Disintermediation of FSS Briefers

LDJones

LDJones

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Jonesy
I got to thinking today about how EFB products like ForeFlight have impacted FSS weather briefers. For 30+ years I spoke to an FSS briefer before virtually all cross-country flights. Even if I had used DUAT(S) to gather preliminary info, I'd still call to see if there was something I missed and to file my flight plan.

Since acquiring ForeFlight three years ago, I've maybe spoken to a flight briefer twice in several hundred flights. I find the information presented in the EFB easier to digest graphically, and the drill-down details are all there when desired, plus the filing process is so easy I virtually never feel the need to call FSS.

I'm curious if others have experienced a similar change? I also wonder to what extend it has impacted FSS call volume, which would ultimately impact staffing levels. Does the FAA publish this kind of data? I'd be curious to see the non-121 flight plan filing data vs. FSS call volumes over the last ten years to see if there's a correlation.
 
WXBRIEF is not called much now with all the online weather products. The ony real reason to do it is to make sure the Fllight Plan is filed.
 
CTLSi said:
WXBRIEF is not called much now with all the online weather products. The ony real reason to do it is to make sure the Fllight Plan is filed.
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I get pop-ups on my iPad and e-mails on my phone confirming the filing, so have never felt the need to call for even that reason.
 
We call them for one reason only: Pop up TFRs. I want to be on record for checking that, before launching. (Admittedly, this is a throw-back to our Iowa days, when two-bit politicians were everywhere, every four years, often unannounced...)

Other than that, we now have access to equal or better weather information than they do.
 
Jonsey,

You have to go to a thee-sauris to find that three dollar word? :D

BTW: misspelling intentional.
 
Norman said:
Jonsey,

You have to go to a thee-sauris to find that three dollar word? :D

BTW: misspelling intentional.
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Nah....I've been in the technology world too long and worked with a lot of disruptive technologies....plus had a Sr. VP who made us read all those techno-change-related books!

It's also the most apropos word to use! :wink2:
 
CTLSi said:
WXBRIEF is not called much now with all the online weather products. The ony real reason to do it is to make sure the Fllight Plan is filed.
Click to expand...

Got a reference to back that up?

I still call regularly and it's not for the reason you've stated.
 
Paulie said:
Since it's been privatized weather briefings suck.
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Funny, almost everyone I talk to agrees that weather briefings improved immensely after LockMart took over. Not only do they answer the phone more quickly, the briefers actually have personality and, more often than not, piloting experience.

Sadly (for them), they're just rarely necessary nowadays, thanks to the technology we all carry in our pockets. FSS has become modern-day icemen -- and even the best ice delivery companies failed, after refrigeration became affordable.
 
CTLSi said:
WXBRIEF is not called much now with all the online weather products. The ony real reason to do it is to make sure the Fllight Plan is filed.
Click to expand...


Just the opposite. There is a much higher chance of a dropped flight plan through LockheedMartin. Any human intervention causes error.
 
kgruber said:
Just the opposite. There is a much higher chance of a dropped flight plan through LockheedMartin. Any human intervention causes error.
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I'm inclined to believe you. The only "missing" flight plans I've had were filed through a briefer. Haven't missed one yet via ForeFlight.
 
If it's VFR XC's like I'm doing now (500+nm), I call. I have NEXRAD on board and will use it in flight, but I call to get another opinion as well as ask any questions I might have regarding some shortcomings in weather knowledge.
 
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Living inside the SFRA in the DC, I always call to confirm any TFRs. I've gotten the weather already so I mostly end up skipping that part. Like Jay I want a recording of them telling me there is no TFRs. I don't know that it will save me but it's better then nothing. My CFI buddy and I got busted back in the days of the ADIZ when we both called for separate briefings and neither one of us were told of a NOTAM that a needed radial that defined part of a approach to a local airport was out of service. I had told the briefer we were going over to shoot approaches for a IPC. I was under the hood and we were headed towards the ADIZ to get to the the IAF and the needle never moved. My buddy was looking out the window and decided that we were getting to close to the area of the ADIZ and called me off the approach. He gave me vectors to get to the final approach course and shortly after that we got a call from the FBO to take down a number to call. He got a lawyer and still ended up with a 30 day suspension of his CFI. Their argument was since he was looking out the window he should have been able to tell where we were and there for he was busted. The forces of darkness won again
 
I have all the modern technology at my disposal, and actively use it, however I find myself calling the briefer for anything from local sightseeing in the cub to cross county flights spanning a few states. Like anything else, you get good briefings and not so good briefings.
 
