DIY Oxygen setup questions

G-Man

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AirmanG
I'm researching building my own oxygen setup to support 1-2 people to 15,000 MSL max, probably 12,000. Some good info on this site, but I have specific questions.

A local Craigslist ad is selling this:
https://www.specialtymedicalsupply....lumen-oxygen-conserving-device-hcs02cons.html
with two tanks for $150. (Tank size unknown, maybe ~2 feet long?)

Is a DIY oxygen system wise?
Will this work for flying?
Is this a good deal?

What else would I need?
Cannula recommendations?
Thanks...
 
18 pages of opinions and ideas.

I have an M22 / Jumbo D tank filled with welding O2 with a pediatric valve on top, two non-aviation conserving cannulas, and a simple pulse oximeter, all hardware from eBay and CL for about $80 total. Works great for your intended mission.
 
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/renting-bottled-oxygen.87966/#post-1950076

DIY oxygen system has worked just fine for me and many others for years. Educate yourself on oxygen safety - clean, no petroleum, heat transfer when filling, opening valves slowly, etc.
Cheap cannulas work fine, some like the bag style which may offer slightly more oxygen reserve to take in during inspiration; I like the pulse regulators which give a pulse of oxygen during inspiration to conserve your supply.

I am not familiar with the linked regulator but it looks like it might work well for you. Look at the size of the cylinders and where you plan to put them, weight, age, time since last hydrotest, etc.
 
On a GA aircraft, when you install an oxygen system, do they always use bottles, or does a compressor system of some sort get installed?
 
Where are you going to get it filled? Most pilots get their tank filled at airports that have that service. A fillup usually costs the same no matter how big the tank is (20 to 50 dollars). I would get at least a 24 cu ft tank. I think aluminum tanks are worth the extra cost. They are lighter and arent such a projectile. There are two valve systems. CGA 870 and CGA 540. The CGA 540 (which is the welding style valve) is the most common one that the aviation fill services have fittings for. Some of them support the CGA 870 (which is the medical fill valve). I think the CGA 540 is the one to have because Ive never been to a fill station at an airport that didnt have a fitting to fill that valve. But some pilots do fine because they fill from a station that has the 870 valve. Adapters to go back and forth do exist.

http://www.ozoneservices.com/products/OLO/images/tank/02-b.jpg

The decision points are size of tank, aluminum or steel tank, which regulator.
 
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Bottles is all I have seen used. I have heard of guys looking into oxygen concentrators, but never seen it; not sure why.

I fill mine at home. I have a couple large cylinders and a transfill adapter. It is virtually free to do so once setup with the equipment, tanks, etc.
 
The biggest problem with adapting most medical regulators is that they are wasteful. While Oxygen is cheap, you don't want the bottle to run dry while you're relying on it for a flight. With one of the Nelson (Preciseflite) or MountainHigh demand regulators, you can stretch your bottle a good long time. There's nothing magic about the bottle itself and even in most cases the first stage regulator. Just make sure it's clean (and if you buy one used, that you it's been hydro'd recently).
 
Interesting they use bottles. Is it actual oxygen, or just breathing air?

I ask because we fill our bottles at the fire station for ourselves, as well as scuba divers when they ask. We do not charge. Although the request for scuba air isn't that common around here. Sometimes someone will stop in, but not very often.

Our compressors do not pump oxygen, they only pump breathing air. So if it's oxygen you need, can't do it at the fire station, but if breathing air is all you need, your local fire department probably fills for free.
 
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pm me I have a fair assortment of extra aviation oxygen equipment I would be willing to sell. I know I have at least one or two regulators, I think I have a couple flow meters. You will probably need to get a cannula or two. I don't have any bottles.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Lots of great info here - thank you, and special thanks to Forane and Catmandu.

Excellent info in that Vans thread, including these:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=28412&highlight=diy+oxygen&page=11 - post 109
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=28412&highlight=diy+oxygen&page=9 - post 87

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of the different tank yokes - CGA540 versus CGA870 ?

