Discovery flight - newbie research

2Airtime2

2Airtime2

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Nov 5, 2015
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197
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Raleigh, NC
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Cherokee 180c
My discovery flight is in 4 hrs. I set it up yesterday morning and later in the day I was working out that way so I stopped by since they also do aircraft maintenance/repairs.

I've got it bad and am trying to do as much research and pre-learning as possible to see if it's even possible for me to own a plane. If I get my ppl I will want my own plane. I'm no millionaire and would likely buy a 50yo airplane. So far I keep going back to a Cherokee 140.

I talked to 2 different A&P's and then both together for a few minutes. They both told me there are lots of 50yo aircraft in great condition but there are also some with current flight status which shouldn't have it. They say the key is a good pre-buy inspection from someone knowledgeable. Corrosion is a real issue but if the old girl doesn't have any or was caught early and treated then structurally the wing is still as good as day one back in the 60's. I suspected this since any airport you go to, if you look out at the tiedown areas, there are dozens of 50yo Cherokee's, Cessna's, Moony's, Beech's, etc., etc., etc.

Then we talked about costs for some different services. On a Cherokee type of plane they are $500 for a pre-buy, $750 for an annual which includes oil change but no repairs (repairs are extra of course), corrosion treatment $150 (they said do this every other yr). These costs were less than I thought but then we talked a little about overhauls and that's when they started grinning and I knew the figure in my head must be about right. They said 4 cylinder Lycombing runs in the neighborhood of $20k.

So I learned I can afford the purchase, a tiedown ($35 per mo. [no hangers avail. locally]), annuals, maintenance, ppl lessons, insurance, but...can't afford avionics upgrades or engine overhauls. :(:hairraise:

Well, not openly anyway. Looks like I will need to start a secret, squirrel away fund for such things.

So now I know why airplanes are so dangerous, if your wife finds out some of the costs she will kill you. :yikes:
 
How mechanically inclined are you? You can buy many newer (at least not 50 year old) experimental airplanes for not much money and do all the maintenance work yourself. You will still need to pay for an annual inspection but if anything is found you can fix it without having to pay a mechanic.

Keith
Sonex #554
 
2Airtime2 said:
My discovery flight is in 4 hrs. I set it up yesterday morning and later in the day I was working out that way so I stopped by since they also do aircraft maintenance/repairs.

I've got it bad and am trying to do as much research and pre-learning as possible to see if it's even possible for me to own a plane. If I get my ppl I will want my own plane. I'm no millionaire and would likely buy a 50yo airplane. So far I keep going back to a Cherokee 140.

I talked to 2 different A&P's and then both together for a few minutes. They both told me there are lots of 50yo aircraft in great condition but there are also some with current flight status which shouldn't have it. They say the key is a good pre-buy inspection from someone knowledgeable. Corrosion is a real issue but if the old girl doesn't have any or was caught early and treated then structurally the wing is still as good as day one back in the 60's. I suspected this since any airport you go to, if you look out at the tiedown areas, there are dozens of 50yo Cherokee's, Cessna's, Moony's, Beech's, etc., etc., etc.

Then we talked about costs for some different services. On a Cherokee type of plane they are $500 for a pre-buy, $750 for an annual which includes oil change but no repairs (repairs are extra of course), corrosion treatment $150 (they said do this every other yr). These costs were less than I thought but then we talked a little about overhauls and that's when they started grinning and I knew the figure in my head must be about right. They said 4 cylinder Lycombing runs in the neighborhood of $20k.

So I learned I can afford the purchase, a tiedown ($35 per mo. [no hangers avail. locally]), annuals, maintenance, ppl lessons, insurance, but...can't afford avionics upgrades or engine overhauls. :(:hairraise:

Well, not openly anyway. Looks like I will need to start a secret, squirrel away fund for such things.

So now I know why airplanes are so dangerous, if your wife finds out some of the costs she will kill you. :yikes:
Click to expand...

More or less :)


Just take all that car knowledge you have pertaining to age and condition and maintenance and forget it, I've seen 60+ year old planes who I'd fly across the country and back without hesitation, I've seen newer planes which were lacking in condition and flown by people who I wonder how they can even drive a car, vise versa and every other combination too. It's condition not age.

