Dog bite diverts plane

I've never had in-flight dog bites (all the dogs stay in cages), but once the day of a transport my dog bolted out of my truck to go find a spot of grass as I was dropping her of fat the kennel. When I caught up to her I tackled her, and she bit my hand pretty well. Still flew to Alabama that evening with a torn up hand. Oh, and the runway was made of molten lava when I got there. ;)

There's a reason why you're suppsoed to keep the dog in its carrier for the duration of the flight.
 
Pet owner should be charged with something expensive. There is no reason whatsoever anyone's pet dog should bite anybody.
 
steingar said:
Pet owner should be charged with something expensive. There is no reason whatsoever anyone's pet dog should bite anybody.
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Bull****.

If you are eight years old and throwing unripe apples at it, or if you are being "attacked" by your father-in-law and screaming for help, or any other number of protective instances.
 
steingar said:
Pet owner should be charged with something expensive. There is no reason whatsoever anyone's pet dog should bite anybody.
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Well, that's just wrong. Typically I find that if a dog bites a human, it's the human's fault. There are poorly behaved dogs that are the result of poor training from their humans. However, in the vast majority of cases where I've seen dogs bite humans, the human provoked it somehow.

However when you are bringing a dog onto a passenger aircraft, the understanding is that the dog won't disturb the other passengers on the plane in any way. Hence, they should be kept in their cages for the full duration of the flight.
 
EdFred said:
Bull****.

If you are eight years old and throwing unripe apples at it, or if you are being "attacked" by your father-in-law and screaming for help, or any other number of protective instances.
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O.K., if the dog is protecting it's human from another human, which is likely about 0.0000000001% of all dog bite incidents.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, that's just wrong. Typically I find that if a dog bites a human, it's the human's fault. There are poorly behaved dogs that are the result of poor training from their humans. However, in the vast majority of cases where I've seen dogs bite humans, the human provoked it somehow.
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I disagree violently. Except in the case that Ed mentioned, there is no reason whatsoever for a dog to bite a person, save perhaps fear of imminent death. If a dog doesn't like something, too damn bad. It's a dog. Lump it.

The reason dogs bite people is poor training, period. The human is the alpha dog. If the human doesn't permit the dog to bite people, the dog won't bite people. If a dog cannot be trained not to bite people it is loco, and should be euthanized as a public danger.

Most dogs are poorly trained because they are anthropomorphized by their owners, who refuse to set the necessary boundaries for the animal to exist in social human settings. As a result, the animal does whatever it wants, including showing aggression towards humans. Thus the line, "oh, the human provoked it" to cover up the lack of proper training by the animal's owner.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
There's a reason why you're suppsoed to keep the dog in its carrier for the duration of the flight.
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I agree, although the report does say the dog 'broke out' of its carrier. That would have to be a pretty weak carrier. I would guess that the owner had it partially opened and was petting the scared little thing. Sometimes it may be better to just leave the animal where it is comfortable, that is at home or at the boarding facility.
 
steingar said:
O.K., if the dog is protecting it's human from another human, which is likely about 0.0000000001% of all dog bite incidents.
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That would depend on whether you're considering the dog's perception or that of the human getting bit. A lot of dog biting is the result of the dog "protecting" it's "pack's" territory from an intruder. For a pet the "pack" is it's owner and associated family.
 
steingar said:
O.K., if the dog is protecting it's human from another human, which is likely about 0.0000000001% of all dog bite incidents.
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That would depend on whether you're considering the dog's perception or that of the human getting bit. A lot of dog biting is the result of the dog "protecting" it's "pack's" territory from an intruder. For a pet the "pack" is it's owner and associated family. IOW the dog "thinks" it's protecting a human from another human even though the other human wasn't really a threat to the dog's owner from the perspective of either human.
 
steingar said:
I disagree violently. Except in the case that Ed mentioned, there is no reason whatsoever for a dog to bite a person, save perhaps fear of imminent death. If a dog doesn't like something, too damn bad. It's a dog. Lump it.
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Well, Michael, you've proven just how little you understand about animals.
 
gismo said:
That would depend on whether you're considering the dog's perception or that of the human getting bit. A lot of dog biting is the result of the dog "protecting" it's "pack's" territory from an intruder. For a pet the "pack" is it's owner and associated family.
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Correct. Bites are typically provoked as protection of self and/or pack. Other than pack, if a dog is scared in a corner and you approach it poorly it's going to attack you. Similarly, getting dogs out of cages can be challenging when they don't know what is going on. Someone who approaches the dog poorly is, in many cases, going to get bit. That isn't a sign of a bad dog, certainly not the sign of one that needs to get put down. It's a matter of knowing how to deal with dogs.