Demand regulators seems the way to go. Any good sources?


mtn High is pretty much the go-to pulse demand manufacturer.
 
Our compressors do not pump oxygen, they only pump breathing air. So if it's oxygen you need, can't do it at the fire station, but if breathing air is all you need, your local fire department probably fills for free.

Back when I was in the fire service, we indeed had two cascades. One had our breathing air for fires and indeed was just compressed air (we didn't have the compressor, the county sent a truck around to refill our cascade periodically). The other was indeed pure oxygen, which we used to refill the bottles on the ambulance. The bottles from that cascade were just swapped out when they got low via a contract with Baltimore Oxygen Supply.
 
Lots of great info here - thank you, and special thanks to Forane and Catmandu.

Excellent info in that Vans thread, including these:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=28412&highlight=diy+oxygen&page=11 - post 109
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=28412&highlight=diy+oxygen&page=9 - post 87

Any thoughts on the pros and cons of the different tank yokes - CGA540 versus CGA870 ?

Demand regulators seems the way to go. Any good sources?

CGA 540 fitting is a nipple and nut configuration for cylinders larger than an E size (i.e. M60, MM H, J, K & T).
CGA 870 is a fitting for oxygen only and is used for E cylinders and smaller.
Decide what size tank you plan to use and go from there. I doubt you will want to carry a cylinder larger than an E size in the plane. This means you will use what I used:
1-2 small o2 tanks for the plane (CGA870).
1-2 330 cu ft cylinders (CGA540) to use as supply to refill the small plane tanks.
a transfill adapter (CGA540 TO CGA870).
a couple regulators (CGA870) - i like the pulse 5 regulators (around $50 on ebay)
a couple nasal cannulas.

The CGA540 is the one typical on welding oxy bottles.
The CGA870 fits the small oxygen tanks which I carry in the plane.

Regulators:
EASY PULSE 5 6 OXYGEN REGULATOR http://r.ebay.com/JeRduV
Easy Pulse 5 Oxygen regulator used only a few times http://r.ebay.com/OUupNN

Transfill adapter:
Oxygen Transfill Transfiller Adaptor CGA540 CGA870 Veterinarian Aviation http://r.ebay.com/QaQPzz
 
Again, thanks everyone! I met the guy this morning. Got a steel tank and an aluminum tank - I think they are E tanks - 4.3x25.5 inches. The Aluminum one is very light so might be empty. The steel one is much heavier - either (more) full or just steel vs. aluminum. Both are CGA870.

Looks like the aluminum is stamped 09 03 and steel 05 55 for manufacture/test dates, but both are hard to read. Yeah, seems worth hydrotesting!

Got an old regulator I can't find on Google marked Hudson OT-306-B. Probably not worth using. Seems to be Page 5 of this:
http://www.mercurymed.com/catalogs/BDR_Regulators.pdf

The big score is a Medline EconO2Mizer PN HCSO2CONS -
https://www.amazon.com/Medline-Industries-HCSO2CONS-Economizer-Conserving/dp/B000TQK2SU
http://respiratory.healthcaresupplypros.com/hcso2cons
This seems to be a pneumatic demand regulator? Anyone know details?

I think all I need now is a conserving cannula, right? Recommendations?
Other thoughts and comments?
Thanks again, everyone.
 
Back when I was in the fire service, we indeed had two cascades. One had our breathing air for fires and indeed was just compressed air (we didn't have the compressor, the county sent a truck around to refill our cascade periodically). The other was indeed pure oxygen, which we used to refill the bottles on the ambulance. The bottles from that cascade were just swapped out when they got low via a contract with Baltimore Oxygen Supply.

Very similar scenario now. We have our compressor at the station, and a rescue truck that has a cascade system on it. That is all for our breathing air. We have a few small oxy bottles for medical calls. If we use up ours, we swap with them for a full bottle, usually off an ambulance. Ours don't get used that often though. Most EMS calls are to assist EMS, and they usually beat us to the scene anyway.
 
