Do registrations Expire ?

Tom-D

Tom-D

Taxi to Parking
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
34,740
Display Name
Display name:
Tom-D
Status Valid
Manufacturer Name CESSNA Certificate Issue Date 12/03/1974
Model 182P Expiration Date 05/31/2019
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 51704170
MFR Year 1973 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A78878
Type Registration Individual Fractional Owner NO

The only registration I can find for the aircraft is dated 1974, is it still good?
 
Shouldn’t be. Registrations are renewable every 3 years
 
Nope. They have to be registered, and renewed every 3 years.

BUT it shows an expiration date of 5/31/19, so it should still be valid. I'd probably make the phone call.
 
Tom-D said:
Status Valid
Manufacturer Name CESSNA Certificate Issue Date 12/03/1974
Model 182P Expiration Date 05/31/2019
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code (base 8 / oct) 51704170
MFR Year 1973 Mode S Code (base 16 / hex) A78878
Type Registration Individual Fractional Owner NO

The only registration I can find for the aircraft is dated 1974, is it still good?
Click to expand...

You asked if the registration expires, yet you highlighted in red the expiration date? May 31 2019?

??????
 
Probably not the case, but are you by any chance confusing the airworthiness certificate with the registration? The airworthiness certificate will say 1974 and the registration certificate should say 2019. (There should be another one around somewhere that expires in 2016.)
 
Tom-D said:
The only registration I can find for the aircraft is dated 1974, is it still good?
Click to expand...
No for that piece of paper. But FAA record above shows it valid till 2019 so the current registration document is missing. And as stated above a copy is available. The "certificate issue date" you highlighted is for the Airworthiness Certificate and does not expire.
 
JScarry said:
Probably not the case, but are you by any chance confusing the airworthiness certificate with the registration? The airworthiness certificate will say 1974 and the registration certificate should say 2019. (There should be another one around somewhere that expires in 2016.)
Click to expand...

I do know the difference.
The AWC is dated 1973 because that is when the 182 was built. And yes, it is tattered and worn, we are having a new one issued.
 
Bell206 said:
No for that piece of paper. But FAA record above shows it valid till 2019 so the current registration document is missing. And as stated above a copy is available. The "certificate issue date" you highlighted is for the Airworthiness Certificate and does not expire.
Click to expand...
how could it be for the AWC, they can only be revoked, and the file says it does expire.

Besides, the AWC never expires, I'm reading one there is no expiration date.
 
dmspilot said:
You asked if the registration expires, yet you highlighted in red the expiration date? May 31 2019?

??????
Click to expand...
That is the confusing part. my paper says one thing the FAA's file says another.
 
Rules of Conduct said:
  • Participants shall not post messages containing personal contact information other than their own. This includes, but is not limited to, phone numbers, email addresses and mailing/physical addresses.
Click to expand...
A post that contained the owner's contact information, and one that quoted it, were deleted. We realize you can look it up yourself on the FAA site, but the ROC does not allow posting it here.
 
Last edited:
And the registration missing is in the owner’s area of responsibility, not the mechanic’s. Ask William Wooding about it. I assume you know the owner.
 
Tom-D said:
That is the confusing part. my paper says one thing the FAA's file says another.
Click to expand...
If your paper registration doesn't have an expiration date on it then it is a pre-2010 registration and is no longer valid.
If the FAA database shows a registration expiration date in 2019, then somewhere there is a valid paper registration certificate. But it's not the one you have in hand.
 
SkyDog58 said:
And the registration missing is in the owner’s area of responsibility, not the mechanic’s. Ask William Wooding about it. I assume you know the owner.
Click to expand...
When I am asked to get the aircraft ready to fly, I do the whole job.
 
Tom-D said:
When I am asked to get the aircraft ready to fly, I do the whole job.
Click to expand...

Still the registration is the owner’s responsibility and he most likely has the current one at his home or office if it’s not in the plane.
 
The "Certificate Issue Date" you have in 1974, is not the REGISTRATION but the Airworthiness Certificate.
Airworthiness Certificates never expire.
Registrations do after three years.
 
Nice technicality for you

An aircraft has to be on the FAA registry to hold a valid FAA airworthiness certificate. The registration numbers on both documents must match. Can't signoff an annual inspection as airworthy without those to documents being up to date and valid.
 
Way back when, aircraft airworthiness certificates did expire and part of the annual inspection was getting a new one. That changed a bit and now the annual inspection statement written in the logbooks every year by the IA holder is basically issuing a recurrent airworthiness certificate.

There are still countries that operate the old way, where both the airworthiness certificate and registrations expire.
 
The FAA website shows no airworthiness certificate for my J-3. I have the 1946 original from the factory. The FAA website isn't exactly 100% accurate.

However, if the FAA website shows a REGISTRATION is valid through sometime in 2019, the owner needs to request a replacement if he cannot locate the one the FAA sent which has 2019 expiration date noted.
 
bnt83 said:
Nice technicality for you

An aircraft has to be on the FAA registry to hold a valid FAA airworthiness certificate. The registration numbers on both documents must match. Can't signoff an annual inspection as airworthy without those to documents being up to date and valid.
Click to expand...

You may want to read the FAA Chief Counsel opinion on that.
 
flyingron said:
The "Certificate Issue Date" you have in 1974, is not the REGISTRATION but the Airworthiness Certificate.
Airworthiness Certificates never expire.
Registrations do after three years.
Click to expand...