Poor training I think has to do with about 90% of animal issues, but human training is just as important as training of the animal.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, Michael, you've proven just how little you understand about animals.
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I am sorry Ted, but I understand a great deal. We will have to agree to disagree. My dogs will never bite anyone for any reason, They never have, and if they ever do they run the risk of becoming ex-dogs because they will have lost their dog minds.

What you don't understand is the exposure such animals give their families. Twenty percent of all dog bites result in emergency medical attention. I don't know how many of those require hospitalization, but I'll bet the number isn't zero. Hospitalization is expensive. Thus people with poorly trained and aggressive dogs expose themselves to incredible financial risk. If I wasn't confident my dogs wouldn't bite anyone, I wouldn't own them.

There are no bad dogs. Only bad humans.
 
steingar said:
I am sorry Ted, but I understand a great deal. We will have to agree to disagree. My dogs will never bite anyone for any reason, They never have, and if they ever do they run the risk of becoming ex-dogs because they will have lost their dog minds.

What you don't understand is the exposure such animals give their families. Twenty percent of all dog bites result in emergency medical attention. I don't know how many of those require hospitalization, but I'll bet the number isn't zero. Hospitalization is expensive. Thus people with poorly trained and aggressive dogs expose themselves to incredible financial risk. If I wasn't confident my dogs wouldn't bite anyone, I wouldn't own them.

There are no bad dogs. Only bad humans.
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I GUARANTEE I could get your dogs to bite me. Without question.
 
EdFred said:
I GUARANTEE I could get your dogs to bite me. Without question.
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Oh of course, if you physically and very painfully abuse them. I doubt very, very strongly that most dog bites result from that level of physical abuse, even in cases where "the dog was provoked".
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Well, that's just wrong. Typically I find that if a dog bites a human, it's the human's fault. There are poorly behaved dogs that are the result of poor training from their humans. However, in the vast majority of cases where I've seen dogs bite humans, the human provoked it somehow.
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There are also more than a few poorly behaved dogs due to poor breeding practices.
 
I've been bitten (once, on the face) and admit it was partially my fault. I walked through an area where a sheepdog was on a grooming table. I didn't really pay any attention to the dog but expect I intruded into his space and wasn't communicating and that was enough to make me a threat. His owners and the grooming person were also partially to blame (owners for raising a hyper dog and the groomer for not having the dog under control).

The owners were out of town at the time so no rabies information was known, so I got the shots as prophylaxis. We agreed to hold off on lawsuits until I was 18 and had been shaving for a few years to see if the scars caused any problems. They didn't so I didn't bother suing.
 
steingar said:
I am sorry Ted, but I understand a great deal. We will have to agree to disagree. My dogs will never bite anyone for any reason, They never have, and if they ever do they run the risk of becoming ex-dogs because they will have lost their dog minds.
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You can think that all you want, but it's still not accurate and shows a misunderstanding of how canines work. You give your dogs far too much credit if you think they have the cognitive faculties to know that biting someone results in them being ex-dogs. Will your dogs ever bite someone? Probably not. But my dogs probably won't bite anyone either (even though my Akita has bitten me when provoked properly). In either case, put in the proper situation both will bite, and I will guarantee you I could provoke your dogs to bite me. You need to understand that as the responsible caretaker of your dogs and take the appropriate measures to prevent that from happening. It sounds like you take measures to prevent it from happening, but don't have the understanding you think you do.

What you don't understand is the exposure such animals give their families. Twenty percent of all dog bites result in emergency medical attention. I don't know how many of those require hospitalization, but I'll bet the number isn't zero. Hospitalization is expensive. Thus people with poorly trained and aggressive dogs expose themselves to incredible financial risk. If I wasn't confident my dogs wouldn't bite anyone, I wouldn't own them.
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Your confidence is misplaced. Furthermore, I would still argue that the majority of dog bites are caused by humans acting stupidly around dogs. This is compounded if you have a poorly trained dog, but even with a well-trained dog, you can act stupidly in a way to provoke its defense instincts. Regardless of how well they're trained, that is a possibility.

