birds. Unlike birds though, they fully understand what is going on in the airport environment and they were not there first over many millennia. Additional annoyance as they post endless, pointless, boring videos on YouTube. :rolleyes:
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just wait til drone pics of you sunbathing nude in your back yard show up on the internet. :lol:
 
I'm sure the idiots of the commercial drone world would never fly their drones outdoors.
 
zaitcev said:
When drones are outlawed, only outlaws will have drones. And they will cut somebody's face just the same.

I wish I could say that I'm surprised that someone thinks that regulation would be helpful here, but I'm not. Many people cry "there ought to be a law!" before they take time to think.
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Yeah, regulating this through the legal system is beyond silly. This is where the insurance industry can earn their keep. I doubt there would be a great penalty to these devices to put soft tips on the blades so if they do hit you they won't slice you. I don't see this as a complicated issue really, the solution seems obvious enough, people will learn what they shouldn't be doing, the units can be made safer, I have seen some rotors with a solid ring around the tips. The industry makes a safer product or doesn't get product liability insurance, and people get more careful hearing stories like this.

There is absolutely no need to have government get involved in this at all, and I can't see where governmental jurisdiction even applies here, this is a strictly civil matter unless the act and results are criminal, then the charge that applies is an assault charge.
 
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Henning said:
Yeah, regulating this through the legal system is beyond silly. This is where the insurance industry can earn their keep. I doubt there would be a great penalty to these devices to put soft tips on the blades so if they do hit you they won't slice you. I don't see this as a complicated issue really, the solution seems obvious enough, people will learn what they shouldn't be doing, the units can be made safer, I have seen some rotors with a solid ring around the tips. The industry makes a safer product or doesn't get product liability insurance, and people get more careful hearing stories like this.



There is absolutely no need to have government get involved in this at all, and I can't see where governmental jurisdiction even applies here, this is a strictly civil matter unless the act and results are criminal, then the charge that applies is an assault charge.
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That's very anti-government of you. I'm
Impressed.

So let's not handle it with airplanes or cars or boats either. The insurance companies will take care of it. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
That's very anti-government of you. I'm
Impressed.

So let's not handle it with airplanes or cars or boats either. The insurance companies will take care of it. ;)
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They already do. The only thing that really requires a pilots license is insurance. The FAA has rubber teeth.
 
denverpilot said:
That's very anti-government of you. I'm
Impressed.

So let's not handle it with airplanes or cars or boats either. The insurance companies will take care of it. ;)
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I have no objection, we're down to the bottom half of the last period of the last championship game of this minor league. If we want to move up to the majors we have to win, and we are down by 5 on our 10 yard line 4th down. The Hail Mary plan plan is ripe to come out of the play book, have your best kicker punt to the best receiver and pray to God he gets there in time. (I have seen this play in the Aussie Footie finals work)

Lets do away with all laws and pass out the guns and ammo. Pandora's box is open, and Colt makes all people of equal force and self defense capability. We figure out to get along or die. Lets just get it over with one way or the other. Personally I think we'll end up ok, most people are good peaceful people at heart and will end up cooperating. Technology has given us all the tools to pull it off, we just have to be brave enough to do so.
 
In another thread here you can see an idiot operating as commercial drone pilot fly his drone up through solid IMC over downtown Dallas (near KADS and KDAL) to an altitude about level with 900 foot office towers.

This guy or one like him is going to take down an airliner, probably sooner rather than latter.

q1olFxy.png
 
JimNtexas said:
In another thread here you can see an idiot operating as commercial drone pilot fly his drone up through solid IMC over downtown Dallas (near KADS and KDAL) to an altitude about level with 900 foot office towers.

This guy or one like him is going to take down an airliner, probably sooner rather than latter.

q1olFxy.png
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link please.
 
JimNtexas said:
In another thread here you can see an idiot operating as commercial drone pilot fly his drone up through solid IMC over downtown Dallas (near KADS and KDAL) to an altitude about level with 900 foot office towers.

This guy or one like him is going to take down an airliner, probably sooner rather than latter.

q1olFxy.png
Click to expand...

More than likely, what else can you expect in a society where everybody thinks they are the most important person on the planet, and they have the right to do whatever they want? You can't have that and Rule of Law at the same time, it doesn't work. That model only works under anarchy where someone who sees him doing it can shoot him on the spot with no fear of reprisal except from those who are there, they then judge his actions as just or unjust and what to do from there. We just block our own evolution with Rule of Law. Nature is rule of the jungle, and as long as everything in the jungle is fed and watered, the jungle is a pretty copacetic place considering what all is in it.
 
