Do I keep going?

loch1957

loch1957

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James
I am sure I'm not the only one thats been here. After two years and 75 hours I still haven't been signed off. I'm good enough to solo any time I want but CFI doesn't think I cant pass checkride. Was there a point that you thought it was time to quit? Ten grand is a lot of money to see no real end. If I was that bad why heck does he let me fly solo. One my problems is theres no CFI here so I have to drive and that adds money to it. I knew it wasn't a cheap hobby when I started. I'm kinda disillusioned guys, help!!
 
The first thing you need is a heart to heart with your instructor about the specific problem and what you need to do to solve it. It may involve consulting another instructor -- sometimes that helps getting over a hump much better than you might expect.

I've seen people with a lot more hours than that get their ticket.
 
Sorry to hear about your situation. What does your CFI say about the "time to complete" estimate and is that affordable for you? What does your CFI say about the areas you need to work on and can you effectively bring yourself up to and above PTS standards. Finally, how often do you fly? If it's only a few times per month, then that poses an issue of retention from the prior lesson -- in effect, it's like each time you go fly you're starting a bit from "behind the eight ball." Good luck in your pursuit.......I'm sure if you can fly more frequently, things will improve quickly.
 
Flying more isnt an option. Its not from the money but more from logistics. I have drive hour and half just to get there. I know thats a hurdle when cant fly but once a week but best I can do.
 
loch1957 said:
Flying more isnt an option. Its not from the money but more from logistics. I have drive hour and half just to get there. I know thats a hurdle when cant fly but once a week but best I can do.
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Don't discount the possibility of getting a motel room for a week and flying every day. Motel 6 is peanuts compared to what you're paying for the airplane.

Once a week really isn't enough for a student pilot.
 
Wait...

Are you waiting on a checkride signoff or a solo endorsement?

At 75 hours, I would not be too concerned about needing more work before the checkride; if it's solo that is a different story.
 
loch1957 said:
Flying more isnt an option. Its not from the money but more from logistics. I have drive hour and half just to get there. I know thats a hurdle when cant fly but once a week but best I can do.
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And that might be part of the problem. The less you fly the slower you'll progress. If you can get a week or two off of work, find a campground or motel near the airport and fly every day during your "vacation", I'll bet you (and your CFI) will see a marked improvement in your skills!

But I agree with those who say to get an independent assessment of your current skills before taking any more radical steps. Not saying this describes your situation, but there ARE shady instructors out there who take advantage of students who aren't making progress and just string them along. And I'll also add that MAKG is right that there are many pilots out there who had a lot more hours at first solo or checkride than you have now. Though the reasons were different (largely FAA medical bureaucratic crap), I didn't solo until 95 hours and passed my checkride at 250.
 
I took 105 hours / over two years to get my private - that's a lot of time.

Some of it was because I had to take significant breaks along the way for work - 2 breaks, 4 months and 7 months. Some of it was because there were stretches where I couldn't fly regularly. And some of it was my CFI didn't adequately communicate what I needed to work on and just left me to flounder into it myself.

At 75 hours - yeah, I was getting a little frustrated. Eventually I got stubborn and just kept going, then I realized that it's all air time. I had signoffs to go fly solo in the practice area and at three different airports within about 25 minutes of home so I could get the feel of different runways. So I was flying anyway.

My case - it was all about two items - VOR under the hood and engine outs. I knew I wasn't sticking it right but I didn't know what I was doing wrong or why. It wasn't until I flew with someone else that I was directly told what I was doing wrong and (more importantly for me) how I needed to do steps differently to get to the good outcome. I'd estimate I spent an extra 15-25 hours because I didn't get the right feedback for me.

My recommendations
1) Find someplace closer. There has to be flight training closer to home.
2) Don't go into debt for it, but don't obsess about money already spent. Figure out how to get better value for your money in the future.
3) Get a new CFI that will help you understand the what, the why and the how.
4) Remember that you're flying - time in the air is time in the air. There's no schedule for finishing.
5) Ask what they think is holding you back. What do you need to do better and then go out and do a session of practice / feedback.

