Do you trim over the numbers?

E

evapilotaz

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So I just wondering if this is normal.

So as I'm just crossing the numbers I give a little up trim to help relieve the pressure when I flare. Meaning I just have to give a little back pressure to hold the nose off the ground. If I'm doing a T & G if set the trim back to take off setting.

Am I weird by doing this? Oh I'm flying C172N.
 
I'm at full nose up trim on final at my normal approach speed, there is no more left.

Your airplane might be different.
 
Wow Andy, full nose up? If I did that in my Cherokee I'd be doing a loop :).

I trim on final or the FAF. I don't make any unnecessary configuration changes after that. Especially when IFR. When going in VFR I'll do flaps as needed, but lately I've been landing 1 notch or two at the most.
 
I trim as needed any time, over the numbers or wherever. Trimming is not a config change, it's just trimming off control forces.
 
petrolero said:
I trim as needed any time, over the numbers or wherever. Trimming is not a config change, it's just trimming off control forces.
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That's me, too. Full up trim in my 182 with STOL is normal.
 
Caramon13 said:
Wow Andy, full nose up? If I did that in my Cherokee I'd be doing a loop :).
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My CTSW, and LSAs in general, don't fly quite like heavier airplanes. It's also possible the CTSW doesn't have as much trim range as some airplanes.

In smooth air I normally:

1) fly downwind at 70-80kt

2) abeam numbers add 15° flaps

3) roll the trim full nose up

The airplane then slows to a trrimmed speed of ~55kt, and I just hold that speed.

When I'm sure I'll make the runway (usually late base or just after rolling out on final) I go to flaps 30° and ~50kt and keep that speed all the way to the roundout. Touchdown is 42-45kt.

It's kind of nice that I don't really have to think about where the trim is, I just roll it all the way and it sets up nicely. Of course there is no trim left, but if I get slow enough to need a lot more pressure relief I have made a grave error. :D
 
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I'm normally done trimming by the base leg.
 
I don't usually adjust the trim before landing in a 172, but in the Baron, I will typically add some nose up trim approaching the threshold.

In the Waco, I make my final trim adjustment when I start my descent from TPA and before I turn final, then I don't mess with the trim until after landing.
 
Caramon13 said:
Wow Andy, full nose up? If I did that in my Cherokee I'd be doing a loop :).



I trim on final or the FAF. I don't make any unnecessary configuration changes after that. Especially when IFR. When going in VFR I'll do flaps as needed, but lately I've been landing 1 notch or two at the most.
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Exactly. I'll do a final trim adjustment as necessary after the base-to- final turn, and then don't touch it. Since the round out and flair by definition result in varying control forces through the maneuver, I'm not sure how you "trim off" pressure at that moment when the pressure will change all the way to the chocks.
 
I think this is very type specific. In a Mooney for instance trimming throughout the whole pattern is a must. I am definitely rolling that final up trim over the numbers.
 
Full nose up trim gives me stall * 1.3 so on final, I'm full nose up trim at any flap setting. Muscle the yoke to flare, and quickly retrim to takeoff position once down, in preparation for a go around.
 
In the Cherokee, no. Whatever speed I am trimmed for on final, remains in the trim over the fence.
However, in the Baron, I too give it a little extra nose-up before the threshold to help with the flare. It helps me stay away from ballooning. But that could be just me.
 
BigBadLou said:
In the Cherokee, no. Whatever speed I am trimmed for on final, remains in the trim over the fence.
However, in the Baron, I too give it a little extra nose-up before the threshold to help with the flare. It helps me stay away from ballooning. But that could be just me.
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One of the big reasons you need to add trim in the Baron and other twins is that you usually maintain blue line or higher on the approach, but you obviously don't want to land at blue line, so when you start pulling that power back on short final, the nose does indeed get heavy.
 
Yeah, I kinda have to - I tend to fly a steadily decreasing airspeed down final (C-172); like from 100-110kts, down to 60 kts or so. Not in a VFR pattern, of course. . .anyway, I like the pressure off the yoke over the fence. I don't think you're weird, if it works for you. . .
 
I trim for the final appoach speed (75-80 MPH) and leave it. In fact, in the Navion is ends up also being the perfect takeoff setting. Just takes a slight pull to round out.
 
I'm typically on short final when I make the last big trim adjustment so that I don't have to fight to keep the nose up in the flare.
 
Trim is your friend,I use it in all phases of flight,depending on weight ,speed and configuration,not all landings are the same,trim as you need it.
 
I'm flying a Cherokee Archer and I usually am done with trim on the base leg, I might make an adjustment right after turning final if things are too far off but generally that's not needed.

On my plane the trim wheel is located between the front seats to where you're almost reaching back. To adjust trim I have to take my hand off the throttle and bring my arm down to a somewhat odd angle. On short final I want my hand on the throttle not reaching down and monkeying with the trim wheel.
 
In the Pilatus, I'm done trimming before I cross the fence.

In single Pistons, I don't stop trimming until I'm fully configured and I'm just easing back that last bit of power to idle. This means that I'm still trimming as I come into ground effect a few feet over the runway. It's all about that electric trim, yo.
 
