Does anyone use Victor Airways anymore?

dfw11411

dfw11411

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
136
Display Name
Display name:
dfw11411
Yesterday I flew northward 300 nm through central Texas and then returned. I had flight following so ATC knew my destinations. I used the airways to avoid MOAs and TFRs. At least twice on the way north and twice on the way south, different controllers asked me where I was heading and what my next waypoints would be. It was obvious they were trying to manage separation and help me avoid special use airspace (thank you, ATC!), but I thought it strange that they didn't realize I was flying the airways. Of the 20-30 other aircraft I passed on my trip, absolutely none were on the airways. I just wonder if GPS is making the airways fall out of favor? Following the airways added 12 nm to my overall trip - but assured me of SUA avoidance.

Do you use the airways?
 
ATC won’t “realize” what your route of flight is...that has to be communicated one way or another.

But with regard to your actual question, in the middle part of the country they’re not commonly used. On the coasts, airways are more the norm for IFR.

Can’t speak to what anyone besides me does VFR, but I typically fly direct, with or without GPS, with deviations around things I don’t want to fly through.
 
I have to admit I do not. The GPS gets me there and Foreflight helps me navigate around what I need to avoid. You make a very good point though.
 
I have flown airways VFR on new-to-me routes, if only to use the MEAs to simplify planning. The time lost is minimal, but they may also take you away from civilization. Sometimes it's better to follow roads.
 
IFR, you’ll get them assigned to you whether you like it or not. And yes you always get a reroute at some point.
 
I don't typically plan for them, but occasionally ATC gives them to me. Even then ATC usually gives me "direct destination" shortly after I get started, or once I'm clear of the Atlanta Class B space when heading south (I'm on the north side).

I've gotten a spaghetti string of victor airways in my few trips to the northeast. When it's IMC I just have to suffer through it. When it's nice I just cancel and go more direct.

There are MOAs and some R space around, but generally ATC is fine with me flying through. Maybe it's that most of my flying is on weekends and the MOAs are more busy during weekdays. Or maybe those around me just aren't that busy.
 
dfw11411 said:
I just wonder if GPS is making the airways fall out of favor?
Click to expand...

"Making them fall out of favor?" For VFR use, I'd say that ship sailed a long time ago. I don't know anybody who flies airways VFR around here.

For IFR use, here in the center of the country they are still used but rarely. Mostly only to get routed around MOAs and R-areas. I've been assigned some in the last few months.
 
It usually depends on which plane I’m flying and where I’m headed to. I rent so if a plane has GPS I’ll definitely take advantage of that to get where I’m going for more direct routing. If not and I have a destination in which airways are helpful, I definitely fly along them.

I fly in and around KLAX where V186 is essentially the north west border of Bravo but it can get you to San Diego. There are also several airways to pick up that help avoid special airspace when flying LA to Vegas. So for me, they still serve a purpose.
 
I plan direct destination, then look on the IFR low charts onForeFlight to see if my route crosses any B or R spaces. If so, I pick the closest intersection, navaid, or airport that gets me around the obstacle and add that as a waypoint.
 
Who is Victor?

The one and only time I ever did it was my very first dual cross country. I planned it all on my own without input from the instructor, and when we sat down to review it before leaving he was just like ok that's not normal but lets do it. Living in the rural middle of the country, I've never had ATC put me on an airway, even IFR. Maybe not GPS direct at all times, but maybe vectors or an intermediate fix (like KELSI).
 
nrm2430 said:
It usually depends on which plane I’m flying and where I’m headed to. I rent so if a plane has GPS I’ll definitely take advantage of that to get where I’m going for more direct routing. If not and I have a destination in which airways are helpful, I definitely fly along them.

I fly in and around KLAX where V186 is essentially the north west border of Bravo but it can get you to San Diego. There are also several airways to pick up that help avoid special airspace when flying LA to Vegas. So for me, they still serve a purpose.
Click to expand...

What does the rental plane having a GPS have to do with flying direct? I can plot a direct-to heading using a map just as well as hitting the direct-to button . . .
 
SoonerAviator said:
What does the rental plane having a GPS have to do with flying direct? I can plot a direct-to heading using a map just as well as hitting the direct-to button . . .
Click to expand...
The rental having GPS or being able to plot a direct route on a map isn’t the only factor taken into account for my flying. I fly in So Cal where some destinations can be direct and some can’t. A direct to heading isnt always possible when dealing with a large Bravo that doesn’t always give clearance and/or restricted airspace.
 
nrm2430 said:
The rental having GPS or being able to plot a direct route on a map isn’t the only factor taken into account for my flying. I fly in So Cal where some destinations can be direct and some can’t. A direct to heading isnt always possible when dealing with a large Bravo that doesn’t always give clearance and/or restricted airspace.
Click to expand...
And there are also large rocks than can get in the way.
 
nrm2430 said:
The rental having GPS or being able to plot a direct route on a map isn’t the only factor taken into account for my flying. I fly in So Cal where some destinations can be direct and some can’t. A direct to heading isnt always possible when dealing with a large Bravo that doesn’t always give clearance and/or restricted airspace.
Click to expand...
All destinations can be flown direct if you're brave enough. ;)
 