We had 5 full size cylinders in the oxygen cascade. We had an ALS ambulance. The ambulance had a full size cylinder plumbed in for on board stuff. We had a few small cylinders that we used portably. Then there was a midsize cylinder we called the "thumper bottle" which we used to power the thumper (a mechaical cpr machine that use d the O2 both feed the patient and to work the piston that did the CPR).
 
We had 5 full size cylinders in the oxygen cascade. We had an ALS ambulance. The ambulance had a full size cylinder plumbed in for on board stuff. We had a few small cylinders that we used portably. Then there was a midsize cylinder we called the "thumper bottle" which we used to power the thumper (a mechaical cpr machine that use d the O2 both feed the patient and to work the piston that did the CPR).
Thats very cool! Will have to Google that ;)
 
Again, thanks everyone! I met the guy this morning. Got a steel tank and an aluminum tank - I think they are E tanks - 4.3x25.5 inches. The Aluminum one is very light so might be empty. The steel one is much heavier - either (more) full or just steel vs. aluminum. Both are CGA870.

Looks like the aluminum is stamped 09 03 and steel 05 55 for manufacture/test dates, but both are hard to read. Yeah, seems worth hydrotesting!

Got an old regulator I can't find on Google marked Hudson OT-306-B. Probably not worth using. Seems to be Page 5 of this:
http://www.mercurymed.com/catalogs/BDR_Regulators.pdf

The big score is a Medline EconO2Mizer PN HCSO2CONS -
https://www.amazon.com/Medline-Industries-HCSO2CONS-Economizer-Conserving/dp/B000TQK2SU
http://respiratory.healthcaresupplypros.com/hcso2cons
This seems to be a pneumatic demand regulator? Anyone know details?

I think all I need now is a conserving cannula, right? Recommendations?
Other thoughts and comments?
Thanks again, everyone.
I don't know anything about the regulator you linked but generally demand regulators won't work with conserving cannuals. Those regulators need to sense the drop in nasal pressure during inhalation and the recycling chamber of a conserving cannula will diminish that to almost nothing.

In any case there wouldn't be any advantage to a conserving cannula anyway with a demand regulator.
 
Right, the demand regulators use their own canula that has two tubes...one for the inspiration sense and the other to deliver the O2. They do not have (nor need) a reservoir on the tubing as they don't flow when you're not inspiring, so they don't need to accumulate it there.
 
Right, the demand regulators use their own canula that has two tubes...one for the inspiration sense and the other to deliver the O2. They do not have (nor need) a reservoir on the tubing as they don't flow when you're not inspiring, so they don't need to accumulate it there.
My Mountain High O2D2 senses via the same tube as it delivers oxygen. What regulators use two tubes with a canula? The only other one I've seen is made by Precise Flight and I think it also used only one tube.
 
Interesting they use bottles. Is it actual oxygen, or just breathing air?

I ask because we fill our bottles at the fire station for ourselves, as well as scuba divers when they ask. We do not charge. Although the request for scuba air isn't that common around here. Sometimes someone will stop in, but not very often.

Our compressors do not pump oxygen, they only pump breathing air. So if it's oxygen you need, can't do it at the fire station, but if breathing air is all you need, your local fire department probably fills for free.

I am pretty sure if you are breathing only oxygen while diving you are going to have a bad day.....as in dead.
 
My Mountain High O2D2 senses via the same tube as it delivers oxygen. What regulators use two tubes with a canula? The only other one I've seen is made by Precise Flight and I think it also used only one tube.
I have the precise flight and it definitely has two tubes. The regulator has three ports, one for the bottle, one marked delivery and the other is the sense line.

You are right the Mountain High only uses one tube. Still, the conserving cannula is unnecessary with their system. The reservoir should not fill as it only flows during inspiration.
 