I mostly call for TFR's like a lot of the other people commented. I can get a better weather briefing (for my simple mind) by using DUATs and AOPA's on-line weather graphics.
 
I usually call, and as I use foreflight and have mobile data on my ipad they don't ever tell me anything I don't already know. I'm mainly calling so there's a record I looked for TFRs... and I guess just the reassuring knowledge that another human looked at the same information I had and came to the same conclusions.
 
CTLSi said:
WXBRIEF is not called much now with all the online weather products. The ony real reason to do it is to make sure the Fllight Plan is filed.
Click to expand...

Really? I call every time I fly. No other option.
 
jtheune said:
Living inside the SFRA in the DC, I always call to confirm any TFRs. I've gotten the weather already so I mostly end up skipping that part. Like Jay I want a recording of them telling me there is no TFRs. I don't know that it will save me but it's better then nothing. My CFI buddy and I got busted back in the days of the ADIZ when we both called for separate briefings and neither one of us were told of a NOTAM that a needed radial that defined part of a approach to a local airport was out of service. I had told the briefer we were going over to shoot approaches for a IPC. I was under the hood and we were headed towards the ADIZ to get to the the IAF and the needle never moved. My buddy was looking out the window and decided that we were getting to close to the area of the ADIZ and called me off the approach. He gave me vectors to get to the final approach course and shortly after that we got a call from the FBO to take down a number to call. He got a lawyer and still ended up with a 30 day suspension of his CFI. Their argument was since he was looking out the window he should have been able to tell where we were and there for he was busted. The forces of darkness won again
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That is a chilling story. :no: :mad:
 
Sometimes the briefer tells me things I didn't realize after looking at Foreflight and aviationweather.gov. The last time, they told me the rain I would encounter had no convective activity, and that was something I didn't realize, after focusing on just the radar images. Another time, a briefer helped guide me to choose the IFR altitude that would avoid icing. Both of those were quite valuable things to know.
 
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I call to file VFR flight plans to/from Mexico. Those cannot be done online from what I am told, plus I REALLY want to make sure they are correct. I get TFRs through XM and via ForeFlight, plus if I'm going anywhere, I'll be talking to ATC or on an IFR flight plan, so not worried too much.

I actually found out about a VP TFR around Vegas while looking at my XM display enroute. Talked to ATC, and they cleared me direct and told me to haul ass to beat Biden to McCarren. Gear did not come out until over the threshold. :)

Once on the ground, they asked me twice to taxi really fast. (when your airspeed indicator starts to register as you're taxiing, you know you're taxiing fast.)
 
Talked to three briefers at Osh a couple years ago when planning the route home through Texas that day. Each one gave me a different story, all within 30 minutes, haven't talked to one since.....
 
Having had both dad and brother as former FSS employees, I've seen FSS go from an invaluable service to something redundant, that a pilot can do on their own.

For those who weren't flying pre internet and more importantly pre aviation internet / cockpit product days, FSS was just as important as ATC.

- WX briefs. Back before AWC, Weathermeister and even the weather channel, the only way to get a real weather brief was through FSS.

- Fllight plans. Before Foreflight, DUATS and others, this was the only way to file...besides base ops.

- NOTAMS. With no internet, FSS was crucial in dissemination of NOTAMS & TFRs.

- SAR. Obviously they've always been important for SAR but with increasing radar coverage, cell phones and PLBs, not nearly important as they once were.

- DF steers. Pretty sure that equipment is nonexistent now.