Little airplanes have run into jetliners and we still allow them. Anyone still holding their breath waiting for them to ban lasers pointers in the name of pilot safety?
JimNtexas said:
In another thread here you can see an idiot operating as commercial drone pilot fly his drone up through solid IMC over downtown Dallas (near KADS and KDAL) to an altitude about level with 900 foot office towers.

This guy or one like him is going to take down an airliner, probably sooner rather than latter.

q1olFxy.png
Click to expand...
 
ClimbnSink said:
Little airplanes have run into jetliners and we still allow them. Anyone still holding their breath waiting for them to ban lasers pointers in the name of pilot safety?
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You can't fix stupid, it is a force of nature, making it illegal is absurd.
 
JimNtexas said:
In another thread here you can see an idiot operating as commercial drone pilot fly his drone up through solid IMC over downtown Dallas (near KADS and KDAL) to an altitude about level with 900 foot office towers.

This guy or one like him is going to take down an airliner, probably sooner rather than latter.
Click to expand...

Airliners flying "level" with 900 foot office towers are an accident waiting to happen even without the existence of drones.

First you start a thread with a story of a drone that is indoors. Then you switch the context to outdoor drones - flown for commercial use (not sure why recreational use is excluded.) Then to commercial drones flying among buildings.

In the future I think it would be helpful if you simply state the kind of regulations, prohibitions, or laws you think should be instituted and the specific problem that is allegedly being solved. One could then actually do some comparable threat analysis and weigh loss of freedoms with alleged benefits amongst the proposed options.

Personally, I believe the primary onus of safety for a user of a public commons is on that user; not on the other users of that public commons. Otherwise it isn't really a public commons anymore - it has a privileged class of users. One should not have a user or class of users who can tell all others "Gang way - gang way - we need to use public commons X and for our safety we need everyone to stand down while we use it. Our use takes precedence!"
 
Henning said:
More than likely, what else can you expect in a society where everybody thinks they are the most important person on the planet, and they have the right to do whatever they want? You can't have that and Rule of Law at the same time, it doesn't work. That model only works under anarchy where someone who sees him doing it can shoot him on the spot with no fear of reprisal except from those who are there, they then judge his actions as just or unjust and what to do from there. We just block our own evolution with Rule of Law. Nature is rule of the jungle, and as long as everything in the jungle is fed and watered, the jungle is a pretty copacetic place considering what all is in it.
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Seriously, you need to be consistent if you want anybody to buy into your psycho babble. In other threads you tell us that if we hope to survive as a species, we need to evolve beyond our animal characteristics. Now you say that the one thing that we have devised that has allowed us to explore the world and even the universe, allowed us to better understand ourselves and even go to the Moon, the basic tool we needed to permit learning and higher understanding, we should get rid of because it is not compatible??! Should we now skip evolution and get back to being animals?

Is this some new revelation, or have you just given up? It seems that if God tells you all these things, God is seriously confused and is not to be trusted.
 
In the future I think it would be helpful if you simply state the kind of regulations, prohibitions, or laws you think should be instituted and the specific problem that is allegedly being solved. One could then actually do some comparable threat analysis and weigh loss of freedoms with alleged benefits amongst the proposed options.
Click to expand...

I suggested in another thread that the minimum requirement for commercial drone operations is that the operator have an FAA certificate of some kind. I'd suggest patterning it after the ground instructor certs. Take a test at a testing center to show you have at least a passing familiarity with the rules and best practices, go to the FSDO, turn in the test results. Get a plastic card from the FAA, hopefully not desecrated with Orville and Wilbur's pictures.

With the card you can operate commercially within the same rules as those developed by R/C modelers over the years.

No plastic card, no commercial operations.

What's the point of that you ask? So maybe idiots like this guy will think twice before he launches into solid IMC inside class C near three or four busy air carrier and GA airports, knowing that the FAA might take his plastic card away for this kind of wantonly reckless behavior.

Want to fly a drone more than five pounds? Get the equivalent of part 135 approval of the whole operation. Manuals, employee qualifications, drug testing, certification of the aircraft, IFR flight plans, no flight over populated areas.

Airliners flying "level" with 900 foot office towers are an accident waiting to happen even without the existence of drones.
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I take it you've never flown an instrument approach before.
 
