do you keep carb heat on for landing?

Checkout_my_Six said:
what does altitude have anything do with ice?.....it's humidity that forms ice.

Sorry....I disagree.

One needs a good go-around discipline of turning off the heat while applying full power....not a big deal for one who is trained to do it.
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I agree with you...The delay, if any, is totally insignificant if done simultaneously with the addition of power... I'm not even sure the difference in power, with carb heat on, would make that much difference at full power.... I need to look at that next time I fly...
 
I think some of you are more scared of your mixture knob than the carb heat knob:eek:

If you're THAT worried about carb heat stealing HP, then adjust your mix a tad.
 
Well..... I've dragged my landing gear through treetops with three passengers in the plane after a go-around when I failed to push in the carb heat. I knew instantly that the plane wasn't running right but I had hands too full to deal with why in that brief few HOLY **** seconds. It makes more difference than you might think. Mistakes happen unless we take steps to prevent them from being able to happen. Simulated procedures don't account for the stress or adrenaline rush of an actual unexpected event.

My mixture goes full rich on short final, too. Prop flat and cowl flaps open. I'm set up just like I would be to launch from a standing start except I'm moving and probably have full flaps out. You guys will poo poo that, too, right? My plane rocks on a full flap go-around if it's making full power. And I occasionally practice that.
 
Stewartb said:
Mistakes happen unless we take steps to prevent them from being able to happen.
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Which is why most people are trained to use carb heat anytime bellow the green arc versus relying on your judgment as to whether carb heat is needed or not. We are all free to do as we see fit however, the NTSB will quote the POH when they do an accident investigation as to way someone's engine died on short final.
 
......and the Grumman POH is not very helpful in that regard.
 
As they'd note carb heat was on when the plane failed to clear obstacles. Come fly short strips over big obstacles and you'll understand my perspective, and that's all it is. We're just comparing ideas.

My carb heat is taken from the muffler shroud, a custom mod that makes it incredibly effective even at low power settings.
 
Stewartb said:
I never land with carb heat on. I push it in on final in preparation for a go-around. I want the plane configured for maximum performance when I get close to the ground.
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This is the way I was taught flying Cessnas.
 
Stewartb said:
Short final to a narrow short strip. Big trees all around. You're already fighting the wind but when you get to the treetop level the bottom drops out. It requires an immediate response. Do you think you'll remember to push in carb heat? I bet you won't. Been there several times. I've adjusted my carb heat procedure accordingly.
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I can honestly say I haven't missed pushing it in or turning it off in a go around or other scenario where I want it off, in over 20 years.

Can't say the same for turning on the ****ing fuel pump in Pipers. Ha.

Primacy. You'll do what you're first taught, later under stress. Someone didn't slap you hard enough the first time you did it wrong. Haha.
 
Stewartb said:
As they'd note carb heat was on when the plane failed to clear obstacles.
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Exactly. All you have to do is search the NTSB database for the term 'carb heat' and you'll find plenty of accidents attributed to trying to takeoff/go-around with the carb heat on.
 
Stewartb said:
Well..... I've dragged my landing gear through treetops with three passengers in the plane after a go-around when I failed to push in the carb heat. I knew instantly that the plane wasn't running right but I had hands too full to deal with why in that brief few HOLY **** seconds. It makes more difference than you might think. Mistakes happen unless we take steps to prevent them from being able to happen. Simulated procedures don't account for the stress or adrenaline rush of an actual unexpected event.

My mixture goes full rich on short final, too. Prop flat and cowl flaps open. I'm set up just like I would be to launch from a standing start except I'm moving and probably have full flaps out. You guys will poo poo that, too, right? My plane rocks on a full flap go-around if it's making full power. And I occasionally practice that.
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Mixture full rich?
 
James331 said:
Short final, 500ish AGL, for that amount of time you're really not going to have a huge risk of ice, much higher risk of needing to do a go around, and at that late in the game any go around is going to be one where you need 100% power like right now
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Agreed. Just recently adopted this method in the 182. Used to have it on until after landing but this makes more sense to me.
 