Here's an example of #5 for me - on engine out drills, I couldn't put the airplane in the right place at the right altitude, 1000' agl at the "numbers". I'd wind up high or low and on the off chance that I stumbled into being in the right spot, I'd mess up the glide to landing. I went out and practiced just turn rates and sink rates and getting good at judging how long it takes to descend. Once I was consistently getting the airplane into a good place downwind, then I would get nervous about coming up short, turn too tight, wind up high and couldn't get down right. So we went back to judging landing spot landings.

My point is - it's probably 2-5 little things that are holding you back and you don't know what they are. It would be something simple like you not showing confidence in what you're doing. It could be not maintaining altitude in steep turns or not being attentive to it during cruise. Maybe you just need some more consistent time wiggling the stick.

At 75 hours, I'm not concerned about you not being ready for a checkride, especially if you're only flying once a week. You need to fly more. Now if you haven't soloed yet, that's a different story...there's something more fundamental going on.
 
I would opine your instructor has found a cash cow and is milking it to death.
 
Flying once a week is not enough. I would attempt a week of dedicated flying before starting over with a new CFI.
 
The national average to get your ticket is 60 to 70 hours. You are at 75, I would not be too worried. I also find it amazing what CFI's look for to know you are ready. Much of it has to do with confidence. Another which my CFI pointed out to me was lightness on the controls, not seeming like I was fighting the plane.
 
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75 hours over two years? That's not a lot of flying -- not even once a week, when 2-3 times a week is more like what's need to make progress toward being ready to pass the test. I suspect your instructor's concern is that you're not flying often enough to maintain proficiency in all the areas/tasks for the PP PTS. But that's just a guess, so you really should have a more detailed discussion with him about the matter.
 
I had an "add-on" student that could not successfully complete a glider PTS maneuver twice in a row. He scheduled himself for a check ride and I said no. A few weeks later he scheduled again. The DPE and I talked it over and decided to go ahead. Sure enough, he had a few other minor issues on the ride, but totally failed the one PTS maneuver. Three instructors and 50 pattern flights and he still could not do it. He called us all bad instructors and quit flying.

I will agree with other posts, flying once every 2-3 weeks, you are not doing yourself any favors. You need to schedule twice a week, minimum, to build proficiency.
 
MarkZ said:
Flying once a week is not enough. I would attempt a week of dedicated flying before starting over with a new CFI.
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The three weeks before my checkride I crammed 3-4 lessons a week to finish up. I was fairly over prepared for it all. If you're able to take a week off and finish up I would defiantly do that... I might do that myself for my instrument rating.
 
I passed my checkride at 80 hrs and 10 months. To be honest I couldn't believe he was signing me off for the checkride. I didn't think I was ready. I was off on steep turns, was having a little trouble hitting the short field landings, etc. But he kept saying you're ready. My first landing attempt on my check ride I had to go around because I was to high and over shot the runway. Nailed everything after that. My CFI had more confidence in me than I had in myself. But he was right. I passed. If he says you're not ready I would ask in what areas. The days before my checkride I went up and practiced steep turns and short field landings over and over again. Because he told my those were my week points. Maybe take a staged checkride with another CFI and let him point out where you need work. Good luck! You have a lot invested. Don't give up yet!
 
I agree that flying more does help, but I passed at around 65 hours with really only flying once per week, and after an awful winter, where I was lucky to get up every other week.

For me my problem was soft field and short field landings. Granted on the actual check ride, I almost failed the engine out, which I had nailed every time I did it during training, my landings were fine. Go figure.
 
I agree with MAKG... I would schedule a week of flying and stay at a hotel and get it knocked out.... I sure as hell would not quit...
 
As others mentioned, 75 hours isn't that much, especially considering the frequency of your flying. My suggestion:

1) Pick up phone and call instructor. Have chat about your progress, what needs to be worked on, where you're meeting PTS, where you are not.
2) Take week off from work and fly once or twice a day. To maximize your flights, your instructor should be providing a solid preflight briefing and post flight briefing.

