Drones, another one of those threads

TheGolfPilot

TheGolfPilot

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Golfpilot
This past weekend my non pilot friend pulled out a DJI magic air drone and started flying it around. I have to admit I was totally ignorant to the capabilities of these things. The functionality, controllability, redundancy, and safe guards make them reliable and safe to operate by nearby anybody.

Now when he first pulled this thing out we were up on a hill in a rather unpopulated area and when he turned it on a warning came up saying that area was a warning area for drones, beware of low flying aircraft... well he quickly disregards it and I pull ForeFlight out of my pocket. There was a sheriff helipad less than a mile away and an uncontrolled airport 2 miles away.

He flew anyway. I don’t see the harm in that as he is staying in class G airspace and keeps in line of sight. As well as a click of a button brings it back and lands it. The thing got some great pictures of the landscape and of us.

So we get back to the hotel downtown. This is where I walked away and stayed away. He pulls it out on the balcony of the hotel and flies up and down the Main Street. Being 200-300’ over an area that had cars and people walking the streets seemed wrong. But he flew it for 30 or so minutes using two batteries and the thing returned and he got some cool photos. But boy was I nervous for him. I feel like if that drone falls and hits somebody or something, no insurance company in the world is going to cover him and he would be liable to have the book thrown at him. These aren’t toys, and ignorance isn’t a defense in court.

Do any of you guys have these drones? There aren’t any firm laws for these things yet. From the looking around I have done, it’s pretty much reckless endangerment or invasion of privacy if anybody doesn’t like what you are doing, and that’s the law. Does the ambiguity of the drone laws put a big plane pilot at risk of losing their certificate? Is this something I should stay away from?
 
I have a torn relationship with drones.

They're very cool, the technology they use, the photography they capture, etc., are awesome. But it is different from the old RC plane hobbyists etc., those guys would collect in a park, and get excited flying their P51 models around a circuit, usually over a marsh, or big open area and fields. They were aviation hobbyists and enthusiasts. The drones however attract a different type of crowd, I see way too many people with these drones cruising around beaches, people's backyards, and other heavily populated areas and often doing intrusive things with them. If I'm sitting in my pool I don't really want a drone 50 ft over my head. Incidentally I do have a small drone as well, and am often tempted when I see my neighbor's drone over my yard to fly mine up and greet it in the air

But I'm also generally a big proponent of more individual freedom and less regulation when able.. people will be people and adding regulations to this will just sour the pool and make it a more divisive topic while not really helping anything

My opinion, hardwire the firmware in these things to stay out of controlled airspace, but from there people will be people regardless of what laws you create. We haven't really seen the drone armageddon happen yet, so I'm skeptical that they're as dangerous as some would have us believe. But they are annoying, just like many other things in life can be, but c'est la vie. I generally wouldn't want to restrict someone else's freedom

I also find that the people who make a real hobby out of their drone tend to do so responsibly. The other folks who buy for one Christmas as a fun toy typically get bored of the thing within 6 months and never fly it again.. I haven't seen my neighbor's drone in probably a year.. so the pool I think does seem to be somewhat self correcting or regulating in that regard

TheGolfPilot said:
This is where I walked away and stayed away. He pulls it out on the balcony of the hotel and flies up and down the Main Street. Being 200-300’ over an area that had cars and people walking the streets seemed wrong. But he flew it for 30 or so minutes using two batteries and the thing returned and he got some cool photos.
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It definitely is wrong, and that little voice in your head should be telling you "gee, I shouldn't be doing this" - but there's only so far you can regulate something like this. I think you just have to hope people will generally make responsible decisions, and if they make a habit of not doing so eventually they'll have to face the music on that
 
Yesterday we had a photo guy for a realtor come in and take photos as we are selling the house... he has a DJI and went to fly for the aerial video... and the software would not allow it to fly... the house is under the downwind for El Monte airport, so was a no go zone... it was interesting to learn some about these aircraft and their capability.. Was told they will need to file a flight plan to be able to fly over the house.. will find out more!...
 
I dove in and I bought a DJI Mavic Pro Drone. Spent a couple of hours to get the sUAS Ariman Certificate. And a half day with a friend who has been using drones for years for their surveying company. Really excited to try out some of the software for commercial purposes (free trials). My family has a ranch in the central valley and we are going to try out the agricultural software on a couple hundred acres!