There are no bad dogs. Only bad humans.
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On that, we agree. On everything else, we can agree to disagree.
 
steingar said:
Pet owner should be charged with something expensive. There is no reason whatsoever anyone's pet dog should bite anybody.
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Expensive? For a little nip? This is an arbitrary and ridiculous statement. The owner did not let it out. A passenger "tried to calm it" and then it got out. What did the owner do wrong? It was in an approved carrier.

I'm not a fan of little nippy dogs, but your opinion seems a little skewed.
 
timrj said:
Expensive? For a little nip? This is an arbitrary and ridiculous statement. The owner did not let it out. A passenger "tried to calm it" and then it got out. What did the owner do wrong? It was in an approved carrier.
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To be fair, a lot of "approved" carriers really aren't very good. Especially the fabric ones. I have had a lot of dogs break out of approved fabric containers.

I'm not a fan of little nippy dogs, but your opinion seems a little skewed.
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Yep. And the little dogs are usually the most likely ones to bite. Their teeth are sharper and hurt more, too (BTDT).
 
Ted DuPuis said:
And the little dogs are usually the most likely ones to bite. Their teeth are sharper and hurt more, too (BTDT).
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The average cost of a hospital visit from a dog attack is over 18 AMU, and the amount spent nationally has ben rising steadily since the 80s. While lots of small dogs are improperly raised and downright nasty (one of the only two dog bites I've ever received was from a toy poodle) I myself doubt the majority require hospitalization. Some certainly, but not so many. Larger dogs have stronger bite strength (longer and thicker masseter muscles with more robust attachment points) and bigger teeth, and can do considerably greater damage.

I suspect a contributing factor in this trend of increasing attack costs is the popularity of dogs bred to inflict damage, such as pit bulls and rotweilers, and their inappropriate rearing and socialization. Again, more's the pity. Both are quite docile by nature.

Like I said, there are no bad dogs, just bad humans.
 
steingar said:
The average cost of a hospital visit from a dog attack is over 18 AMU, and the amount spent nationally has ben rising steadily since the 80s. While lots of small dogs are improperly raised and downright nasty (one of the only two dog bites I've ever received was from a toy poodle) I myself doubt the majority require hospitalization. Some certainly, but not so many. Larger dogs have stronger bite strength (longer and thicker masseter muscles with more robust attachment points) and bigger teeth, and can do considerably greater damage.
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It has been my experience that small dogs are more likely to bite kids than large dogs. Kids like to play / pull on the dogs and the small dogs feel threatened and bite. The big dogs just ignore the kid as if the kid was just a mosquito buzzing around.

steingar said:
I suspect a contributing factor in this trend of increasing attack costs is the popularity of dogs bred to inflict damage, such as pit bulls and rotweilers, and their inappropriate rearing and socialization. Again, more's the pity. Both are quite docile by nature.
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I have two dogs. One is a half German Shepherd and half St. Bernard... The other is a female pit bull. OK, technically the pit is my daughter's... The pit is probably the friendliest and smartest dog that we've ever had. The only thing that she is aggressive towards is tennis balls -- she loves to play fetch with them (enough so that I bought a youth lacrosse stick so I can throw the ball further with less effort on my part).

All the aggressive pits that I've seen have been situations where the owners just chained the dogs outside on a short chain. In my opinion, that just makes them more aggressive.

steingar said:
Like I said, there are no bad dogs, just bad humans.
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But unfortunately, if the dog misbehaves, it is the dog that gets punished, not the human.
 
CollinLeon said:
All the aggressive pits that I've seen have been situations where the owners just chained the dogs outside on a short chain. In my opinion, that just makes them more aggressive.
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Having rescued no shortage of chained pits, it's surprising how calm they typically are. Pits are some of the sweetest dogs I've come across as a rule. I've even rescued bait dogs used in dog fighting rings. One in particular looked like she'd been through hell, but she would just sit obediently, tail wagging, mouth open if you dangled a treat in front of her.