- Airport advisories. Back in the day when you had literally hundreds of FSSs around, they provided basic Unicom assistance to aircraft in the local area. My Dad even received an FAA award by providing geographic references (roads) and orienting a lost student who was low on fuel.

- Flight planning products. Some airports it was the only place to get FLIPs.

- Airport weather observers. Before the days of AWOS, they were the ones going out and doing ceiling and visibility observations. Forget AWOS, you had someone there at the field who could give you the real picture of changing weather.

- Local area knowledge. FSS personnel lived in the area and not in some computer console three states away. You walked in and got a face to face briefing. Most even knew the pilots by name. It was a personal connection that has long been lost.

Also, despite what some believe because of false rumors, a lot of them were former pilots. My dad knew guys who flew in the military, who used to be commercial pilots and some owned their own planes. In fact, my first GA ride was with a FSS gentleman in his aircraft. Oh yeah, if you think Lockmart hired all new aviation minded people at a lower salary, think again. A lot of the former FAA FSS guys stayed on with Lockmart and with a pay raise! If it wasn't for these experienced guys sticking around, the first year of the transition would've been far worse than it already was.

FAA saved a fortune with the consolidation of FSSs into AFSSs in the 90s. They were still relevant but not nearly as much as before. Once internet planning took over, their demise was set in motion. I haven't used their services in years and that was only in the military I was required to. Today with the type of flying I do and the information that I have at my disposal online, I don’t have a need for their services.
 
If you have not signed into the LM FSS website recently, you may want to take a few minutes and look around. I was not a fan when they first launched as the whole program seemed redundant / a waste of resources with so many other viable options already on the net.

But I have to give them credit; they've done a good job fine-tuning the information, feature set and UI, making it quite useful. I find this is where I go for a big picture briefing even though I was an early adopter of the popular EFBs. And if you are into printed NavLogs as a backup, they do a decent job of generating one to take along.

One of the latest features allows you to obtain a "Delta" briefing that only includes items that have changed since you last signed on. And you can schedule an "Email Briefing" where you select from a granular list of over 40 items (ie create your own abbreviated briefing or select "Delta") sent at a time you indicate. I usually schedule this for 15 minutes prior to departure. The email has always arrived on time and is a legal record for last minute updates.

https://www.1800wxbrief.com/Website/
 
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LDJones said:
Since acquiring ForeFlight three years ago, I've maybe spoken to a flight briefer twice in several hundred flights.
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Same for me except I'm using WingX instead of ForeFlight. Back in the 80's when I learned to fly I always called FSS to get weather briefings before every flight. Now with the weather briefings I get through WingX and other internet sources, I rarely call. The two times I've called in the past three years they really didn't help me any over what I had already gotten through the internet and WingX. I make at least two cross country flights each week going back and forth to work. Between WingX and ADS-B weather I feel like I have a good picture of the weather, NOTAMs and TFRs.
 
I remember hearing that unless you get a proper FSS flight briefing, or DUATS brief, the NTSB, FAA, etc.. does not consider you properly briefed if you file a flight plan and you cannot prove or show where you called.

This has insurance implications in a mishap. Or so I was told. I was talking to a corporate jet pilot... :dunno:

I never call them because I never file and we have all this other stuff. We just pick up FF.
 
If you use the online lockmart services and have a briefing emailed to you, will that constitute proof of a briefing? My worry would be they might say there's no way to prove you looked at the email.
 
txflyer said:
I remember hearing that unless you get a proper FSS flight briefing, or DUATS brief, the NTSB, FAA, etc.. does not consider you properly briefed if you file a flight plan and you cannot prove or show where you called.



This has insurance implications in a mishap. Or so I was told. I was talking to a corporate jet pilot... :dunno:



I never call them because I never file and we have all this other stuff. We just pick up FF.
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Pretty sure that's a bit of over paranoia. (Unless he's 135 and the op specs require it)

Foreflight can give you a legal briefing with a legal record as can fltplan.com.
 
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