Do You Think Airlines Will Ever Pay For Training?

[Mxfarm]

I agree, the system is broken…but it was broken long before “that number” became the minimum standard to which many pilots strive. Mediocrity has long been a goal in aviation. Too many pilots want the seat and the seniority number, and will do the absolute minimum to get there.

Giving people a ‘free ride’ to that seat will make it even worse.

 

[Larry in TN]

No, it IS that number

It isn't even one number! 750, 1000, 1250, or 1500 total time, depending on the training the pilot's received.
75 hours of instrument, 250 PIC including 100 cross-country and 25 night, 10 hours in a FSTD in turbine airplane operations, 6 of which in a Level C full-motion sim, are just some of the additional requirements.

There's a lot more to the ATP requirement than just building total time yet (the highest of) the total time requirements is just about the only thing that the detractors mention. The benefit doesn't come just from the higher total-time, it comes from all the other experience and training that an ATP has received that a low-time CPL has not.

 

[Tantalum]

How much does one really need to stuff in their casket?

It's more about this feeling of potential guilt about not working hard enough/having enough, what-if. It's probably at least partially the product of an upbringing fueled by Catholic-guilt and immigrant parents who had left a Soviet occupied country

 

[Tantalum]

Mediocrity has long been a goal in aviation

Unfortunately a desire towards mediocrity is beginning to pervade all aspects of life, not just aviation.

 

[fasteddie]

On your observation of the industry at large, you are correct, especially on the regional piece. As you said, this is a regional captain shortage. A queing problem that no amount of regional FO hiring can fix. The answer is one of three doors:
1 fold the regional model,
2 dilute the requirements to be a part 121 captain at the regionals,
3 cancel flying and **** off the captive audience consumer until the recession "fixes" the hiring at the majors again.

My guess? Door 3 is what's more likely. No soup (free ab initio airline training) for OP in his lifetime I'm afraid.

Yeah, it seems like the current state of affairs isn't so much "a pilot shortage" as it is "an evolution of the regional airline model."

"Regional" aircraft have gotten bigger over the years. What used to be the realm of a lot of small aircraft 19 seats and up evolved to 50 seaters, and onto the current E-jets and CRJs seating 70-100 or more.

The current regional model was built on the assumption of availability of labor at a certain price point. That availability has started to dry up. The focus is on pilots here, but the same issue is occurring with Flight Attendants and maintenance techs.

This is all untenable for the airlines. United, Delta, and American all bet big on the regional model in the early 2000s, and bought a lot of regional aircraft. These fleets still have a lot of life left in them, and the airlines need to keep them flying.

I'm interested to see where it all goes.

 

[Eric Brunelle]

RE: teachers. One word: tenure. Oh, one more: holidays.

RE: medical disqualifications. I'm an anesthesiologist. Every day, I make decisions and perform procedures that can cure or kill. Right now, I couldn't get a Class I medical.

Re: teachers - one more- work your ass off for low pay, then work all summer to make up the difference.

 

[Groundpounder]

I don’t think they will for the reasons already mentioned. I don’t think the initial investment is bad considering career total income possible. All one needs is to get to commercial then they can get flying jobs to ATP mins. I started flight instructing at 19 and by 20 was flying a 400 series Cessna for aerial mapping. ATP mins came quickly while getting paid good enough to get by.

9/11 and the following timing wasn’t great and I made the switch to ATC. Worked out well for me but I still find myself wishing sometimes I had bit the bullet and stuck with it. As mentioned, very cyclical industry. Year you were born matters as much (possibly more) as skill/experience.

Reference @OneCharlieTango and @Tantalum discussion on generational differences, I’m on the X/Millennial bubble being early 40’s…I’d trade money for time off. How much does one really need to stuff in their casket?

How long till you retire from ATC? If you still have the desire, it shouldn't be that hard for you to get a flying job once you're done.

 

[Radar Contact]

How long till you retire from ATC? If you still have the desire, it shouldn't be that hard for you to get a flying job once you're done.

I have about 8 years left. There’s a few guys doing corporate jet charter stuff at our airport with pretty flexible schedules. Thinking I’m more likely to go that route for the flexibility. If I can find one of those unicorn jobs then. While I could go 121 for 16 years after I retire I’m not thinking I want to work that long. I’ll probably just be floating on a lake in East Tennessee watching the contrails go by.