James331 said:
Mixture full rich?
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I'll go mixture full rich on short final, but only in low density-altitude conditions. Higher up, a full-rich mixture would rob more power on a go-around than would carb heat. I'll set the red knob for an estimate of where it should be for best power at field elevation; there will be time for fine tuning later.
 
Pilawt said:
I'll go mixture full rich on short final, but only in low density-altitude conditions. Higher up, a full-rich mixture would rob more power on a go-around than would carb heat. I'll set the red knob for an estimate of where it should be for best power at field elevation; there will be time for fine tuning later.
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Mixture to DA
 
Stewartb said:
As they'd note carb heat was on when the plane failed to clear obstacles. Come fly short strips over big obstacles and you'll understand my perspective, and that's all it is. We're just comparing ideas.

My carb heat is taken from the muffler shroud, a custom mod that makes it incredibly effective even at low power settings.
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Many of those airplanes, especially the 180/182 with the carb heat off the muffler shroud, have way too much carb heat. They make the engine run far too rich so it stumbles and hesitates. I used to lean those engines some when I pulled the carb heat on.

In really cold weather carb heat can help the engine respond better in a go-around. It vaporizes the fuel better into that cold air.
 
korben88 said:
I'm guessing you are in Denver, and me being in Salt lake our altitudes are similar. We land and take off full rich though.
It used to be leaned for altitude until someone burned up an engine. Now the cfi/owner wants everything done at full rich except taxi and cruise.
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That's really, really wrong.

When flight schools conflict with the POH, there needs to be a DAMN good reason.

You sometimes need to lean for takeoff at Fresno in summer in a Cessna. That's 350 MSL. The 3000 feet in the POH is density altitude. Believe me, you can feel the difference in a loaded 182.
 
I never land with carb heat on in my Cherokee.. it's unfiltered air.. My POH says to only use it when needed but my instructors have always taught me to use it abeam the numbers, on base, and then off on final...
 
Indiana_Pilot said:
I never land with carb heat on in my Cherokee.. it's unfiltered air.. My POH says to only use it when needed but my instructors have always taught me to use it abeam the numbers, on base, and then off on final...
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That's irritating.

Not necessary on a Piper. The POH is right. Imagine that.

Carb heat is usually necessary when reducing power to land in a carbureted Cessna. Which is why it's in THAT POH in the before-landing checklist.
 
Yes, Cessna 172 manuals recommend carb heat whenever power is reduced, Cherokee manuals do not. There is a reason for that. Cherokees and later 172s have similar engines, but the temperature distribution within the cowlings and around the carburetor are different. I have nearly 1000 hours in each. I've experienced carb ice even at cruise settings in my 172, but have had indications of carb ice in Cherokees maybe twice.

Such subtlety is unfortunately beyond the ken of some CFIs, who think that if a procedure is right for one type, by cracky, it must be right for all.
 
I once had carb ice in cruise in a 182.
 
FlySince9 said:
... I'm not even sure the difference in power, with carb heat on, would make that much difference at full power.... I need to look at that next time I fly...
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I'll save you the trouble. The flapper in my carb heat box broke a hinge and defaulted to Wide Open. I noticed in the air, both low climb rate (~200 fpm instead of 1000 fpm), and reduced cruise speed. It happened leaving the NC mountains at Thanksgiving; I had no idea what was wrong in the air. Atlanta Approach was surprised, and asked if I was really a Mooney . . .

Poked around under the cowl, pushed it closed and took off. Had my normal 1000 fpm climb for several hundred feet, then suddenly 200 fpm again. Landed at my A&P's place, Carb Heat was wide open. New cable, some welding and grinding, a nice check, and I've not had those two problems again (feeble climb and reduced speed).
 