If instructor is having trouble with #1, you may want to consider flying with another instructor...if nothing else just to get a fair evaluation. Also, if the instructor schedule doesn't allow for #2, consider finishing up with an instructor who is.

I think you'll find with repeated flights that certain things will finally "click".
 
Norman said:
I would opine your instructor has found a cash cow and is milking it to death.
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I knew someone was going to say that.

While it's possible, there is no evidence here that it is in play.

Don't jump to conclusions and the solutions will come a whole lot easier.

75 hours is not at all out of bounds for a once a week flier, and age (if that's a factor here -- not said) can make it a lot worse.
 
Why doesn't your cfi think you are ready? What do you need to work on? Did your cfi actually tell you that he doesn't think you can pass? Or are you just filling in words for him?

Ask your cfi what specifically you need to work on, spend some time studying those topics, chair flying or if practical using a simulator. Then do what others have suggested. You have to get some concentrated flights in now to hammer those things out.
 
It may not be time to replace your primary CFI, but it is time to go for a flight with a different CFI. They can often see things and make new suggestions that may help.
 
I'm going to have to vote that you make the drive (or solo flight) sometime to find a different CFI and have him give you his opinion. A mock checkride doesnt take long.

BTW, I was a 78 pilot, the last handful of those ours was just waiting on the schedule to align, etc.
 
Have your CFI fly to you. Probably will add an hour per lesson, but gets you out of the car for 1.5hrs each way. I'd pay $130 to save 3 hours of driving.

Then you can get into a twice a week situation and finish it up.
 
loch1957 said:
I am sure I'm not the only one thats been here. After two years and 75 hours I still haven't been signed off. I'm good enough to solo any time I want but CFI doesn't think I cant pass checkride. Was there a point that you thought it was time to quit? Ten grand is a lot of money to see no real end. If I was that bad why heck does he let me fly solo. One my problems is theres no CFI here so I have to drive and that adds money to it. I knew it wasn't a cheap hobby when I started. I'm kinda disillusioned guys, help!!
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75 hrs in 2 years indicates to me a lack of commitment, regardless the reason. If you want the ticket, you need to commit the time and resources to it to get done. Either take a week off and go somewhere where you can fly hard and take the ride at the end of the week, or quit. At your rate of flying you will likely never reach the level of proficiency needed for a check ride.
 
Ask another CFI for a practice checkride. It's a good idea even if your CFI says you're good to go.
 
Take a phase check ,with another CFI,then schedule a hotel room,and the check ride,fly like crazy for the week of the check ride. If that doesn't work,you need to rethink your options.
 
Not wanting to pile it on but you need more continuity in your training and flying.

If you are having this much trouble finding time to train how will you find time to fly after you get your ticket?

I flew two to four hours a week. It worked!!
 
Henning said:
75 hrs in 2 years indicates to me a lack of commitment, regardless the reason. If you want the ticket, you need to commit the time and resources to it to get done. Either take a week off and go somewhere where you can fly hard and take the ride at the end of the week, or quit. At your rate of flying you will likely never reach the level of proficiency needed for a check ride.
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I guess Drotto's 60 hrs in 2 years was an anomaly?

I'd agree low frequency doesn't help, but it shouldn't disqualify.

I like the 'have cfi fly to you' idea. Pay for the hobbs/cfi time and get more flying time for yourself, sounds like a win-win. These are airplanes after all, not fixed to the ground. I don't know why this isn't done more. I haven't heard of anyone practicing this way. Maybe some cfi's could shed some light on why its not done often(or maybe it is and I just don't know it).
 
jimbilly said:
I guess Drotto's 60 hrs in 2 years was an anomaly?

I'd agree low frequency doesn't help, but it shouldn't disqualify.