Standard Aiworthiness Certificates do not expire. Many Special Aiworthiness Certificates do.
 
bnt83 said:
That changed a bit and now the annual inspection statement written in the logbooks every year by the IA holder is basically issuing a recurrent airworthiness certificate.
Click to expand...
I do not agree with that statement.

Registration of the aircraft is not a prerequisite to aircraft airworthiness. The aircraft registration requirements of 14 CFR part 47 do not mandate that the aircraft be in an airworthy condition at the time of registration.

I can register a piece of junk, Simply make out the application for registration pay the fee and send it to OKC. They do not care if it is in an airworthy condition.
 
Last edited:
SkyDog58 said:
Standard Aiworthiness Certificates do not expire. Many Special Aiworthiness Certificates do.
Click to expand...
That's true, But not What I am concerned with, Registration is what concerns me, Read your A&P certificate, we can only work on US registered aircraft, If it is not registered, legally we can't work on it.

I know the 182 is registered FAA.GOV told me so, It is legal for me to work on it, but we can't fly it until we have the most current paper on board. And we are working on finding that.
 
Tom-D said:
I do not agree with that statement.

Registration of the aircraft is not a prerequisite to aircraft airworthiness. The aircraft registration requirements of 14 CFR part 47 do not mandate that the aircraft be in an airworthy condition at the time of registration.

I can register a piece of junk, Simply make out the application for registration pay the fee and send it to OKC. They do not care if it is in an airworthy condition.
Click to expand...

That’s rich. Cutting and pasting verbiage from the CC opinion already referenced by me and acknowledged by @bnt83.
 
SkyDog58 said:
That’s rich. Cutting and pasting verbiage from the CC opinion already referenced by me and acknowledged by @bnt83.
Click to expand...
Did you have a copy rite on that. Or are you just put out because I used it too.
 
Think of it this way, E/AB builders must get their project registered prior to getting an N number and their AWC.
 
Tom-D said:
Think of it this way, E/AB builders must get their project registered prior to getting an N number and their AWC.
Click to expand...

Imports are the same.
  • Must have deregistration letter from country X
  • Letter goes with registration application to country Y
  • After registered in country Y and found to comply with country Y airworthiness regulations a new AWC can be issued.
 
bnt83 said:
Nice technicality for you

An aircraft has to be on the FAA registry to hold a valid FAA airworthiness certificate. The registration numbers on both documents must match. Can't signoff an annual inspection as airworthy without those to documents being up to date and valid.
Click to expand...
not true
Lets not be confused, the registration number is the N number.
An A&P-IA can sigh off the inspection with out these documents. it happens each time an annual is completed as part of the sale, and the aircraft can be flown on the pink copy of the Registration request.
 
Last edited:
Tom-D said:
"The registration numbers on both documents must match..." not true
Click to expand...
Correct. But you failed to mention that is valid only for 10 days after the issue date of a new registration number. At which time a replacement AWC must be obtained with the new N number in block 1.
 
Bell206 said:
Correct. But you failed to mention that is valid only for 10 days after the issue date of a new registration number. At which time a replacement AWC must be obtained with the new N number in block 1.
Click to expand...
This is true for the AWC any info that identifies the aircraft changes there must be a new AWC,
Seeing as the first block on a AWC is the N for the aircraft.
It is quite common to change the N :)

But the AWC's will remain as issued when the aircraft is sold, and a new registration is issued, giving the new owner's info.

Read block 6 of the AWC gives the rules of terms and conditions we are speaking of.
 
Last edited:
Tom-D said:
The AWC's will remain as issued when the aircraft is sold, and a new registration is issued, giving the new owner's info.

Read block 6 of the AWC gives the rules of terms and conditions we are speaking of.
Click to expand...

Don't quite follow what this comment has to do with the topic: "The registration numbers on both documents must match... not true"

FYI: while the stated 10 day period requiring the N numbers to match on both documents is found in the guidance listed in Block 6, most aircraft registration info is in Part 47, which is not in Block 6, and explains the process of changing an N number.;)
 
Tom-D said:
That's true, But not What I am concerned with, Registration is what concerns me, Read your A&P certificate, we can only work on US registered aircraft, If it is not registered, legally we can't work on it.
Click to expand...
On the contrary, you only need the FAA's permission to work on US registered aircraft.
 
Lindberg said:
On the contrary, you only need the FAA's permission to work on US registered aircraft.
Click to expand...
If you believe that see if you are legal to return a foreign aircraft to service.
 
Bell206 said:
Don't quite follow what this comment has to do with the topic: "The registration numbers on both documents must match... not true"

FYI: while the stated 10 day period requiring the N numbers to match on both documents is found in the guidance listed in Block 6, most aircraft registration info is in Part 47, which is not in Block 6, and explains the process of changing an N number.;)
Click to expand...
Again, read block 6 of the Airworthiness certificate. It does not expire, or have an expiration date.
When you change the N number the AWC simply no longer applies, because it is N number specific.
How to change the N number in part 47 has nothing to do with this conversation.
 
Tom-D said:
It does not expire, or have an expiration date.
Click to expand...
I believe I stated that back in Post #8 ??

Again, for a 2nd time, my comment was to the statement "the registration numbers on both documents (Reg/AWC) must match: Yes. Part 91.

For those who may be following: if the AWC, Aircraft Registration, and the aircraft itself do not have the same N number, then the aircraft can not be operated under Part 91. There is a 10 day grace period to update the AWC for those who change their registration number (N number) and remark their aircraft.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top