Do you have personal minimums related to other pilots with whom you would ride?

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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I sort of realized that I am very new to flying and as of late have just been flying all over creation with lots of new pilots. My CFI is churning them out.

Anytime someone gets their ticket, we trade rides and whatnot.

My wife asked "So you think it is safe to get in a plane with a brand new pilot?"

I am a brand new pilot so it never occurred to me to question it.

Those of you that have been around the block, Do you have personal rules related to at what point you will get in a plane with a pilot?
Certain number of hours, months, etc?

This isn't directed at anyone on POA. I have flown with a few of you. In my local area, I have gone up with some friends 5-10 hours post checkride.
 
There are pilots who I have flown with that have 50 hours and I felt perfectly safe. There are pilots I have flown with who had 5,000 hours and I was terrified.

Not flying with someone because they don't have x amount of hours is kinda silly. Assuming someone is safe because they have whatever amount of hours you deem acceptable is equally silly.
 
Ok, that makes a lot of sense. There are certain people whose driving scares the hell out of me and it is not experience related.
 
DavidWhite said:
There are pilots who I have flown with that have 50 hours and I felt perfectly safe. There are pilots I have flown with who had 5,000 hours and I was terrified.

Not flying with someone because they don't have x amount of hours is kinda silly. Assuming someone is safe because they have whatever amount of hours you deem acceptable is equally silly.
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:yeahthat:
 
Have you noticed when a GA plane augers in there is usually a screaming passenger that buys the farm along with the schmuck on the yoke.
Do you want to be that screaming passenger?
It takes less than the fingers of one hand to count the pilots/planes I will ride with/in.
 
I look at recency of flight. Ive found flying with 60 hr guys that have flown within the last few weeks arent too bad, on other hand I flew with a 200 hr + pilot that scared the crap out of me.....he hadnt flown in 60 days.
 
I'll fly with anyone as long as they agree in advance that if I say "My airplane" it IS my airplane.
 
Generally, if I trust them driving me in their car, I'll trust them flying their plane.

I love flying with the new folks, though on MVFR days or days with crosswinds near the margin, I might pass....
 
Observed or experienced unconservative decision making or lack of skill, sometimes both It isn't hours related.
 
One of the most pucker inducing flights I've ever been on was sitting in the backseat with two newbie CFI's in the front.

It all really depends on the situation, but I generally don't like to be in the back of airplanes anymore.
 
DavidWhite said:
There are pilots who I have flown with that have 50 hours and I felt perfectly safe. There are pilots I have flown with who had 5,000 hours and I was terrified.

Not flying with someone because they don't have x amount of hours is kinda silly. Assuming someone is safe because they have whatever amount of hours you deem acceptable is equally silly.
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Well, first impressions count. I rode with a fresh PPL ONCE he wasn't trained at my school. He'll wind up killing himself. He was in complete panic mode the entire time. He actually hit me because he thought I would be in the way of his flaps. The only reason I wasn't in sheer terror is because I had a couple hundred hours in the type of plane we were in and had no doubts about my ability to get us on the ground safely. I would hate to be a non pilot passenger in the plane with him.
 
write-stuff said:
I'll fly with anyone as long as they agree in advance that if I say "My airplane" it IS my airplane.
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Brings up a good point.

So lets say you are sitting right seat with another pilot (experience level doesn't matter)

Let's say Engine out at a semi critical phase of flight, birdstrike or other emergency.

Do you try and take over? I think there would be a very strong urge to do so.
 
Go by the pilots overall attitude towards life in general. If they take chances while driving ,it's a good indication you might want to rethink the ride.
 
Jhernandez04 said:
If you dont want to ride with me all you had to do is say so ;)
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HAHAHA!!!
Nah, you owe me a ride sometime after being brave enough to get in my plane in the middle of the night and getting scolded by the tower for not calling my own bases. Still seems like that was strange of him.
 
frfly172 said:
Go by the pilots overall attitude towards life in general. If they take chances while driving ,it's a good indication you might want to rethink the ride.
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Thats not true at all.

The way I drive my corvette is not the way i will ever fly a plane. That example is a bad one.


I'll agree your first example is a good one. "Attitude towards life in general" that might be true. But driving a car.... nah
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
HAHAHA!!!
Nah, you owe me a ride sometime after being brave enough to get in my plane in the middle of the night and getting scolded by the tower for not calling my own bases. Still seems like that was strange of him.
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Well it impressed upon me to always call my own bases... lol I havent made the mistake yet...
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Brings up a good point.

So lets say you are sitting right seat with another pilot (experience level doesn't matter)

Let's say Engine out at a semi critical phase of flight, birdstrike or other emergency.

Do you try and take over? I think there would be a very strong urge to do so.
Click to expand...