The ones that are aggressive are somehow provoked to be in the vast majority of cases.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Having rescued no shortage of chained pits, it's surprising how calm they typically are. Pits are some of the sweetest dogs I've come across as a rule. I've even rescued bait dogs used in dog fighting rings. One in particular looked like she'd been through hell, but she would just sit obediently, tail wagging, mouth open if you dangled a treat in front of her.

The ones that are aggressive are somehow provoked to be in the vast majority of cases.
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Agreed... The bad problems that you hear about with pits are the faults of the owners, not the dog itself... In fact, I've never been bit by a pit or Chow that I have owned, but I have been bit by a spaniel, a Pekingese, and a Chihuahua...

Our pit does not have her tail bobbed nor her ears cut, so if you look at her, she's just your typical floppy eared friendly dog...

Here she was as a puppy:

picture.php
 
A little over a year ago, I took in a large dog, about 100 lbs, who had been abandoned in our community. He was scared and confused when I took him in. He bit me five times the first week, drew blood on two of the bites. He bit my employee several times, and a customer once. My employee was the one who talked me into letting him be our shop dog, so I wasn't worried about her suing me. The customer was a dog owner, and since he didn't draw blood, wasn't concerned.

I had to keep him penned up in the back part of my store until about six months ago. I took him to the vet for the rest of his shots and a check up. Two thousand dollars later, he had three tumors removed from his tail, and two others from his side, then some teeth pulled and the rest cleaned, he has turned into a big lovable animal. He is gentle around everyone now, even little kids climb on him.

The poor guy was just in constant pain, all the time. I just didn't know it.
He fit all the criteria to be put down, when all he really needed was a little TLC and a few bucks put into him.

He now has people in the neighborhood around my store coming in to visit him and the shop cat. I guess they need a fur fix now and then. "Murf" is now actually an asset to my business. I run his picture in all my ads every week.

The reason I am relating this is that some folks are just a little to quick to pull the trigger on an animals life. Perhaps they ought to think about it a little more.

John
 
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John Baker said:
The reason I am relating this is that some folks are just a little to quick to pull the trigger on an animals life. Perhaps they aught to think about it a little more.
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Having grown up on a ranch, I don't get attached to animals... I would not have spent $2K on an animal like that for medical bills. I would have taken him out back and put him down. Glad it turned out good for you though.
 
gismo said:
That would depend on whether you're considering the dog's perception or that of the human getting bit. A lot of dog biting is the result of the dog "protecting" it's "pack's" territory from an intruder. For a pet the "pack" is it's owner and associated family. IOW the dog "thinks" it's protecting a human from another human even though the other human wasn't really a threat to the dog's owner from the perspective of either human.
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The dog only protects what it thinks it owns.

If its protecting you, it thinks its dominant over you, and owns you. Think very carefully about what that really means, and how the dog views its relationship with you.

My dogs are submissive in my presence because I refuse to allow them to be dominant towards anyone - myself, other people, children, other dogs, cats... I quickly establish myself as the pack leader whenever they start to assert dominance. When at a dog park and another dog attempts to be aggressively dominant towards my animals, I calmly but firmly intervene.

Subtle signs a dog is exhibiting dominance over you:
Sitting on you.. your lap.. your foot.. your arm.
Licking your face.
Standing over you
Getting between you and another person or animal.
Leaning on you
Jumping up on you
Walking in front of you while on leash, or pulling you by the leash.

All things that people may encourage or even think is cute...

If your animal will not sit or lay down immediately on voice command or does the above things, it most likely doesn't regard you as as its leader, and your ability to control your animal is in question
 
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Doggtyred said:
The dog only protects what it thinks it owns.

If its protecting you, it thinks its dominant over you, and owns you. Think very carefully about what that really means, and how the dog views its relationship with you.

My dogs are submissive in my presence because I refuse to allow them to be dominant towards anyone - myself, other people, children, other dogs, cats... I quickly establish myself as the pack leader whenever they start to assert dominance. When at a dog park and another dog attempts to be aggressively dominant towards my animals, I calmly but firmly intervene.
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That can be true to a certain extent, and I have certainly seen dogs that have overly protective behaviors who don't understand that they aren't the pack leader.