Depends mostly on the engine and what the engine manufactuer AND POH say. On Lycomings, I typically don't use Carb Heat on landing as Lycoming says don't. On Continentals, I ALWAYS use it. The O-300 in my Swift has been known to make ice on sustained climb out at near full power on a hot summer day, requiring use of carb heat. My Cub's C-85 has been known to make ice only during low power operations.


iamtheari said:
Just another perspective:

In the 85hp J-3 I fly, I turn on the carb heat for every landing (and if I ever flew it high enough to make a descent other than for landing, I'd turn it on while descending as well). The carb heat control is recessed into the lower right wall near the rudder pedal for the rear set, which is where you sit when flying solo. There is a kitchen jar lifter tucked in the back pocket of the front seat, useful for pulling the carb heat knob back to open it. I close it with my right toe. On short final and roll-out, you don't want your foot anywhere but firmly planted on the rudder pedal and you can't really be bending forward over the stick to reach the knob with your hand or the jar lifter.
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I use a piece of ribstitch cord tied to knob in front and front edge of rear seat frame. Much easier to pull on. I also use my right foot on short final to go cold.
 
If anyone is teaching a procedure outside of the one published in the poh.... God help you if there's an accident.
 
N3368K said:
Depends mostly on the engine and what the engine manufactuer AND POH say. On Lycomings, I typically don't use Carb Heat on landing as Lycoming says don't.
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The POH trumps the engine manufacturer's instructions. If Cessna says to use it on the Lyc in their airplane, then use it.

I have seen Lycs ice up on nice summer mornings shortly after startup. It all depends on the spread between temperature and dewpoint, just like the carb icing risk charts show. I find way too many pilots that do not understand this. Instructors, too, by the dozens. They teach it by rote, not understanding the conditions or the physics that cause carb ice nor the source of the heat, which is why some accidents happen during practice forced approaches. They pull the carb heat on, then glide for three thousand feet without opening the the throttle every so often and heating up that exhaust system to get some carb heat to remove any ice that might have accumulated. In the overshoot, the engine fails to respond and a real forced landing happens.
 
My C-180's stock used a heat robber shroud on one of the exhaust risers. Weak. Had Atlee Dodge add an outlet to the new muffler shroud. Very effective. Some guys say too effective. It's meant to melt ice. Mission accomplished.
 
Dan Thomas said:
The POH trumps the engine manufacturer's instructions. If Cessna says to use it on the Lyc in their airplane, then use it.
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If I were flying a Cessna, that would be dandy but I'm not. Piper doesn't call for it but as needed. But I'm not flying a Cherokee but on rare occasions. Experimentals, well I do as Lycoming directs. I've never had icing in a Lycoming despite living/flying in a high humidity area frequently in the icing envelope.

I have seen Lycs ice up on nice summer mornings shortly after startup. It all depends on the spread between temperature and dewpoint, just like the carb icing risk charts show. I find way too many pilots that do not understand this. Instructors, too, by the dozens. They teach it by rote, not understanding the conditions or the physics that cause carb ice nor the source of the heat, which is why some accidents happen during practice forced approaches. They pull the carb heat on, then glide for three thousand feet without opening the the throttle every so often and heating up that exhaust system to get some carb heat to remove any ice that might have accumulated. In the overshoot, the engine fails to respond and a real forced landing happens.
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I trust this was a generic comment and not directed specifically at me, otherwise you've made some rather bold assumptions.
 
N3368K said:
I trust this was a generic comment and not directed specifically at me, otherwise you've made some rather bold assumptions.
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Generic. AOPA says the single biggest cause of engine failures is carb ice. That says something about the generic pilot population, right? And the comments often seen on POA and other sites that reveal a certain lack of understanding about carb ice. Things like it being a threat only in winter, or only in cloud or icing conditions, etc.
 
Palmpilot said:
I once had carb ice in cruise in a 182.
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The above happened in summer, by the way, on a severe clear day. Temps near sea level were in the 90s. (I was at 6,500 IIRC.)
 
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