I'm posting the link below just to show that medical concentrators are a viable, clever (and ridiculously expensive) method of maintaining O2 saturation when flying high. I'm not posting it because I think it's a good idea to buy a unit from this particular source. This industrious seller simply takes the standard medical unit and glues the brand "Aviator" on it and magically it's now an aviation component instead of a medical unit.

http://www.inogenaviator.com/products.html

There are several - many in fact - manufacturers of medical oxygen concentrators. The field narrows when it comes to light, portable, 12-volt models, but there's still quite a few companies to choose from. Based upon a quick look around, Inogen seems to still be the market leader in sales and innovation. Their G1 is less than three pounds and is seven inches by six by three or so wide and is good to 15K based upon reviews I've read several years ago. Their G4 (larger, but still small compared to standard-sized medical oxygen concentrators) is claimed to be good to 18K. I don't recall flow rates at those altitudes but I do recall the claims are that they'll keep saturation above 95%.

Downsides are cost and having only a single lumen. My plane is single-place so for those with a single-seater a single lumen is plenty. Cost can be gotten around by keeping a sharp eye out on Craigslist and other venues. Paid for originally by insurance, survivors often have no idea how much these things cost so with some luck one can find one of these treasures amidst all the other medical leftovers that survivors dump once the principal has passed.

I just came across an old posting by Dr. Bruce on the subject of these things and his report was that the one he was trying out (he didn't say which one it was) worked well at 12 but was useless at 15. Performance does vary a lot among the different models. The trend however is towards lighter, smaller and ever more capable machines. As we baby-boomers slide downhill, competition is fierce among the circling carrion feeders.

An Inogen G1 (unless there's something new out there I don't know about yet) would be absolutely wonderful to have in the plane, wired into the ship's power and controlled with a simple off/on switch on the panel. However . . . my current set-up works exceedingly well so unless I actually do stumble across one on CL for $150 I'll stick with my aluminum E tank (24 cu.ft.) with Devilbiss PD-1000

(https://goo.gl/6M9tB6)

and Osysaver cannula (its a single line and works fine with the pulse-demand regulator even though theory says it shouldn't because of it's reservoir). The demand regulator is absolutely what makes it possible to turn on the O2 before takeoff, cross the country and return to California without turning it off (except overnighting of course) . . . and still have O2 left in the tank when I get home. Several companies besides Devilbiss make these demand regulators for medical use. And for about twenty times as much money, they can be had from Mountain High, Precise Flight & other aviation sources. Tank re-fills are at dive shops for about $30. Tank needs re-certification every three years (or is it five?). The dive shop I use has the certification to do the tank certs so it all works exceedingly well. However . . . if I came across a G1 for $150 or anywhere near that number . . . I wouldn't hesitate for a second. Its just too elegant to never have to get the tank filled anymore.
 
I'm posting the link below just to show that medical concentrators are a viable, clever (and ridiculously expensive) method of maintaining O2 saturation when flying high. I'm not posting it because I think it's a good idea to buy a unit from this particular source. This industrious seller simply takes the standard medical unit and glues the brand "Aviator" on it and magically it's now an aviation component instead of a medical unit.

http://www.inogenaviator.com/products.html

There are several - many in fact - manufacturers of medical oxygen concentrators. The field narrows when it comes to light, portable, 12-volt models, but there's still quite a few companies to choose from. Based upon a quick look around, Inogen seems to still be the market leader in sales and innovation. Their G1 is less than three pounds and is seven inches by six by three or so wide and is good to 15K based upon reviews I've read several years ago. Their G4 (larger, but still small compared to standard-sized medical oxygen concentrators) is claimed to be good to 18K. I don't recall flow rates at those altitudes but I do recall the claims are that they'll keep saturation above 95%.

Downsides are cost and having only a single lumen. My plane is single-place so for those with a single-seater a single lumen is plenty. Cost can be gotten around by keeping a sharp eye out on Craigslist and other venues. Paid for originally by insurance, survivors often have no idea how much these things cost so with some luck one can find one of these treasures amidst all the other medical leftovers that survivors dump once the principal has passed.

