Do you fly beyond your means?

Unit74

Unit74

Final Approach
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Unit74
I broke my plane today. Based on what I know, I'm expecting a $2k bill or worse. I was planning on having a GPSS installed soon and all I'm waiting on is one more part for the installation. That's on hold now. That got me thinking.....


How many pilots who own a plane, if something major went wrong, could they afford to fix it? I can take the small hits, but if I needed an overhaul today, I'd be screwed. I cannot afford a $40k bank dump. I'd have to steal it all from my retirement at I'm sure would be a throat lumping penalty.

I feel like I'm living a rich mans life on a Mac and cheese budget. It scares me sometimes.
 
You just have to borrow the money,the banks have plenty.
 
Right now I budget about $1500/mo for the plane and all expenses. When I get drilled with a big bill, I end up not flying that month or so. I hate letting her sit. When I had my Archer, I really didn't give a chit about the bills. When I stepped into this Lance, my expenses basically tripled and I was not anticipating that. Love the plane, but she bleeding me dry.
 
Where there's a will, there's a way.

A few side jobs / odd jobs, here and there, a rental property or two, sell a few items, cut budget a few places (eat out less, use coupons, etc.), sublet the hanger and tie down outside for a year, you can come up with more creative ideas
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Where there's a will, there's a way.

A few side jobs / odd jobs, here and there, a rental property or two, sell a few items, cut budget a few places (eat out less, use coupons, etc.), sublet the hanger and tie down outside for a year, you can come up with more creative ideas
Click to expand...

Also, take a partner in the airplane. A lot of expenses are fixed (hangar, insurance, annual inspection, ...) so halving those with just one partner can make a big difference.
 
It's not really a starving student issue. Is more of an unanticipated and unprepared for problem with negotiables. Seems like I fly 10 hours, spend $2k in MX over and over since stepping up to a 6 place. If I didn't need 5 seats, it'd sell it and buy an RV.
 
I think you aren't alone with your financial concerns. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger (or at least start the buying process) on a 310. With that said, 2 months in and for some crazy reason I need an overhaul, no I won't have 35K immediately liquidable (without stealing from retirement).

My plan is to put money into a bank account each month for the annual (which we all know can vary by many thousands depending), and have an engine account. I will divide the time remaining to TBO (obviously you can fly many hours either way before needing an overhaul) by the double overhaul cost and put that much into the account each time I fly. If I make it to TBO and need to overhaul, the money is there, if I make it past...who's ever had too much money.

My plan gives me a comfortable (my mind) cushion for maintenance issues. I will upgrade with cash as needed. Same for fuel and oil as I go along.

As mentioned, you can acquire/re-do your loan to absorb overhauls/upgrades if you need.

Do you have an engine or maintenance reserve fund set up or something similar?
 
Unit74 said:
I broke my plane today. Based on what I know, I'm expecting a $2k bill or worse. I was planning on having a GPSS installed soon and all I'm waiting on is one more part for the installation. That's on hold now. That got me thinking.....


How many pilots who own a plane, if something major went wrong, could they afford to fix it? I can take the small hits, but if I needed an overhaul today, I'd be screwed. I cannot afford a $40k bank dump. I'd have to steal it all from my retirement at I'm sure would be a throat lumping penalty.

I feel like I'm living a rich mans life on a Mac and cheese budget. It scares me sometimes.
Click to expand...
I don't own a plane but we do own a new motorhome, our 3rd since 1986. i was also worried about how to pay for unexpected repairs so each month we set aside $X into a maintenance and repair fund which is used for routine maintenance and unexpected repairs. if you haven't already you might want to develop a monthly budget that includes $X for M&R so when you get that unexpected bill it won't cause you any stress.
 
Unit74 said:
I broke my plane today. Based on what I know, I'm expecting a $2k bill or worse. I was planning on having a GPSS installed soon and all I'm waiting on is one more part for the installation. That's on hold now. That got me thinking.....


How many pilots who own a plane, if something major went wrong, could they afford to fix it? I can take the small hits, but if I needed an overhaul today, I'd be screwed. I cannot afford a $40k bank dump. I'd have to steal it all from my retirement at I'm sure would be a throat lumping penalty.

I feel like I'm living a rich mans life on a Mac and cheese budget. It scares me sometimes.
Click to expand...

If you need a overhaul call me... I have a good guy. He overhauled a 540 and a 320 for me. On the 172 he pulled the engine, did a complete major overhaul and put the engine back on. Total bill was $11,000. He is not a crook like the $40,000 shops. The 540 cost me 2 cylinders more.
I own 3 planes and lots of other stuff. If something breaks I go with the flow. Just sell a few more headsets :)
If I thought about stuff breaking and having to repair it I would drive myself crazy. So I don't think about it.
 