Only if they're being blatantly irresponsible in handling it. Put yourself in the other position....if it was you in your plane, would you appreciate a pilot you may barely know, who has limited experience in your airplane trying to take the controls in a critical situation? I'd punch them in the throat before their arrogant butt got us both killed.
 
write-stuff said:
I'll fly with anyone as long as they agree in advance that if I say "My airplane" it IS my airplane.
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That is GREAT.

I may adopt that line and "forget" to give you credit, when i use it...
 
write-stuff said:
I'll fly with anyone as long as they agree in advance that if I say "My airplane" it IS my airplane.
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What makes you think you could do better than they could at handling their airplane?
 
I know someone currently working on thier private liscence and has just boight an R44 helicopter. Has no fixed wing time. If he is still alive in ten years I will at least consider flying with him. Young , loads of money, great guy, but, I have concerns about judgement. Sure hope I am completely wrong. Do not know him that well so I may be way off base but would hate to see him get hurt.
 
You can learn a lot talking to the local FBO about someone who offers you a ride. If you see them cringe... RUN! On the other hand, I often wonder what they say about me. I've never made a flight where I was concerned about the outcome... Except maybe that IcelandAir 757 where the pilot got three landings at Manchester UK.
 
A"brand new pilot" is a greenhorn. Unless I was competent in that model airplane , I would not go near it with a recent ppl. I never fly with anyone unless I know them well and they have a lot of hours. Not worth the risk. A person who just got their private ticket has only begun to learn.
 
Interesting question, I've never thought of it.

I probably wouldn't get into an airplane with someone unless I felt comfortable with the situation were I to be flying. If I weren't, then I'd probably need to know them personally or be familiar with their training. I think that training would probably have to be at the professional level - military, 121, experienced CFI who has recency in type and WX, etc. The reason why is because in I don't think that in GA you get the recurrent training in handling emergencies that you need.

I would probably get into a SE, non-complex, GA airplane with just about anyone in pretty much any reasonable WX.

I probably wouldn't get into a GA ME airplane with anyone unless they satisfied the second part of what a I mentioned above. That includes me flying solo b/c I haven't flown GA ME in a while.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
Brings up a good point.

So lets say you are sitting right seat with another pilot (experience level doesn't matter)

Let's say Engine out at a semi critical phase of flight, birdstrike or other emergency.

Do you try and take over? I think there would be a very strong urge to do so.
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Their airplane their rules.
 
Everskyward said:
What makes you think you could do better than they could at handling their airplane?
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edited due to possible differing interpretation of his post -

I think what he is saying is not that he will take the controls in an emergency, but rather that he will take the controls if the PF is about to kill both of them. Emergency or not.
 
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I won't take any passenger who insists on sitting in the front seat. I won't take any passenger who insists they take control whenever they decide to.

BTW, I've been in both those situations. When my passenger insisted he had to sit in front, I refused to fly him. When my passenger insisted on being able to take control, I agreed, but later decided not to do it ever again.

When they are PIC they get to make the rules. When I am, I do.
 
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DavidWhite said:
edited due to possible differing interpretation of his post -

I think what he is saying is not that he will take the controls in an emergency, but rather that he will take the controls if the PF is about to kill both of them. Emergency or not.
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I think what he said was pretty open-ended.
 
I fly with people of varying skill and judgement all the time. Granted it's usually in the role of being an instructor. I've never had someone challenge me if I suggest we do something differently but I usually have a decent reason as to why.

I don't take over controls unless metal was about to be bent and I'm pretty good at making that decision. I've never had someone question me as to when or why I got on the controls.

By best advice would be to not fly with anyone who doesn't respect your opinion. You should be able to determine that before you get in an airplane with them.

I've terminated a few flights where I had no doubt about our safety but knew the other party was beyond their comfort level and was no longer having fun.
 
DavidWhite said:
edited due to possible differing interpretation of his post -

I think what he is saying is not that he will take the controls in an emergency, but rather that he will take the controls if the PF is about to kill both of them. Emergency or not.
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Sidebar DavidWhite,

I have gotten so far as to determining your avitar is from a scene in a comedy by a German comic named Vicco von Bülow who did comedy under the Alias "Loriot". As of yet unable to locate the specific film / sketch.


Carry on.
 
Newly minted PPs are recent and on PTS standards or they wouldn't pass. So in their neighborhood I think they'd be pretty good. Pilots who haven't flown in 6-12 mos. might be a tad rusty depending on their experience level before they took a break. My husband hasn't flown in several years but I'm sure he could fly the snock out of a plane if he got in one, however he is woefully behind in terms of regs, radio work, avionics etc.

