DME, dump it or keep it

C

Clip4

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Cli4ord
If you were upgrading a panel and had a King Kx64, would you keep it or dump it?
 
Clip4 said:
If you were upgrading a panel and had a King Kx64, would you keep it or dump it?
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Cirrus does not equip any of their planes with DME unless a customer specifically asks for it and none do. And the only reason to have Nav radios is for ILS. And even those will be mostly gone in a decade or so replaced with LPV approaches.
 
I know a lot of people with waas units who only use it for enroute.
They don't feel it necessary to pay $600 a year for a subscription to fly gps based approaches.
You don't necessarily have to have an updated gps database to fly enroute or use it as a dme. 182rg I fly had a 750 and a dme and never use the dme. Load the ILS into the gps and it puts your dme distances on the screen for you
 
I've not had need to use my DME since I put the 480 in. It will be the first thing to go if I need the space in the panel.
 
Dump it for sure. I did that a few years ago when upgrading, and have never regretted or needed it. GPS/WAAS rocks, and nothing else is needed. If GPS goes down (as it has for me, in IMC), you'll have plenty of other options.
 
citizen5000 said:
ATC will give altitude and vectors in IMC if you lose GPS.
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Except in my case the entire (750) box gave up the ghost, both nav and comm. And I didn't remember the last frequency, but ATC found me on guard. :)
 
RotorDude said:
Except in my case the entire (750) box gave up the ghost, both nav and comm. And I didn't remember the last frequency, but ATC found me on guard. :)
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A backup handheld radio when flying into known IMC is definitely a must if you can lose everything in one device.
 
Dump it. I have DME that I haven't turned on once and never will. When my panel gets a full makeover it's going in the trash (or ebay if anyone still buys those things).

This from a guy that thought DME was an exciting piece of equipment when I started flying...that and Loran.
 
Why the heck would you dump something if it's installed and works? I've kept mine. Came in handy recently when I went into Toronto and didn't want to pay a bunch of money to change my gps database subscription to add Canada for one flight...


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If you need the space, dump it, if you don't use it now, dump it. I guess I'm saying to dump it as long as you doing panel work, I pulled the ADF out of my 182 and haven't missed it!
 
citizen5000 said:
A backup handheld radio when flying into known IMC is definitely a must if you can lose everything in one device.
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Absolutely. I actually carry two. And have a belly antenna to go with it.
 
N747JB said:
If you need the space, dump it, if you don't use it now, dump it. I guess I'm saying to dump it as long as you doing panel work, I pulled the ADF out of my 182 and haven't missed it!
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A DME isn't quite the antique an ADF is...


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If the DME is working then I would keep it. It is useful and still in some places a DME is required for certain approaches.
 
citizen5000 said:
Cirrus does not equip any of their planes with DME unless a customer specifically asks for it and none do. And the only reason to have Nav radios is for ILS. And even those will be mostly gone in a decade or so replaced with LPV approaches.
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Since when does everything get compared to a Cirrus?

As others said, if you've got the room than keep it.
 
A banana is to citrus
like a bonanza is to cirrus

or apples to oranges

Edit: man I have to get off the pain meds
 
If you only have one GPS and doing instrument approaches keep it.. Can be useful for approaches that require DME, you can put the overlay on the GPS and and use the DME to identify the stepdowns. At least 400 series GPS's I have been flying with the overlays don't identify all the step downs.

Brian
 
Timbeck2 said:
I just installed DME in my plane.

Flame on!!
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No flaming here...do you have two GPS's? If not, I'd keep DME. Since the OP said he was upgrading his panel I figured he would be installing or already have 2. Maybe not? With 2, I just don't personally ever use it.
 
DME has a nice clear display of the one number you're looking for.

A GPS has a cluttered display.

I would use a DME if I had one, even though I have a pair of Garmin GTN650 GPSs.
 
For a true IMC plane I believe in all the redundancy I can get. If it is working it costs you nothing to keep it and it adds more capability in the event that something happens to those expensive boxes you are putting in.

That being said I have a lowly 430W in my plane as well as a old working NARCO DME. I don't think I''ve ever used the DME for anything of any value in IMC....but someday....
 
I understand why someone would want two 430's or similar, but two gtn's I would find very little to no use for. At best it is redundancy, but if they both have the same source of power I'm not really sure how useful that is.
A lot of people use the gps incorrectly when using it in lieu of dme. They have this idea that they have to type in the fix like it is direct to and only have that number on the screen. That is WRONG. Load the approach, it tells you when you cross each waypoint. Gps says you are going to cross xxxxx in .5 miles. And as soon as you cross it , tells you when you are crossing the next. No dialing, no flipping, no switching between a gps screen and a flight plan screen just flying. If it doesn't seem that easy, you are doing it wrong.
 
unsafervguy said:
because citizen5000 thinks that cirrus is gods gift to aviation and all other airplanes are inferior to to it.
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Whether that's true or not, it doesn't refute his point. Cirrus planes are undeniably capable IFR platforms and they are undeniably very popular in the new single-engine airplane market. They are therefore a useful metric of what that market wants in terms of avionics. It's like asking whether people are buying the optional CD changer in a new Chevrolet. It's not a question of whether Chevrolet is better than Ford, but a question of what people want in a new vehicle and using a relatively broad market segment as a substitute for a poll of the marketplace. And the answer is pretty clear: The market in general does not value DME enough to pay for it in new planes.