My rottweiler, however, is sweeting and loving towards almost everyone. If he's aggressive towards someone, there's a good reason for it. He knows I'm the alpha and will stop if I tell him to, but if an actual situation came up where defense was required then the instinct includes working together, not just letting the pack leader do all the fighting.
 
Doggtyred said:
Getting between you and another person or animal.
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Not so sure about that one... I've seen dogs with a herding instinct that will do that... Or in some cases, maybe it is a protective instinct... Maybe it is just a relative alpha towards the other dog even though your dog recognizes you as the alpha...
 
CollinLeon said:
Having grown up on a ranch, I don't get attached to animals... I would not have spent $2K on an animal like that for medical bills. I would have taken him out back and put him down. Glad it turned out good for you though.
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Empathy for animals seems to be a luxury afforded mostly to city folks.

John
 
John Baker said:
Empathy for animals seems to be a luxury afforded mostly to city folks.

John
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I think that is true. I've spoken to many who grew up on farms, and animals come and go. Its just life. When animals are a source of your livelihood, it does not make economic sense to put lots of money into pets.
 
Anthony said:
I think that is true. I've spoken to many who grew up on farms, and animals come and go. Its just life. When animals are a source of your livelihood, it does not make economic sense to put lots of money into pets.
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My first two cows were named Steak and Roast.
 
Anthony said:
I think that is true. I've spoken to many who grew up on farms, and animals come and go. Its just life. When animals are a source of your livelihood, it does not make economic sense to put lots of money into pets.
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I'm not city folk, and me/my family spend silly money on our pets.
 
Doggtyred said:
The dog only protects what it thinks it owns.

If its protecting you, it thinks its dominant over you, and owns you. Think very carefully about what that really means, and how the dog views its relationship with you.

My dogs are submissive in my presence because I refuse to allow them to be dominant towards anyone - myself, other people, children, other dogs, cats... I quickly establish myself as the pack leader whenever they start to assert dominance. When at a dog park and another dog attempts to be aggressively dominant towards my animals, I calmly but firmly intervene.

Subtle signs a dog is exhibiting dominance over you:
Sitting on you.. your lap.. your foot.. your arm.
Licking your face.
Standing over you
Getting between you and another person or animal.
Leaning on you
Jumping up on you
Walking in front of you while on leash, or pulling you by the leash.

All things that people may encourage or even think is cute...

If your animal will not sit or lay down immediately on voice command or does the above things, it most likely doesn't regard you as as its leader, and your ability to control your animal is in question
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A lot of this so called dog behavior is based on studies of wolves in captivity. (The whole alpha dog thing)

However, wolves in captivity behave differently than those in a natural setting.

It is akin to thinking about most people's behaviors based on what one sees happen in prisons.
 
timrj said:
A lot of this so called dog behavior is based on studies of wolves in captivity. (The whole alpha dog thing)

However, wolves in captivity behave differently than those in a natural setting.

It is akin to thinking about most people's behaviors based on what one sees happen in prisons.
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Dogs are not wolves, and have significant genetic differences that result in behavioral changes leading to domesticity. However, what Doggtyred said is utterly true. Dogs that attack people are improperly raised and conditioned. There is usually no reason whatsoever for them to attack other than the mistaken and ignorant actions of their owners.

Good example. The %^%$&&@!! toy poodle that bit me was then scooped up and petted by its owner. She reinforced this horrid behavior. If my dog did that he'd have his head pinned to the ground for his efforts, and he would remain that way until he submitted.

People hate yappy little dogs. I own one. He barks, it's his nature. He barks outside, it's time to come in, and he knows it. I don't like yappy little dogs either, and I won't let mine be one. Simple measures of control can make a dog's behavior far more acceptable.

The city/county comparison is just plain stupid. People in the city by and large don't use dogs as commercial entities, rather as pets and companions. Honestly, what sort of work is a dog supposed to do in an urban or suburban setting? Lots of people on farms also have dogs that are pets, and I've seen them drop some serious coin to keep them healthy.

And their are plenty of stupid people on farms who do lots of dumb stuff to dogs, just like there are in the city. Fewer in the country, because there are far fewer people in the country than the city.
 
steingar said:
Lots of people on farms also have dogs that are pets, and I've seen them drop some serious coin to keep them healthy.
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If you think people drop serious coin on their dogs you should see what they drop on their horses... in the "country" no less.
 
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