I get in planes with all types as a CFI .... Which of course means I am quite happy to offer an opinion here and there especially if asked. If I'm just flying with another pilot, like a friend where we are going on a trip, then before we get in the plane we discuss very specifically the division of labor in the cockpit and what the PIC expects in terms of help or not. Say with radios etc.
I did a flight review with a friend who is a very good pilot and we had an urgent situation with the engine and had to divert. I asked him if he wanted me to do the radio while he did the troubleshooting, but I didn't just take it on myself to do so. It boils down to clear communication between pilots.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
A"brand new pilot" is a greenhorn. Unless I was competent in that model airplane , I would not go near it with a recent ppl. I never fly with anyone unless I know them well and they have a lot of hours. Not worth the risk. A person who just got their private ticket has only begun to learn.
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Fair point, though I disagree on being that dismissive towards a low hour pilot. In my case, I'm a 50 hour pilot, and if another pilot refused a flight solely on my hours it would have me questioning whether I have any business taking non-rated passengers up. I've learned a lot from flying with more experienced pilots, but to have one be completely dismissive of my PIC privileges (i.e., insisting they have the right to take over the airplane at any point) based on a low level of experience would almost feel like a personal setback, and that seems to be the tone of a few posts in this thread.

That said, I'm as picky as anyone else about who I'll fly with, but total time doesn't personally factor into it for the day VFR flying I do. If we were talking an actual IMC flight, I might get a little more apprehensive with a low hour pilot.
 
Jayhawk said:
Fair point, though I disagree on being that dismissive towards a low hour pilot. In my case, I'm a 50 hour pilot, and if another pilot refused a flight solely on my hours it would have me questioning whether I have any business taking non-rated passengers up. I've learned a lot from flying with more experienced pilots, but to have one be completely dismissive of my PIC privileges (i.e., insisting they have the right to take over the airplane at any point) based on a low level of experience would almost feel like a personal setback, and that seems to be the tone of a few posts in this thread.



That said, I'm as picky as anyone else about who I'll fly with, but total time doesn't personally factor into it for the day VFR flying I do. If we were talking an actual IMC flight, I might get a little more apprehensive with a low hour pilot.
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I agree. If someone told me the only way they'd ride is being able to take control at any time, they could nicely go buzz off, and would not be riding. I know they wouldn't appreciate that if the situation were reversed. And I definitely know they aren't current or even competent on my aircraft, so they're quite likely to kill us all trying to be mr hero in an emergency.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My wife asked "So you think it is safe to get in a plane with a brand new pilot?"

I am a brand new pilot so it never occurred to me to question it.

Those of you that have been around the block, Do you have personal rules related to at what point you will get in a plane with a pilot?
Certain number of hours, months, etc?
Click to expand...

DavidWhite said:
There are pilots who I have flown with that have 50 hours and I felt perfectly safe. There are pilots I have flown with who had 5,000 hours and I was terrified.
Click to expand...

This. Hours and years of experience mean nothing. Judgement means everything.

There are very few pilots I wouldn't fly with if I was seated at a control station... I love to fly and will take *almost* any opportunity to do so, if I believe the pilot isn't going to be getting in over their head.

The list of pilots who I'd fly with in the BACK seat, however, is exceedingly small... I could probably count 'em on one hand, and I don't think I'd fly with anyone in the back without first flying with them in the front, so I can see how they operate.

As an example - The last person I rode in the back seat of his plane, I did so without a second thought. When I've flown with him, he's always been very methodical, very thoughtful, handles the plane with ease, and even though he's one of the best pilots I know, he still is a student of the craft and gets recurrent training on a regular basis. And if you say "That sounds like Dave Siciliano," you'd be correct.

Jimmy cooper said:
A"brand new pilot" is a greenhorn. Unless I was competent in that model airplane , I would not go near it with a recent ppl. I never fly with anyone unless I know them well and they have a lot of hours. Not worth the risk. A person who just got their private ticket has only begun to learn.
Click to expand...

Disagree. If they just got their private and they want to fly me on a nice VFR day, I'd happily go with them - They've got enough *recent* experience and have demonstrated their competence on all areas of the PTS, and someone way more experienced than I deemed them safe to go forth and fly others. They probably also realize that they don't know it all yet and would be willing to listen if I said I thought they were getting us into a potentially bad situation.

I'll be in the front seat, though. ;)
 
write-stuff said:
I'll fly with anyone as long as they agree in advance that if I say "My airplane" it IS my airplane.
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You won't ever get in anything I'm flying. :no:

I just talked to a guy and he said he won't ride in a plane unless he's PIC. I asked how many hours he had last year: 6.5.

nuff said.
 
Oh, another good reason to have a throw-over yoke, and rudders on the right that fold to the floor. You get to take controls when I GIVE it to you.
 
I don't foresee any pilot being able to take the controls from me unless I let them.
 
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