I like the 'have cfi fly to you' idea. Pay for the hobbs/cfi time and get more flying time for yourself, sounds like a win-win. These are airplanes after all, not fixed to the ground. I don't know why this isn't done more. I haven't heard of anyone practicing this way. Maybe some cfi's could shed some light on why its not done often(or maybe it is and I just don't know it).
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I did that at first when living on Catalina. Instructor would fly from LGB, pick me up, we do a lesson on the way over town, do some ground, fly another lesson, I spend the night with a buddy, and reverse the process the next day on the way back. I paid about 40 extra minutes a week plane rental on top of 4-6 hrs of lesson time, and the CFIs didn't charge me for the ferry time. After a few weeks, I started getting rides back and forth in the right seat of the BE-18s with an MEI so I got some time in that as well.
 
Henning said:
I did that at first when living on Catalina. Instructor would fly from LGB, pick me up, we do a lesson on the way over town, do some ground, fly another lesson, I spend the night with a buddy, and reverse the process the next day on the way back. I paid about 40 extra minutes a week plane rental on top of 4-6 hrs of lesson time, and the CFIs didn't charge me for the ferry time. After a few weeks, I started getting rides back and forth in the right seat of the BE-18s with an MEI so I got some time in that as well.
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Nice, thats getting creative, too many people stuck in the box. :)
 
jimbilly said:
Nice, thats getting creative, too many people stuck in the box. :)
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I hated wasting 2 hours riding the boats back and forth (not to mention the ride in the winter really sucks) plus I could leave my car at LGB for free.
 
jimbilly said:
I guess Drotto's 60 hrs in 2 years was an anomaly?

I'd agree low frequency doesn't help, but it shouldn't disqualify.

I like the 'have cfi fly to you' idea. Pay for the hobbs/cfi time and get more flying time for yourself, sounds like a win-win. These are airplanes after all, not fixed to the ground. I don't know why this isn't done more. I haven't heard of anyone practicing this way. Maybe some cfi's could shed some light on why its not done often(or maybe it is and I just don't know it).
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To clarify, I am at 75 hours in about 20 months now. I got my ticket in just over 60 at 18 months. It was not for lack of commitment, but more for lack of time and bad weather. It got to the point went the girl doing the scheduling said she could predict bad weather based on the days I could fly. I was at about 55 hours and 15 months, and my CFI was just about to sign me off, in December 2014. But winter set in, and I went about 3 weeks with no flying. I was able to keep "current" by getting something in about every 2 weeks till April when the weather cleared and I finished up, by doing like 5 flights and the check ride in around 3 weeks. So training in the North East through 2 bad winters is not lack of commitment, but rather mother nature getting in the way.

Would I have like to be faster, without a question. Faster in theory is better. Are my skills not as good as I would like them yeah, but is that low time or slow training. I think it is just low time for me. Plus, I am a perfectionist. My CFI would give me a hard time about wanting to do certain things again. He even came right out and told me that I did not need him to go do steeps turns, slow flight, etc, because he did not want to waste my money. We were even talking buying planes recently, and the CFI said he would have no issue with partnering with me on one. I admit, I need more practice, but I am very cautious and cognizant of my personal limits at this time. I know those limits will change.
 
A lot of people are saying once a week is not enough.. I guess it could be true for some people but not for all. We all learn a bit different..
I am in NO WAY trying to sound cocky at all, but I flew once a week, sometimes I wouldn't be able to fly for two weeks.. I got my student certificate at 6.2hrs and I got my PPL at 42.2 hours, for a total of just shy of 6 months.