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At minimum, I think there needs to be some kind of plan for education of personal drone operators about the risks and how to operate them without excessive hazard to others.
 
Dav8or said:
Seriously, you need to be consistent if you want anybody to buy into your psycho babble. In other threads you tell us that if we hope to survive as a species, we need to evolve beyond our animal characteristics. Now you say that the one thing that we have devised that has allowed us to explore the world and even the universe, allowed us to better understand ourselves and even go to the Moon, the basic tool we needed to permit learning and higher understanding, we should get rid of because it is not compatible??! Should we now skip evolution and get back to being animals?

Is this some new revelation, or have you just given up? It seems that if God tells you all these things, God is seriously confused and is not to be trusted.
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We have to change why we do things, not what we we do. There is a guy I barely missed killing tonight due to compassion for others. This known scumbag 400 lb of fat bully stole $20,000 from a woman in a wheelchair with traumatic Parkinson's, that's half a years existence money, this guy poses as her 'friend' and has for a long time, just taking advantage of her. Her real friend gets wind of this and gets the police involved, now this scumbag, one of the angriest, vilest, meanest spirited, greedy waste of a life human beings I have ever encountered (I nearly beat him for the way he was treating one of his workers last year), and now he knows he is going to prison for 15 years when this process is over and he is angry. Had I been up at the fuel dock office when he came in and threatened to kill the real friend, I would have killed him. Instead, someone will kill him in prison. Karma will catch up to him eventually. Since he did what he did in front of witnesses though, and the history exists, I would have gotten away with it in the Law, and I would get away with it with God as well. We are all God's children, but sometimes your children are bad and you have to put them down for the good of society, it's your child, it's you're responsibility at 18, you have till then to raise a decent kid, but sometimes it just isn't in the cards. Excellent parents have evil kids too, so it is both a nature and a nurture deal. They can be born broke, or you can break them, but some people are broke regardless why. The ones that got broke, they can often be mended well enough, the ones that are born broke, well, they need killing. God doesn't mind, he doesn't like what they do to him either.
 
Good on you for defending the defenseless. As for assuming that some people are born bad, and are automatically irretrievably bad, that just sounds too pat to me. I also get real skeptical when people purport to speak for God, or claim to be doing God's will; historically, such people have sometimes done great evil in the world.
 
JimNtexas said:
I suggested in another thread that the minimum requirement for commercial drone operations is that the operator have an FAA certificate of some kind.
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Big question in this is how to define a drone. Is a $20 supermarket helicopter, model plane or quadcopter one? What about a $100 one? Does it depend on weight? Max altitude? Battery life? Where does a toy end?
 
Palmpilot said:
Good on you for defending the defenseless. As for assuming that some people are born bad, and are automatically irretrievably bad, that just sounds too pat to me. I also get real skeptical when people purport to speak for God, or claim to be doing God's will; historically, such people have sometimes done great evil in the world.
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It's true, I know it first hand from a friend I have known since before we went to kindergarten together, the only reason he didn't become a serial killer is excellent parenting, but he's still a sociopathic psycho/arsonist that will torture animals, he just didn't go violent.

People have also done great good, it all depends on the quality of their character, understanding your communication link with God is powerful and empowering.
 
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I think the manufacturers need to deliver a safety video on each model to deliver with it, have it downloaded as well. I think the industry in general should collaborate and sponsor an an enthusiast group and hold events and training seminars.

When this is in place and only then, can you mandate that with the purchase of one you have to get 1 hr of training through this organization (think of the SCUBA model, there are multiple agencies there and the system has worked out so well that government has not bothered to take any regulatory steps at all. There is not one law covering non-commercial SCUBA diving) and get signed off. The insurance industry can help enforce this by putting a drone training clause in the homeowners liability policy, "This coverage not valid for drone related losses unless the insured was in possession of a DOC Safe Operator Course certificate at the time of the loss or injury." Simple as that, we adopt a new technology safely into society with no governmental intervention or associated costs and burdens.

You don't need government at all if people just cooperate and do what they want to do in a way that works best for society, produces the best all around effect, not what is cheapest or makes the most money. That is the evolutionary leap we are 6000 years behind on, and we are coming due to move up or move out, the choice is ours as a species. Earth will rovide a productive spies, it is to rare to waste on an unproductive one. God gets to reseed throughout all the rings of the multiverse at the pulse point for a Big Bang, and that's around every 2000 years our time. Seeding time is coming...
 
You have some good ideas there.
 
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