I don't think I am, however, I feel your pain...:yes: I have to keep reminding myself that I own the plane and can always get a lone if I don't want to pay for something major out of pocket. It's just the price we pay for the enjoyment we get...:happydance:
 
Timely thread. I literally just landed from having my first discrepancy with my gear in 3.5 years and 268 hours of owning the Arrow. Gear in transit light wouldn't go out, and was making it difficult to get the gear to cycle inflight. No issues getting the gear down via alternate extension (gravity baby!) and now in the shop it goes to chase the electrical squirrel. More than likely a flaky WoW microswitch in one of the gear legs. We'll find out next week. Not bad for three years of zero-discrepancy operation. An annoyance I'm willing to put up with for 25 extra knots from my old Warrior.

As to engine overhaul, I don't believe in them, so I don't worry about them :D. In all seriousness, Lycoming NA engines are simple, and I don't baby mine. They're very economical to run. The systems on my PA28R are relatively simple and cheap as well, which is nice. Not much different than I used to do with my Warrior II. I sincerely don't see where a -32 airframe is putting you out.

Where I would have differed from the way you went about it, is I wouldn't have messed with a turbo installation. That just adds added wear on cylinders and extra fuel use for cooling (aircraft turbo installations are crappy on that front, built on a time where people just threw cheap fuel at the problem). What broke in your plane that puts you at 2k out the gate?
 
I feel fortunate to have waited to buy an airplane (and glider) when I felt I was finally able to afford it. A 40K engine would be something I could do without borrowing.

That said, I debated between buying very affordable old 182 for cash or taking the cash & plopping it down on a more expensive airplane & financing the balance. I chose the older airplane without depleting all of my cash. I can't function when I'm stressed over finances. I've been there & will never be there again.

Each of us have to decide how much financial risk we'll take to own an airplane or even rent one for that matter.
 
I feel your pain. I just stepped up to a solely-owned twin from a very economical 1/5 partnership in a complex single (which I still have). I have a cooperative A&P who is willing to supervise me doing much of the work on the plane, so I'm counting on that (along with my willingness to spend a lot of energy sourcing "cheap" parts) to keep it as economical as possible. The engines do terrify me. Mine are $40k/side to overhaul, and parts aren't exactly plentiful (I need to start stockpiling spares, actually). But it's big, comfy and an absolute pleasure to fly. You only live once, right?
 
bradg33 said:
I feel your pain. I just stepped up to a solely-owned twin from a very economical 1/5 partnership in a complex single (which I still have). I have a cooperative A&P who is willing to supervise me doing much of the work on the plane, so I'm counting on that (along with my willingness to spend a lot of energy sourcing "cheap" parts) to keep it as economical as possible. The engines do terrify me. Mine are $40k/side to overhaul, and parts aren't exactly plentiful (I need to start stockpiling spares, actually). But it's big, comfy and an absolute pleasure to fly. You only live once, right?
Click to expand...

I am dealing with mine in a similar fashion.
What are you flying?

As for engines, especially a twin, I have noted that entire flying airframes with low-to-half-time engines are going for well under the price of overhauls. I still have years of time left on my IO-540s and they will likely go past TBO, but If I ever need engines I will probably buy another Aztec, swap the engines, keep the two best of the 4 props, sell my old cores & the other two props, and part out the rest starting with the avionics.

(Unless my businesses do well enough to convince the Finance Minister, Mrs. GRG55, to grant me budget authorization to trade up to a pressurized twin like a 414).
 
I've been fairly lucky. I did a similar move as you and went from a pa-28 180 to a fixed gear Saratoga. Definitely more money but I've been fortunate to not have anything too major break in the 2 years ownership. Most of my $ spent has been elective with engine monitor, garmin G5 addition, etc. my engine is TBO but I'm still going to keep flying it as it makes good power. I'm slowly saving up a little cash to OH when needed. If I have to borrow a little from a line of credit (short term) I'll do it.

Honestly though, as for your main question, yeah I mean this is a crazy expensive "hobby". I have no desire to justify it with anyone. Some people blow money on crack, gambling, mistresses, etc. I'll stick to my plane.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Timely thread. I literally just landed from having my first discrepancy with my gear in 3.5 years and 268 hours of owning the Arrow. Gear in transit light wouldn't go out, and was making it difficult to get the gear to cycle inflight. No issues getting the gear down via alternate extension (gravity baby!) and now in the shop it goes to chase the electrical squirrel. More than likely a flaky WoW microswitch in one of the gear legs. We'll find out next week. Not bad for three years of zero-discrepancy operation. An annoyance I'm willing to put up with for 25 extra knots from my old Warrior.

As to engine overhaul, I don't believe in them, so I don't worry about them :D. In all seriousness, Lycoming NA engines are simple, and I don't baby mine. They're very economical to run. The systems on my PA28R are relatively simple and cheap as well, which is nice. Not much different than I used to do with my Warrior II. I sincerely don't see where a -32 airframe is putting you out.

Where I would have differed from the way you went about it, is I wouldn't have messed with a turbo installation. That just adds added wear on cylinders and extra fuel use for cooling (aircraft turbo installations are crappy on that front, built on a time where people just threw cheap fuel at the problem). What broke in your plane that puts you at 2k out the gate?
Click to expand...