I gots no idea where the trim is on final.....I press the button till it feels good....while looking out the window... works each time. :D
 
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In answer to the OP, virtually never now.

I do recall a P210 could be very nose heavy with just a pilot and front seat passenger on board. I may have trimmed that plane a bit while flaring, but honestly don't recall.

In any case, as an instructor a large part of what I did was to simplify things as much as possible. Landing can be challenging enough without adding additional tasks into the mix.

If you find it helps, fine - no harm, no foul. But unless a plane required an I ordinate amount of back pressure to flare, I'd leave the trim alone during the landing process.
 
Probably do, trim is just something I do, not really think about.
 
flyingron said:
I trim for the final appoach speed (75-80 MPH) and leave it. In fact, in the Navion is ends up also being the perfect takeoff setting. Just takes a slight pull to round out.
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That describes my Mooney as well, except my range is 70-75 mph depending on my weight at the time.

Trim is indeed your friend. Make a power or attitude change, trim the forces out. But on short final, I'm generally done trimming. If I had a little thumb switch, I might feel different . . .
 
Trimming at any particular point is both aircraft and situation dependent. So it depends.
 
Hank S said:
That describes my Mooney as well, except my range is 70-75 mph depending on my weight at the time.

Trim is indeed your friend. Make a power or attitude change, trim the forces out. But on short final, I'm generally done trimming. If I had a little thumb switch, I might feel different . . .
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I have a little thumb switch and generally don't trim on short final or in the roundout. I have tried trimming then and just find it distracting. I don't have Popeye forearms but they aren't wimpy by a long shot...

I have read comments that the 'kota has a heavy nose when landing but I've looked all over and just can't find it. :D
 
Lance F said:
I think this is very type specific. In a Mooney for instance trimming throughout the whole pattern is a must. I am definitely rolling that final up trim over the numbers.
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In the Stearman I trimmed it down wind and left it alone. In the mooney I agree with you, some downwind, then usually Some more final and close to the numbers and land it like a taildragger then ease the nose down.
 
In both the 152/172 and in any Grumman AA-X series I neutralize control forces with trim for the last time on turn to final at final approach speed and leave it alone after that.
 
Lance F said:
I think this is very type specific. In a Mooney for instance trimming throughout the whole pattern is a must. I am definitely rolling that final up trim over the numbers.
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I fly a Mooney and this is what I do.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
95% of the time I fly my 172N near full forward CG, so I'm at the limit of nose-up trim around the time I turn final. If there were anyone in the back seat, it wouldn't be that way. But I usually fly with my right hand resting on my right knee, so the fingers are millimeters from the trim wheel most the time anyway. It's just second nature to massage the trim one way or the other as needed.
 
In the PA28-180 with the rear seats empty I end up with full nose-up and still pulling back.

On my PPL check ride I did the initial setting (two spins) on downwind and left it. Examiner asked me why I didn't use more trim the rest of the way and I said because it doesn't have enough 'throw' anyway so I leave it a known spot, hand pull it, and I know how to put it back to takeoff without looking. He accepted that, I guess, and I got my ticket.

Practically speaking I keep trimming it until runs out now... right up thru short final.
 
My simplistic response? If I have trim left on short final I'm going way too fast.
 
Interesting to hear that in a PA-28 you're using full nose up trim rolivi. I almost always leave trim neutral and that's more than enough for me.

I guess opinions vary, but I always found that the less you do, the less you have to cleanup on a go around. The last thing I wanna do is trim all the way up, go around and then have to fuss with the trim AGAIN, or worse yet, forget and end up in a pitch high attitude on full power.

I keep it as CLEAN as possible so I have as little to do as possible IF I need to go around.
 
In my Dakota with 1 or 2 up front I definitely trim on short final as speed is degrading and elevator effectiveness lessons.
If I don't there is so much back pressure force its hard to make small adjustments right before touchdown. I have recently started adding some nose up trim even earlier, such that I may keep some slight forward pressure on downwind/base so I don't have to add so much up trim while slowing 'over the fence'.
 
Rolling that trim to the limit or that far into a landing may feel awesome when you land but its sure fire set up for poor airmanship in the event of a balked landing or go around...trimmed properly you shouldnt need to trim that much.
 
taters said:
Rolling that trim to the limit or that far into a landing may feel awesome when you land but its sure fire set up for poor airmanship in the event of a balked landing or go around...trimmed properly you shouldnt need to trim that much.
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Totally type dependent. If I don't roll the trim to the stop on my approach I will be holding significant back pressure just to keep proper speed and prevent the nose from dropping.

On a balked landing / go around, my trim is easily overpowered, I have done it many times. Then I can re-trim when convenient.

What you say may be true on the heavy jet you fly, but it's not universally applicable.
 
C 182 here. 1st set of flaps two spins trim up. 2nd set of flaps two spins. Full flaps 2 spins.
 
bullwinkle said:
I'm at full nose up trim on final at my normal approach speed, there is no more left.

Your airplane might be different.
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In my old 172, I'm forward of the front CG limit if I am by myself with no weight in the cargo area. So I too am usually on final with a lot of nose up trim.

Last flight me and the wife had some cargo and two folding bikes and the landings were so much nicer with the more aft CG.
 
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