I want to try it out locally. But local laws effectively ban drones... I have a hard time believing local municipalities can make laws governing the FAA's airspace. But I'm still pretty ignorant to all this.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
I want to try it out locally. But local laws effectively ban drones... I have a hard time believing local municipalities can make laws governing the FAA's airspace. But I'm still pretty ignorant to all this.
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FAA gave up on saying they’d be the only regulator at low altitude and away from airports as an olive branch to municipalities. Otherwise they’d start a legal and PR dumpster fire that could never be put out.
 
denverpilot said:
FAA gave up on saying they’d be the only regulator at low altitude and away from airports as an olive branch to municipalities. Otherwise they’d start a legal and PR dumpster fire that could never be put out.
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Interesting. I would think that if I am holding an appropriate faa airman certificate, and my drone has a faa registered N-number, I should be able to operate according to the pertaining FARS. I think it is already a dumpster fire and I am jumping straight in haha.

Hard to follow all local laws, especially when they aren't published on a sectional. Imagine if you had to search local flying laws for every airport we wanted to fly our manned airplanes into, that would be painful.
 
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My nephew came up to our cabin this summer with his new drone. It was a lot of fun, and he is really into it. Couple of things though. He had it going over and by other cabins and I was feeling like it was borderline intrusive so I mentioned it...following boats on the lake for instance...does not seem right. Fairly expensive drone, fairly large.

I asked him to keep it away from other cabins, and people. So he's telling me it's range, and was still cautious though about pushing the limits as he wasn't experienced with it yet. He's a smart guy, and did research about the regulations for drones here.

Then, he got wrapped up in flying it and the drone was on the other side of our lake (roughly about 2000' away I think, maybe less) and suddenly it beeps at him that power is low. I had noticed that from fully charged to fifty percent it drained pretty slowly....but it seems lik after a certain level it starts draining a lot faster. Like it's logrothmic, not linear. We are watching as he sees the battery icon starting to drain and more and more quickly. He first thought to get it back home to us, but as he started to, he doubted it would make it across the lake. That thing would have sunk like an anchor...lost. Then tried to plan a good place to land it.

But the software quickly took over, locked him out and didn't allow him to fly it more. I should mention we had lost eyes on it before...knew the general area it was in, but not exactly where it was. The camera showed it "landing" and we only saw briefly a cabin rooftop, some reeds it landed in. Then because the battery was too low it shut off camera, and showed crude map position but not enough to tell where it actually was.

He looked a little queasy at this point. We hopped in his car and drove around the lake trying to figure out which cabin it might have been. We ended up finding it, right by the lakeside, in some reeds. I was terribly embarrassed as the owner was home. He had gon out to his deck with a glass of wine to relax and suddenly sees this drone going down the hillside on his property. He was very nice, and not put out, but I felt terrible.

The only consolation I could think of, I said we were not filming his cabin (which was true) but to compensate if he wanted we could take it the next day and give him some nice photos from the air of his cabin if he thought that would be nice to have, which he said yeah so we did...I sent them to him, bu never got a reply.

It's a closed local community up there, were are city folk with a cabin there. I suspect my reputation has gotten a ding with the locals.

Overall, I think drones can quickly become intrusive, even if no bad intent. I don't know how I would feel seeing a drone hanging around our cabin. Also they can get quite high up...my nephew knows a lot of the regs, but he had it up quite high a few times to show what it could do. As I said, my nephew is a smart guy, and did check the regs, but any yahoo with the bucks can buy a drone. I know a lot of folk I wouldn't trust with a balsa airplane, let alone to act responsibly with a drone. And we didn't act all that responsibly ourselves. But we had no bad intent.
 
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TheGolfPilot said:
Interesting. I would think that if I am holding an appropriate faa airman certificate, and my drone has a faa registered N-number, I should be able to operate according to the pertaining FARS. I think it is already a dumpster fire and I am jumping straight in haha.

Hard to follow all local laws, especially when they aren't published on a sectional. Imagine if you had to search local flying laws for every airport we wanted to fly our manned airplanes into, that would be painful.
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I wouldn't quite equate drones taking photos through the window of your house with flying a manned airplane into an airport. Or for that matter, equate the FAA's interest or ability to, say, enforce FAR 107.23 (careless and reckless) or .39 (operation over people) with those of local authorities.

There have always been areas where state law interests and federal regulation collide and federal preemption of aviation and airspace has a few grey areas along the edges. Property ownership rights (does the FAA have more of a say over whether you can build a third story on you home than local zoning, unless it happens to impinge on the takeoff and landing paths of a nearby airport?), privacy regulation (which is one of the bigger issues), are not particularly strong cards in the FAA deck. Plus, there is the practicality of enforcement if the FAA did choose to regulate those things.

Low altitude flight by unmanned aircraft operated by untrained pilots presents some fairly novel issues. I can see why the FAA might choose to keep out of some of them.

Btw, this is a pretty good article on the drone preemption issue. It discusses the Singer case out of a Massachusetts federal court. The Sky May Be The Limit.
 
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