I just came across an old posting by Dr. Bruce on the subject of these things and his report was that the one he was trying out (he didn't say which one it was) worked well at 12 but was useless at 15. Performance does vary a lot among the different models. The trend however is towards lighter, smaller and ever more capable machines. As we baby-boomers slide downhill, competition is fierce among the circling carrion feeders.

An Inogen G1 (unless there's something new out there I don't know about yet) would be absolutely wonderful to have in the plane, wired into the ship's power and controlled with a simple off/on switch on the panel. However . . . my current set-up works exceedingly well so unless I actually do stumble across one on CL for $150 I'll stick with my aluminum E tank (24 cu.ft.) with Devilbiss PD-1000

(https://goo.gl/6M9tB6)

and Osysaver cannula (its a single line and works fine with the pulse-demand regulator even though theory says it shouldn't because of it's reservoir). The demand regulator is absolutely what makes it possible to turn on the O2 before takeoff, cross the country and return to California without turning it off (except overnighting of course) . . . and still have O2 left in the tank when I get home. Several companies besides Devilbiss make these demand regulators for medical use. And for about twenty times as much money, they can be had from Mountain High, Precise Flight & other aviation sources. Tank re-fills are at dive shops for about $30. Tank needs re-certification every three years (or is it five?). The dive shop I use has the certification to do the tank certs so it all works exceedingly well. However . . . if I came across a G1 for $150 or anywhere near that number . . . I wouldn't hesitate for a second. Its just too elegant to never have to get the tank filled anymore.

Do you need one of these Devilbiss demand regulators per person, or can one on the supply bottle feed multiple Oxysaver cannula?
 
Do you need one of these Devilbiss demand regulators per person, or can one on the supply bottle feed multiple Oxysaver cannula?
The Medical demand regulators, like the oxygen concentrators, only have one lumen (outlet). It might be worth a try to connect two cannulas to the one outlet - might work, dunno.
 
The Medical demand regulators, like the oxygen concentrators, only have one lumen (outlet). It might be worth a try to connect two cannulas to the one outlet - might work, dunno.

Would possibly affect triggering, as the device senses the drop in pressure caused by inhalation to trigger flow. Having a side port to a second cannula could mess with that.

IF triggered, both users would be triggering it, both would be getting half of the flow, whether needed for a breath that instant or not, and both aviators are highly unlikely to be breathing in sync. With a concentrator, no big deal. With a tank, would contribute to shorter tank life with a high likelyhood of decreased duration/performance.
 
Just curious why you don't buy a purpose-made aviation oxygen set up? The cost is not prohibitive.

We have had this Aerox set up in our RV-8A for three years: https://aerox.com/product/aerox-portable-oxygen-system-2-user-c-system-9-cu-ft

The cost was reasonable, the system has been 100% reliable, and the tank is so small that we have NEVER been charged to fill it! The guys at the airport just chuckle when they see it -- but we are able to fly all the way to Oshkosh on O2, if needed, on one tank. (We bought a second tank, to keep in rotation.)

Flying up in the lower flight levels can be very efficient, when the winds are right. O2 gives you the flexibility to do so.

Of course, you look like a complete dork doing it... ;)
11953172_896375617065000_4842804915883694797_n.jpg
 
> "With a concentrator, no big deal. With a tank, would contribute to shorter tank life with a high likelyhood of decreased duration/performance."

Actually, with a concentrator it would be a consideration since at altitude they are working at their outer limits. These small concentrators are unlikely to provide sufficient flow for two people. Re tank usage, with two people drawing upon them, it's going to consume twice the O2 in any case. The demand regulators have, along with an adjustable "pulse dose", a "CF" position which puts it on a par with the standard old aviation regulators which were and in many cases still are, continuous flow regulators (at least the older ones). So . . . I think a Y-fitting to connect two cannulas to the regulator's one lumen, would work fine if the regulator was set on CF. When flying solo, it could be set on one of the pulse dose settings - so, the best of both worlds depending on whether it's one up or two. My experience has been that Oxymizer cannulas work with demand regulators so that would help if two are drawing on one tank using these bladder-type cannulas.
 
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