My mags **** the bed. It's the dual Bendix. $1500 for an overhauled unit plus removal/install and a sixer of craft brew for the MX. I call it invoice lubricant.

It's a factory TIO540-S1AD so no aftermarket boost.
 
bradg33 said:
I feel your pain. I just stepped up to a solely-owned twin from a very economical 1/5 partnership in a complex single (which I still have). I have a cooperative A&P who is willing to supervise me doing much of the work on the plane, so I'm counting on that (along with my willingness to spend a lot of energy sourcing "cheap" parts) to keep it as economical as possible. The engines do terrify me. Mine are $40k/side to overhaul, and parts aren't exactly plentiful (I need to start stockpiling spares, actually). But it's big, comfy and an absolute pleasure to fly. You only live once, right?
Click to expand...

how 'bout some pics or vids of this twin?
 
I fly well below my means. I originally looked at getting something like a Bo Deb 33 or Mooney. After considering the flying I would be doing (typically 200 nm or less) and the fact that I hope to retire in a few years, I wanted to have a plane that I could continue to afford in retirement. I have totally refurbished my Cherokee from top to bottom, including engine overhaul, now while I still have a good income in hopes that my retirement expenses will be relatively low.
 
Unit74 said:
My mags **** the bed. It's the dual Bendix. $1500 for an overhauled unit plus removal/install and a sixer of craft brew for the MX. I call it invoice lubricant.

It's a factory TIO540-S1AD so no aftermarket boost.
Click to expand...

Is that all?
I thought you pranged something when you posted "you" broke the plane. ;)

Mags are a wear item and one of the most common failures I've experienced on my planes. Most recent had 500 hr service kits put in the two mags on the LH engine. Approx 100 hrs later the LH mag (the expensive one with the starting points, of course) failed. Open circuit in a coil. Not repairable. Sheeit happens. :dunno:

You have a good, solid airplane. Mine is the same year. Old enough that there's always one thing or another that needs attention. The key is to stay on top of it, or it will cost you a lot more later if you let things build up.
 
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Unit74 said:
My mags **** the bed. It's the dual Bendix. $1500 for an overhauled unit plus removal/install and a sixer of craft brew for the MX. I call it invoice lubricant.

It's a factory TIO540-S1AD so no aftermarket boost.
Click to expand...

Aero Accessories near VNY.

http://aeroacc-vny.com

Seriously the only people I'd trust and super reasonable.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yeah mags are nothing. Replaced both of mine a couple years ago for about 2K also. Then Champion put out a AD for bad mags and replaced both free of charge. Wasn't long ago when they were half that price. Another reason why GA is dying. Costs are spiraling out of control.

Shouldn't have an unexpected overhaul without signs. Both my planes I've gotten overhauled and was prepared for both. Didn't have cash in reserve but I paid half in cash and the rest in payments. Both aircraft paid for so generally I don't fly beyond my means.
 
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Mags have 200 hours on them. Certainly didn't make OH.
 
pigpenracing said:
If you need a overhaul call me... I have a good guy. He overhauled a 540 and a 320 for me. On the 172 he pulled the engine, did a complete major overhaul and put the engine back on. Total bill was $11,000. He is not a crook like the $40,000 shops. The 540 cost me 2 cylinders more.
I own 3 planes and lots of other stuff. If something breaks I go with the flow. Just sell a few more headsets :)
If I thought about stuff breaking and having to repair it I would drive myself crazy. So I don't think about it.
Click to expand...


Don't jinx me..... I've got 600 more hours if I make TBO.
 
GRG55 said:
Photoshop.
Click to expand...

Great idea, but I know nothing about Photoshop and I'll have to get my daughter to help me, and she'll tell her mom, who will tell our son, who then will kick my ass. Aww hell, forget it, just forget it. :(
 
Having just been through the annual from hell, I can relate to OP's pain. While the actual cost of the annual won't send me to the poorhouse, force me to eat Mac n Cheese or Top Ramen for the next year, or delay my retirement date, it does push my limit in terms of what I am willing to spend on a hobby. Some hobbies are just not worth $100k (or more) an aviation is getting there quickly.
 
GRG55 said:
I am dealing with mine in a similar fashion.
What are you flying?

As for engines, especially a twin, I have noted that entire flying airframes with low-to-half-time engines are going for well under the price of overhauls. I still have years of time left on my IO-540s and they will likely go past TBO, but If I ever need engines I will probably buy another Aztec, swap the engines, keep the two best of the 4 props, sell my old cores & the other two props, and part out the rest starting with the avionics.

(Unless my businesses do well enough to convince the Finance Minister, Mrs. GRG55, to grant me budget authorization to trade up to a pressurized twin like a 414).
Click to expand...

I've got a Twin Bonanza. I've already got one spare engine sitting in my hangar; it'll need a little work before it could go on the plane, but far less than an overhaul.
 
bradg33 said:
I've got a Twin Bonanza. I've already got one spare engine sitting in my hangar; it'll need a little work before it could go on the plane, but far less than an overhaul.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:
Nice!!

But as eman posted earlier:
:needpics:
 
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