That being said, I join the chorus saying to keep it if you have it and don't need the space in your panel. GPS outages are uncommon but they do happen and having an additional tool to pinpoint your location and to fly an instrument approach that does not rely on GPS gives you an added value at no added cost.
 
Putting a bunch of glass in my Cherokee is like putting a five dollar shine on a two dollar shoe.

No offense to the shoe...its a good shoe.
 
iamtheari said:
Whether that's true or not, it doesn't refute his point. Cirrus planes are undeniably capable IFR platforms and they are undeniably very popular in the new single-engine airplane market. They are therefore a useful metric of what that market wants in terms of avionics. It's like asking whether people are buying the optional CD changer in a new Chevrolet. It's not a question of whether Chevrolet is better than Ford, but a question of what people want in a new vehicle and using a relatively broad market segment as a substitute for a poll of the marketplace. And the answer is pretty clear: The market in general does not value DME enough to pay for it in new planes.

That being said, I join the chorus saying to keep it if you have it and don't need the space in your panel. GPS outages are uncommon but they do happen and having an additional tool to pinpoint your location and to fly an instrument approach that does not rely on GPS gives you an added value at no added cost.
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"The RV has a built-in stove and sink so we can cook while we're traveling down the interstate."

--"You know Cirrus doesn't equip any of their airplanes with a stove and sink so having that in an RV is useless."--

:dunno:
 
Ryanb said:
"The RV came equipped with a stove and sink so we can cook while we're traveling down the interstate."

--"You know Cirrus doesn't ship any of their airplanes with a stove and sink so having that in an RV is useless."--

:dunno:
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I think you missed my analogy, and that's okay. I'm not particularly good at analogies. But I think the more critical question is who built an RV with a stove and a sink. I assume it's an RV-10 but is there still room for four seats with all the kitchen gear? How does that affect the useful load?
 
Ryanb said:
"The RV has a built-in stove and sink so we can cook while we're traveling down the interstate."

--"You know Cirrus doesn't equip any of their airplanes with a stove and sink so having that in an RV is useless."--

:dunno:
Click to expand...

Ya but...does the RV have the optional CD changer? Inquiring minds want to know. :D:rolleyes:
 
unsafervguy said:
because citizen5000 thinks that cirrus is gods gift to aviation and all other airplanes are inferior to to it.
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Still been unable to get an answer to whether he owns one.

Kinda rude, dontcha think?

Edited to add: OOPS. His profile says female. Sorry. Possibly have him confused with Citizen500, who was banned.
 
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iamtheari said:
I think you missed my analogy, and that's okay. I'm not particularly good at analogies. But I think the more critical question is who built an RV with a stove and a sink. I assume it's an RV-10 but is there still room for four seats with all the kitchen gear? How does that affect the useful load?
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I think you missed my analogy, the RV was referring to a motorcoach, hence the, "traveling down the interstate" not a Vans RV as those don't travel down the highway, at least I hope not. I just found it humorous how the original post in discussion had nothing to do with a Cirrus, but somehow it became the focus point as if everything gets compared to a Cirrus. LOL

Even though they do set the benchmark for many things IMHO. :)
 
Ryanb said:
I think you missed my analogy, the RV was referring to a motorcoach, hence the, "traveling down the interstate" not a Vans RV as those don't travel down the highway, at least I hope not. I just found it humorous how the original post in discussion had nothing to do with a Cirrus, but somehow it became the focus point as if everything gets compared to a Cirrus. LOL

Even though they do set the benchmark for many things IMHO. :)
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I figured you just meant a Van's RV landing on the interstate because of the kitchen fire. I guess I'll have to read up on this other kind of RV you're talking about. Never heard of 'em. ;)

What percentage of POA discussions end up digressing into Cirrus flamewars, anyhow? It must be close to 70%, leaving some room for ATITAPA arguments. (Not counting those that BEGIN with a Cirrus that caught on fire, of course!)
 
iamtheari said:
Whether that's true or not, it doesn't refute his point. Cirrus planes are undeniably capable IFR platforms and they are undeniably very popular in the new single-engine airplane market. They are therefore a useful metric of what that market wants in terms of avionics. It's like asking whether people are buying the optional CD changer in a new Chevrolet. It's not a question of whether Chevrolet is better than Ford, but a question of what people want in a new vehicle and using a relatively broad market segment as a substitute for a poll of the marketplace. And the answer is pretty clear: The market in general does not value DME enough to pay for it in new planes.

That being said, I join the chorus saying to keep it if you have it and don't need the space in your panel. GPS outages are uncommon but they do happen and having an additional tool to pinpoint your location and to fly an instrument approach that does not rely on GPS gives you an added value at no added cost.
Click to expand...
True but only to a point. I have not seen the option sheet for a cirrus, but what is the cost to add dme? If they want 10 amus to add it I can see why no one would add it, but for say 3 amus plenty might. So I agree, unless you have to have the real estate, keep it.
 
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