When I left the airport I didnt just pack up my flight bag and put it away until the next lesson.. I would bring my study material to work, gym (during cardio) and literally anywhere I went. I would study the books I got (Jeppesen) and online material EVERYDAY, I have Flight Simulator X with the Alabeo DA40 (my training airplane) with Yoke, throttle quadrant and some rudder pedals and to this day I use it every single day.
Dont just study during the 30 minute ground portion of your lesson, study ALL THE TIME!
I couldnt afford to fly much more than I did, so I was almost forced to try to get my PPL as close to 40hrs as possible.
I think you should find another CFI,It sometimes takes a new pair of eyes to see where your weak points are, maybe not even a total new CFI but at least someone else. Study study study and study some more! I think a flight simulator would help you a lot, seems like you have the knowledge, just need to apply it and repeat it until its 2nd nature.
I used to have "problems" with crossed control configuration, so I started practicing in Flight Simulator, my next lesson I applied what I had learned in the simulator and VIOLA! BEAUTIFUL approach/landing. That right there is when I realized the simulator wasnt just "ehh" but a real, and very efficient learning tool!!
-MDA40
 
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MarcoDA40 said:
A lot of people are saying once a week is not enough.. I guess it could be true for some people but not for all. We all learn a bit different..
I am in NO WAY trying to sound cocky at all, but I flew once a week, sometimes I wouldn't be able to fly for two weeks.. I got my student certificate at 6.2hrs and I got my PPL at 42.2 hours, for a total of just shy of 6 months.

When I left the airport I didnt just pack up my flight bag and put it away until the next lesson.. I would bring my study material to work, gym (during cardio) and literally anywhere I went. I would study the books I got (Jeppesen) and online material EVERYDAY, I have Flight Simulator X with the Alabeo DA40 (my training airplane) with Yoke, throttle quadrant and some rudder pedals and to this day I use it every single day.
Dont just study during the 30 minute ground portion of your lesson, study ALL THE TIME!
I couldnt afford to fly much more than I did, so I was almost forced to try to get my PPL as close to 40hrs as possible.
I think you should find another CFI, if youre here asking what you should do, I dont think your CFI is fully doing their job. He should tell you what to practice, where your strong points and weak points are, you should have a better overall picture of where you stand, and how much longer you have left, but from your description, sounds like your CFI just wants your money. I could be wrong.

-MDA40
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Not to sound cocky but I got my student cert at zero hrs... :wink2:

But seriously the advice about studying between lessons is very good and probably the best way to make this work for you without flying more than once a week.
 
oregonboy109 said:
Not to sound cocky but I got my student cert at zero hrs... :wink2:

But seriously the advice about studying between lessons is very good and probably the best way to make this work for you without flying more than once a week.
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I changed the last part of my post :)
 
Myself and Marco are proof that once per week can get you a PPL. Yes, more per week would have been better, and I believe I would have finished up 5 to 10 hours sooner. I would have liked to save the money. On the other hand, we get threads all the time about GA dieing, and then you come here and you get loads of people telling perspective students, don't even bother if you can't fly at least twice per week. Does that attitude not hurt GA? Should we not be encouraging more people to fly regardless of what road they take, and not judge on how long it takes them to get there?

To the op, you can do it. You have made decisions and sacrifices based on what your life could accommodate. I am sure there are 1000's of pilots that have taken more time, more hours, and have not been able to fly the magic number of times per week. In the end we have the same PPL.
 
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OP have you tried any of the flight sims to stay sharp in between?

They are no replacement for the real thing, but they help me on the instruments and navigation when I was getting back into flying after about a twenty year hiatus.
 
txflyer said:
OP have you tried any of the flight sims to stay sharp in between?

They are no replacement for the real thing, but they help me on the instruments and navigation when I was getting back into flying after about a twenty year hiatus.
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If that's the problem….

We haven't been told, but there is a lot more to flying than navigation, and it seems likely to be something else.

The worst part about flying infrequently is that the various sight pictures go away real fast when you're learning. The sim won't do anything for that at best, and might hurt (sight pictures are different).
 
I'll just reiterate what the far wiser than me folks have already stated.

One's learning curve does get much better once you fly more frequently and that is from personal experience. I tried doing the just-fly-every-once-in-a-while-method of flight training and it did not work for me. Once I began flying 2 and sometimes 3 times a week, it was like night and day.

Can it be done by flying less frequently? Probably but it does not seem to have worked for you any more than it did for me. My final advice would be listen to the advice of those like me who were not born with wings on their back (and admit it) and not to those few who seem to think they were.
 
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