Do you normally make clearing turns in routine VFR flight?

jesse said:
I think that's a reach Ron. I see very few pilots doing it and statistically speaking it's extremely unlikely it would ever matter.
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The fact that you see very few pilots doing it doesn't mean that's a good way to fly.
Could you point me the part of the PTS that states a pilot must pick a wing up before making a normal turn from straight and level flight?
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Throughout the flight portion of the practical test, the examiner shall
evaluate the applicant’s use of visual scanning and collision​
avoidance procedures.
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Typical areas of unsatisfactory performance and grounds for
disqualification are:​
...​
2. Failure to use proper and effective visual scanning​
techniques to clear the area before and while performing​
maneuvers.
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...and the wing-lifting ("chicken wing") is mentioned repeatedly in FAA guidance on "proper and effective visual scanning techniques" for high-wing aircraft.
 
Ron Levy said:
The fact that you see very few pilots doing it doesn't mean that's a good way to fly.
...and the wing-lifting ("chicken wing") is mentioned repeatedly in FAA guidance on "proper and effective visual scanning techniques" for high-wing aircraft.
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So what you're saying is the PTS does not say that. I've never seen nor heard of a DPE failing someone for not lifting a wing on EVERY turn.

Just because it could remotely in theory maybe make flying safer does not mean that not doing so is a bad way to fly. At the end of the day people pick and choose what they want to do to be safe. Since there is no measurable risk not doing so I sure the hell am not going to beat up a pilot doing advanced training over it.
 
No clearing turns here either during VFR. I DO look the direction of the turn and opposite (like turning left or right in a car). I do find when on an IFR flight plan I get a little lax with "clearing" before turning, though the responsibility to see and avoid when not IMC is all mine.
 
Johann said:
There's a million dollar idea!, transparent wings!
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/09/17/airbus-wants-build-invisible-passenger-planes/
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There were some experiments with clear wing sections on ultralights, using vinyl in place of the fabric. Even without the weight/strength issues, they're not clear enough to actually see through well enough to spot traffic.

The Zenith guys have done a good job reducing blind spots to a minimum, with the clear cabin top and beveled wing roots, but a lot of pilots don't like flying without shade.
 
I had a DPE basically force me to lift my wing every time I made any sort of a maneuver. At one point he took the controls and told me that if I didn't take the time to scan while my wing was lifted we'd "have a problem". Needless to say I busted my checkride.

I've head several CFI's (one primary, and a few others while the main one was out of town) during my year-and-a-half long journey to become a pilot, but I was never taught to lift my wings in a turn. I was always taught to simply look in the direction I was headed. Most other people I've flown with do the same.

Funny enough I asked the other DPE I used if I needed to lift my wing before I make my turn...and this one said, "just make sure you're safe, so you can if you want."

EDIT: Just to clarify, the notice of disapproval did not state that I failed based on having a lack of situational awareness. The first DPE I used is notorious for scaring people by telling them they're close to failure. I'm glad I called the guy out for being such a pompous jerk after my exam.
 
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alexgeo said:
I had a DPE basically force me to lift my wing every time I made any sort of a maneuver. At one point he took the controls and told me that if I didn't take the time to scan while my wing was lifted we'd "have a problem". Needless to say I busted my checkride.

I've head several CFI's (one primary, and a few others while the main one was out of town) during my year-and-a-half long journey to become a pilot, but I was never taught to lift my wings in a turn. I was always taught to simply look in the direction I was headed. Most other people I've flown with do the same.

Funny enough I asked the other DPE I used if I needed to lift my wing before I make my turn...and this one said, "just make sure you're safe, so you can if you want."

EDIT: Just to clarify, the notice of disapproval did not state that I failed based on having a lack of situational awareness. The first DPE I used is notorious for scaring people by telling them they're close to failure. I'm glad I called the guy out for being such a pompous jerk after my exam.
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It truly amazes me how many CFIs send their students up with DPEs without any heads up about the examiner's idiosyncrasies.

If an examiner has some kind of thing about 'lifting a wing' for every maneuver, your CFI should have given you a heads up.
 
If I had a CFI comment on not lifting a wing to check my side I'd put home plate on the nose and find a new one.
 
The impression I get is do whatever you can do to improve situational awareness. If picking up a wing, dipping the nose, doing a clearing turn helps to improve SA, why not just do it. GM turned the lights on on cars to improve seeing someone. The FAA recommends landing lights on within 10 miles of the landing airport.
It's the thing you don't see that will get you.
 
jesse said:
I think that's a reach Ron. I see very few pilots doing it and statistically speaking it's extremely unlikely it would ever matter.
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It only takes the one time to matter A LOT. Maybe not to you, but to people who know you.

Ask the guy who's searching Folsom Lake this week for the plane that his brother was aboard, 50 years ago. A Comanche at 2500 AGL, mid-air with a Debonair. Both involved planes were low-wing, flown by high-time pilots, with plenty of room to maneuver . . .except that they didn't see each other.
 
SoloEqs said:
It only takes the one time to matter A LOT. Maybe not to you, but to people who know you.

Ask the guy who's searching Folsom Lake this week for the plane that his brother was aboard, 50 years ago. A Comanche at 2500 AGL, mid-air with a Debonair. Both involved planes were low-wing, flown by high-time pilots, with plenty of room to maneuver . . .except that they didn't see each other.
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And picking up a wing wouldn't have mattered since they are low wings. Statistically speaking if you look at midairs you won't find many where picking up a wing would have mattered.

I'm not saying it's not a good idea to pick up a wing, I'm saying as a flight instructor you need to pick and chose your battles. If you try to force every possible thing on a certificated pilot that could maybe possibly but unlikely increase their safety you'll be an incredibly annoying instructor nobody will want to fly with.

A good instructor carefully watches how an already experienced pilot flys and looks for the things that they're obviously weak in and you then address those things. If they're doing something that is indeed dangerous then you correct that.

Instructors that try a one-size-fits-all training method to every student or pilot they encounter is not going to be effective. If I annoy someone and they fire me they'll find someone else and at that point there isn't **** I can do to make them better. There's always a bad instructor out there that will sign anything. I try to keep people with me so they don't stoop to them. You do that by being reasonable and flexible.

You don't have to like my methods. But I've found those that fly with me do. I sign off less than 50% of IPCs I perform on the first flight and they always come back.

Id like to see how successful an instructor would be in a region if they didn't sign a flight review simply because the pilot didn't pick the wing up before a turn. (Hint: they wouldn't be, pilots talk)

Tell me how many life's would be saved over a million flight hours by forcing a high wing pilot to pick up a wing before every turn. You have to look at the big picture.
 
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Most aircraft are blind on their six. Why not do a crazy ivan every 10 minutes or so just to be sure someone isn't overtaking you?

How about on the climb out every few minutes pitch over aggressively just to make sure you are not going head to head with anyone?

Or to improve the odds with pilots not on FF and without mode S just announce on the areas CTAF your position, altitude, and direction. Then ask all traffic in the area to please advise.

OH and when you rock those wings really get into it maybe 80 degrees and hold it for a good look.

Those are the best safety tips I have to avoid a mid-air collision.:rofl:
 
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