Many folks prefer the older airframe for various reasons.




Annuals can be low priced like you said, especially if you find a good AP IA and do owner assist annuals, change your own oil and tires, etc. If you don't have time for that type of stuff, just rent.

Is also really recommend getting your PPL and another 30-50hrs of renting all sorts of planes before you even think of buying a plane. In that time you'll have a little better idea what you really want in a plane, you'll know how to fly and probably make a few connections with higher time pilots and APs who can help you.


I love owning my plane, but it can get a little spendy from time to time, that said I wouldn't change a thing.
 
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you can always get a partner, too. If you find someone with similar philosophies on ownership, you split the costs immediately.

You definitely want to be able to afford it comfortably. Unexpected expenses can be costly, and there are a lot of planes rotting away b/c the owner can't afford to get them fixed.

my first year of mooney ownership included a $10k bladder install because of leaking tanks. :hairraise:
 
rbridges said:
My first year of mooney ownership included a $10k bladder install because of leaking tanks.
Click to expand...

But now that's sorted, it's something you'll not need to do for a very long time. And your really awesome aircraft just got awesomerererer.
 
Don't put the cart before the horse. Get your PPL, and start flying, and try out different planes before you settle in on owning one. The airplane you think you need now may change after your fully define your mission requirements.
 
Partners, clubs, homebuilts, if carefully researched can reduce ones cost of ownership.

Now, someone will be along to tell you that you should never buy a homebuilt as the first airplane because, um... "the wings will fall off because someone forgot to bolt them on" or something like that.

On the other hand, one should never buy a type certificated aircraft for a first airplane because you don't know what kind of fast one someone pulled back in 1954 that makes the airplane not comply with the type certificate (wrong propeller, wrong part number on the engine case, mixture control capped instead of wired shut are a few that I recall) and that the correct part no longer exists. So, as a result, your sharp eyed A.I. just converted your nice flying airplane into a parts donor with the stroke of a pen. (Doesn't happen often, but it does happen more often than "the wings will fall off" that everyone seems to like to quote when talking about homebuilts.)

Now, on the homebuilt side, where the problems REALLY lie is in the electrical / fuel / systems things - you need to look at all that very carefully. But, if there is an issue, that sort of thing can be fixed.
 
If you don't want to deal with upgrades, you can buy a C-150, Tomahawk, Yankee, Skipper, etc. with a mid-time motor (1,000-1,300 SMOH) for $15k. By the time it's ready for an overhaul you'll have come pretty close to having the thing paid off.

Someone will buy a run out trainer for $10k if it's in otherwise good shape and you can use that to then purchase your Bonanza. If you plan on doing a lot of time building after your PPL, this can be a relatively inexpensive way of going about it.
 
kmacht said:
How mechanically inclined are you? Very, I'm even a mechanical contractor :yesnod: You can buy many newer (at least not 50 year old) experimental airplanes for not much money and do all the maintenance work yourself. You will still need to pay for an annual inspection but if anything is found you can fix it without having to pay a mechanic.

Keith
Sonex #554
Click to expand...
I would like to go the experimental route. I hate paying people for things I can do myself

James331 said:
More or less :)


Just take all that car knowledge you have pertaining to age and condition and maintenance and forget it, I've seen 60+ year old planes who I'd fly across the country and back without hesitation, I've seen newer planes which were lacking in condition and flown by people who I wonder how they can even drive a car, vise versa and every other combination too. It's condition not age.

Many folks prefer the older airframe for various reasons.




Annuals can be low priced like you said, especially if you find a good AP IA and do owner assist annuals, change your own oil and tires, etc. If you don't have time for that type of stuff, just rent.

Is also really recommend getting your PPL and another 30-50hrs of renting all sorts of planes before you even think of buying a plane. In that time you'll have a little better idea what you really want in a plane, you'll know how to fly and probably make a few connections with higher time pilots and APs who can help you.


