Does the Citation ISP (CE501) require a Single Pilot Exemption/Waiver?

Exactly…this is about training and testing for the 501/551 in something other than a 501/551.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Exactly…this is about training and testing for the 501/551 in something other than a 501/551.
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The document separates it like this:
b. Cessna 500 Series Airplanes

(1) Cessna 501 or 551.

(2) Cessna 500, 550, S550, 552, or 560.
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They are separate. Anything listed under (1) talks about what happens when you’re tested in a 501/551. Anything listed under (2) is for the other ones. It’s not talking exclusively about a single pilot exemption. It’s talking about how you deal with pilots wanting to take check rides as single pilots or as a crew.
 
Instead of single pilot authorization is the way I read it.
 
dtuuri said:
Instead of single pilot authorization is the way I read it.
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All I know is that the single pilot authorization or exemption is only applicable to airplanes that require two pilots. The 501/551 don’t require two pilots, so no exemption or waiver is required.

Now, if you take the check ride with or without an SIC depending on which model you use, you might have some restrictions, but it has nothing to do with single pilot exemptions.

A single pilot exemption does not exist for the 501/551.
 
Toby Rice said:
The document separates it like this:


They are separate. Anything listed under (1) talks about what happens when you’re tested in a 501/551. Anything listed under (2) is for the other ones. It’s not talking exclusively about a single pilot exemption. It’s talking about how you deal with pilots wanting to take check rides as single pilots or as a crew.
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I know it’s not about an exemption.
What does your logbook endorsement say?
 
Whelp, I just remember when these planes were first made single-pilot and the way the FAA made sure the PIC could handle everything by himself. So, that's the setting in which I interpret the language. Proceed at your own risk. :)
 
@Toby Rice , @MauleSkinner , and others, I think the primary reason that some people have SIC Required on their CE-500 type rating and some don't, even when they all tested in a two-pilot version of the plane with a SIC (let's say a CE-550), is simply due to confusing rules changing over time and inconsistent application of whatever rule was in effect at the time.

From 8900.2C, para 77b(2)(b), "SIC Required" is not required since this is a two-pilot airplane. This makes sense to me. A 747 type rating doesn't say "SIC Required", since that's included in the TCDS for the airplane anyway. Putting it on there would be redundant. https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/FAA_Order_8900.2C.pdf

The Flight Standardizations Board Report-CE-500, para 7.1.1, states that the limitation DOES need to be put on there. https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2022-08/FSBR_CE-500_Rev_2_Draft.pdf . This is obviously the exact opposite of what the 8900.2C says.

Notice, thought, that the 8900.2C is dated 2018, while the FSBR-CE-500, at least the only version I could find (Revision 2), has no date and is in "DRAFT" status. At least to me, that means it's not implemented and not cite-able as a reference. I could not locate a Revision 1 to compare what it currently says.

Also note that the whole reason this becomes confusing is because the CE-500/550/560/etc, except the 501 and 551, are all 2-crew airplanes. Just like a Learjet or 747. That's how they were originally certified. So in order to operate single-pilot in these, the pilot must obtain a waiver/exemption/etc (what is required and what it's called has changed over time). But the default is still that they are a 2-crew airplane. This is different from the CE-525 (the CJ series) in that the TCDS for those lists the airplane as a 1- OR 2-crew airplane, so "waiver/exemption" is not required, just the proper checkride. It's more than a bit of a semantic argument, but there it is.
 
Bottom line is that the OP should be asking the training center, not SGOTI. They’re the ones who actually understand the program under which he was trained and tested.
 
@RussR well put, thanks!

Regardless, I have a CE-500 type rating with no restrictions (outside of the 25 hour SOE). I can fly a 501/551 single pilot without anything extra. I can fly a 500/550/etc. with an SIC because they require two pilots. If I want to fly a 500/550/etc. as a single pilot, I’ll have to have the 500 hours turbine time, take the training, and take a single pilot checkride.
 
I did my 501 type ride in a 501SP 20 years ago. On final approach the examiner asked me if I wanted him to get the flaps, I was not thinking and said sure. He did, and then when we got on the ground he informed me he was going to have to give me a SIC requirement. Told me I would have to come back again next week. I did, 1/2 hour in the pattern and OF COURSE for another 1000.00 charge, I got the SIC removed. If he had reached for something I would have broke his arm. I had been flying Lear 23 and 24's for over 10 years, the 501 is like a 210.
 
RussR said:
@Toby Rice , @MauleSkinner , and others, I think the primary reason that some people have SIC Required on their CE-500 type rating and some don't, even when they all tested in a two-pilot version of the plane with a SIC (let's say a CE-550), is simply due to confusing rules changing over time and inconsistent application of whatever rule was in effect at the time.

From 8900.2C, para 77b(2)(b), "SIC Required" is not required since this is a two-pilot airplane. This makes sense to me. A 747 type rating doesn't say "SIC Required", since that's included in the TCDS for the airplane anyway. Putting it on there would be redundant. https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/FAA_Order_8900.2C.pdf

The Flight Standardizations Board Report-CE-500, para 7.1.1, states that the limitation DOES need to be put on there. https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2022-08/FSBR_CE-500_Rev_2_Draft.pdf . This is obviously the exact opposite of what the 8900.2C says.

Notice, thought, that the 8900.2C is dated 2018, while the FSBR-CE-500, at least the only version I could find (Revision 2), has no date and is in "DRAFT" status. At least to me, that means it's not implemented and not cite-able as a reference. I could not locate a Revision 1 to compare what it currently says.

Also note that the whole reason this becomes confusing is because the CE-500/550/560/etc, except the 501 and 551, are all 2-crew airplanes. Just like a Learjet or 747. That's how they were originally certified. So in order to operate single-pilot in these, the pilot must obtain a waiver/exemption/etc (what is required and what it's called has changed over time). But the default is still that they are a 2-crew airplane. This is different from the CE-525 (the CJ series) in that the TCDS for those lists the airplane as a 1- OR 2-crew airplane, so "waiver/exemption" is not required, just the proper checkride. It's more than a bit of a semantic argument, but there it is.
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Does anyone know if Canada recognizes the Single Pilot Waiver?
 
I’m not certain Canada does, but I recall this being repeatedly discussed over the years.

Regarding OP’s explanation, I like it. But, it needs to meet the FAA legal interpretation. They issued the following two letters in the past. The first letter addresses the practical test and endorsement. Notice last sentence on page 1. The second letter is directed at SimuFlite’s authorization to conduct SP exemption training and may or may not help with the subject.


 
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