I tend to use Victor airways a fair amount. But then navigation equipment in my Cardinal is two NAV/COM radios and an ADF ;-)
 
Just about every IFR clearance I get has a airway attached to it.... and flying around the Los Angeles basin airspace, sometimes that is the only way to go..
 
dfw11411 said:
Yesterday I flew northward 300 nm through central Texas and then returned. I had flight following so ATC knew my destinations. I used the airways to avoid MOAs and TFRs. At least twice on the way north and twice on the way south, different controllers asked me where I was heading and what my next waypoints would be. It was obvious they were trying to manage separation and help me avoid special use airspace (thank you, ATC!), but I thought it strange that they didn't realize I was flying the airways. Of the 20-30 other aircraft I passed on my trip, absolutely none were on the airways. I just wonder if GPS is making the airways fall out of favor? Following the airways added 12 nm to my overall trip - but assured me of SUA avoidance.

Do you use the airways?
Click to expand...

I got Clearances on V23 and V287 just last year. They get used a lot in Southern California although more T Routes are being commissioned down there. As far as answering that Controllers what's yer next waypoint question, you could have just said "I'm following Victor ###," they know where they are. Yeah, seeing as how you were already on it, they coulda guessed, but then that doesn't tell them you are navigating on it and intend to stay on it.
 
They've decommissioned most of the Victor airways in southern Ontario and Quebec (its VOR/NDB-to-VOR/NDB or vectors if you're not RNAV-equipped), except for the ones that enter from the US. They're still common in the rest of Canada, though.
 
David Megginson said:
They've decommissioned most of the Victor airways in southern Ontario and Quebec (its VOR/NDB-to-VOR/NDB or vectors if you're not RNAV-equipped), except for the ones that enter from the US. They're still common in the rest of Canada, though.
Click to expand...

Are these airways being decommissioned even when the navaids are still operational?

If so, I wonder if it's a cost-savings measure, to avoid Transport Canada flying the airway periodically to verify that the navaid can be received at the minimum altitudes.
 
I fly in south Florida. Victor airways are commonly present in my IFR clearances.
 
NoHeat said:
Are these airways being decommissioned even when the navaids are still operational?

If so, I wonder if it's a cost-savings measure, to avoid Transport Canada flying the airway periodically to verify that the navaid can be received at the minimum altitudes.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure—perhaps they don't have to test the T-routes that replaced them, because they don't involve surface navaids. Some VORs were decommissioned, but not all.
 
I don't remember ever being sent to one, they always give me routing via waypoints, airports, or VORs direct.
 
If you fly IFR in California, good luck getting away with not being assigned an airway, especially if you want to fly at the MEA.
 
NoHeat said:
Are these airways being decommissioned even when the navaids are still operational?....
Click to expand...

It happens. There was thread here not long ago about an IAP that seemed to not make sense. Turns out there was an Airway that was ‘decommissioned’ while the VOR’s that defined it were still on the air.
 
IFR, yes, but you can and will often get assigned some direct-to shortcuts.
 
I used them when on a long cross country. VOR to VOR across the country. Today in SE AK I use the channels...:rolleyes:
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
IFR, you’ll get them assigned to you whether you like it or not. And yes you always get a reroute at some point.
Click to expand...
Depends on where you fly. Some parts of the country you get what you file and never get a reroute. Other places (going anywhere near CLT Class B for example) you are almost guaranteed to get a reroute at least once.
 
Rgbeard said:
in the Desert Southwest, we have enough restricted airspace that you're well advised to use them.

Direct-enter-enter is a good way to see a gunnery range. :)
Click to expand...
Exactly. Most places in the country you can get away with going GPS direct, but there are few areas (southwest in particular) where airways are a better way to navigate the military airspace even when VFR.
 
chemgeek said:
IFR, yes, but you can and will often get assigned some direct-to shortcuts.
Click to expand...
One of the semi-disappointing aspects of IFR training is to plan a beautiful route, Sid and all, enter all of that in the GPS and then, the right after takeoff atc clears you direct....
 
As others said, often assigned as part of IFR routing clearance, especially near terminal areas or SUAs. For VFR flight, out west, the blue lines on the charts are often plotted along a reasonable course around terrain; over valleys, through the lower passes, etc. Even if not strictly dialing in the radials and frequencies on a NAV unit, just using the VOR-to-VOR as waypoints entered in a GPS route may sometimes provide the "best" way through and around mountainous terrain. I can think of several fatal accidents over the last few many years, both VFR and IFR, that might have been avoided had the pilots planned to fly airways (more or less) instead of a direct magenta line. As VORs get decommissioned, I wish they'd leave some of those positions and routes as named waypoints for GPS use route planning.
 
I use V97 when I'm headed to aircraft Spruce. It takes me directly through atl B, and over Hartsfield. IMG_20171124_131444410 (Copy).jpg
 
Airways are common in the southeast when flying IFR. When given an airway ATC expects you to stay on the airway not just close to it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top