I love owning my plane, but it can get a little spendy from time to time, that said I wouldn't change a thing.
Click to expand...
:yes:

Sac Arrow said:
Don't put the cart before the horse. Get your PPL, and start flying, and try out different planes before you settle in on owning one. The airplane you think you need now may change after your fully define your mission requirements.
Click to expand...

Agreed - my pre-shopping was not to find something to buy but rather to find out if ownership was even possible for me. I wouldn't pursue getting my ppl if owning a plane was out of the question.

labbadabba said:
If you don't want to deal with upgrades, you can buy a C-150, Tomahawk, Yankee, Skipper, etc. with a mid-time motor (1,000-1,300 SMOH) for $15k. By the time it's ready for an overhaul you'll have come pretty close to having the thing paid off.

Someone will buy a run out trainer for $10k if it's in otherwise good shape and you can use that to then purchase your Bonanza. If you plan on doing a lot of time building after your PPL, this can be a relatively inexpensive way of going about it.
Click to expand...

Interesting

I flew the 172 at least 20 minutes today. 1st time I've been in a small plane since 1975. Learned some stuff. Engine torque on takeoff takes getting used to, far more R rudder than I would have thought. Turns (20 degree) require some R rudder, even left turns, I didn't know that. Set engine power for climbing then control the rate of climb with the elevator. Set engine power for descent and control speed/rate with elevator.

Wow!! those flaps are something else. 10% slows you down and 20% throws you forward. The flaps extended changes the dynamics of the wing and creates more lift at a slower speed so you need to add some down elevator, I never thought about that.

We did one touch and go with me having light pressure on the pedals and the yoke, shortly after we were in the air I took over again for the climb out. The whole time I was trying to stay keenly aware of my control and trying not to overdo it. I was not giving it enough up elevator while at the slower speed of takeoff. I had read here and somewhere else that the slower you go the more the surface has to move (which makes sense) I just need to get used to that. While flying around at 85-100kts my subtle control was just right (I was told).

Anyway, I think this is something I want to pursue so y'all might be stuck with me awhile. :wink2:
 
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Addition to other comments, if you start "small" with a well known training aircraft then your initial investment will be reasonable, as will your operation and maintenance budget. You won't get taken to the cleaners as you learn the ins/outs of aircraft ownership.

Then when you're ready to step up, you likely can sell for nearly the same price as you purchased it for. Training aircraft are always in demand and the well kept ones don't stay on the market for long.
 
well, how did the flight go? did you have fun?
 
First decide how much you plan to fly a year... If you plan to only fly 25-30 hours a year, renting is the way to go. I think you should obtain your PPL before considering purchasing an airplane... See how the discovery flight goes.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
petrolero said:
Haha! Hey guys and gals, we hooked another one! :devil:

Welcome to the sickness! :D
Click to expand...


3073014.jpg
 
James331 said:
Annuals can be low priced like you said, especially if you find a good AP IA and do owner assist annuals, change your own oil and tires, etc.
Click to expand...

An annual (for regular aircraft) or the condition (for experimentals) inspection is an inspection. In most fixed gear aircraft it shouldn't run very much. What drives up the cost is there's tons of deferred maintenance that typically gets done at the same time: oil changes, repacking wheel bearings and other lubrication, changing filters, etc...

Even on my retract the inspection part of the annual doesn't run more much more than $800.
 
petrolero said:
Haha! Hey guys and gals, we hooked another one! :devil:

Welcome to the sickness! :D
Click to expand...

rbridges said:
maybe. let's see if he posts again. :lol:
Click to expand...


So, you guys that have experience with this, what stories have worked and what type of stories just got ignored? I need help with my 1st "go fund me" attempt.

:lol:
 
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Where are you taking the discovery flight?

I'd be open to buying a 2 seat experimental with a partner in 1-2 years. Kinda like the glasairs
 
dell30rb said:
Where are you taking the discovery flight?

I'd be open to buying a 2 seat experimental with a partner in 1-2 years. Kinda like the glasairs
Click to expand...

Louisburg - Total Flight Solutions

I like the airport, seems low key. No atc. Just look around real good then announce your intentions on the appropriate frequency.

I might possibly be interested in a partnership like that by then. Buying or building? I'm not sure I have the patience for building but I certainly could maintain one.
 
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