Different Planes While Training

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HerrGruyere

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Pistol Pete
Hey y'all,

I'm currently in the midst of my PPL training. I was just curious: how many of you flew different planes while training? I have a knack for flying and have caught on quick (thanks, Flight Sim!). I like our 172R, but I really wanna maybe do a couple cross countries in the Archer we have at the school. Does anybody see anything bad about flying a different plane in training?

I've read up on the Archer. Seems I just have to watch out when doing crosswind landings since the nosewheel steers directly with rudder input as opposed to the 172's rather sluggish nosewheel response (direct connection vs. springs, I believe). Also, the Archer has a different climbout procedure as well as a carburetor instead of fuel injection.

Kind of a dumb thread, but maybe someone has an opinion on this situation, or perhaps a story, etc...
 
I believe that consistency is always best when learning anything new. When you switch planes during your training phase you might find that part of your lessons will be taken up by you getting used to the airplane. Not saying it is a safety issue but rather something that will just cost you more money in the long run.

During my training, out of necessity, I flew both a 172 and a Warrior. The handleing characteristics aren't all that different but it did take some time getting used to the site pictures on landing- High wing vs Low wing.

If it were me I would focus on one aircraft then have fun with different aircraft after you get your ticket.
 
Well, it will be interesting to hear what the veteran pilots and CFI's have to say about this because I am niether, so they might shoot me down on what I say, but here goes.

I flew different planes during my training, but didn't just switch back and forth. I think that it would not be wise to go off on a cross country as a student pilot in a plane that you didn't have SEVERAL hours dual in the plane before hand.

In fact time in type is something looked at closely in all flight accidents, and having inadequate time in type statistically leads to more accidents.

I remember reading about a VETERAN, high time pilot that went down in a Cherokee, I think it was, because he was not familiar with the fuel selector and its location. I think it is in a position that is not easily visible by the pilot or something like that. This is something easy enough to learn, but just gives you an idea how important it is to be THOROUGHLY familiar with a plane before even doing stop and go's in it, much less a cross country flight.

My inexperienced $0.02,
 
Tex_Mike said:
....something that will just cost you more money in the long run.

If it were me I would focus on one aircraft then have fun with different aircraft after you get your ticket.
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+1 on all this.

If you want to do it for fun, then go ahead...but it will detract from your normal lesson thus lengthening your training.
 
Time in type is something I'm concerned about. I realize that arbitrarily switching between the two is probably not that good an idea. But, on the other hand, I'd like to fly as many different planes as I can. Kinda like driving cars. Naturally, before I'd be endorsed to do the Archer, I would personally want some time in it - particularly in critical moments like landing. Maybe do four hours pattern work combined with basic maneuvers (stalls, slow flight, steep turns, etc.) to get a handle for the plane.

However, I'm also thinking ahead: since I basically go through an aircraft check-out to solo it, I could theoretically do the same thing for the Archer. Then, once I have my ticket, I could take either the Archer or the 172 since the school would know I'm checked out in both. I think with the maneuvers I mentioned beforehand, I'd be able to get a check-out in the Archer. The check-out is just a written test on the basic information of the plane as well as demonstrated proficiency in maneuvers (which my instructor would see).
 
Stick with the 172, unless you're prepared to spend some extra time and money on your rating. Nothing wrong with that, learning a new plane is really fun, but i'd follow the advice to get your certificate first and then transition.
 
I did my training in a Cherokee, a 152, and a 172 and was signed off the day I had 40 hours. Fly what's available. Any competent instructor and student will have no trouble switching between the two or three without racking up additional training hours. When you get close to being ready for the check ride (the last 5-10 hours or so) switch to just one plane so you're in the habit of how that one handles for the maneuvers.
 
EdFred said:
I did my training in a Cherokee, a 152, and a 172 and was signed off the day I had 40 hours. Fly what's available. Any competent instructor and student will have no trouble switching between the two or three without racking up additional training hours. When you get close to being ready for the check ride (the last 5-10 hours or so) switch to just one plane so you're in the habit of how that one handles for the maneuvers.
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Identical story for me. Once you know the basics -- pull back = go up / pull back too far = go down fast, it's just a matter of learning little nuances between planes.
 
My instructor doesn't have any problems with us taking the Archer out and has offered on a couple occasions for the next flight.

I don't mind waiting for my ticket to try something new. Hell, I've waited 25 years to even get in the pilots seat! I'll ask my instructor if there would be any difference in our lessons if we were to take the Archer out on maybe a XC or just bee-boppin' around.
 
I flew the DA-20 during my break from PPL training. It helped me keep the fire alive (so the speak). Generally speaking however, I wouldn't recommend switching. Do your 40 (or whatever it takes you), get your ticket, then go fly whatever you want to.
 
I flew on a variety of aircraft during my training. I don't think it hurt me at all, if anything it afforded me new experiences in seeing how different aircraft handle and perform.
 
I've been in Cherokees since Day 1, but just joined a club with a 172 as it's only low-end (read, not HP or complex) trainer. So, I'll be switching starting next week. The best part is -- I can go spend some "quality time" with it in the hangar getting to know the layout, preflight, controls, radios, GPS, etc without racking up instructor time.
 
I started off on 152s and when they both got pulled off the line permanently due to maintenance issues, the flight school let me finish in their Warriors for the same price.

The down side is that I lost some ground transitioning to the new plane. The up side is I learned some lessons a little better having had to relearn them on a new platform.

However, I wouldn't recommend switching planes voluntarily. Finish your training and then get checked out in other airplanes, when you don't have the pressure of a looming checkride.
 
Tex_Mike said:
I believe that consistency is always best when learning anything new. When you switch planes during your training phase you might find that part of your lessons will be taken up by you getting used to the airplane. Not saying it is a safety issue but rather something that will just cost you more money in the long run.

During my training, out of necessity, I flew both a 172 and a Warrior. The handleing characteristics aren't all that different but it did take some time getting used to the site pictures on landing- High wing vs Low wing.

If it were me I would focus on one aircraft then have fun with different aircraft after you get your ticket.
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Speaking as an instructor, I agree.
 
It will not necessarily lengthen training. When I passed my checkride I had about 48 hours. iirc 13 hours of that was in the Warrior, the rest in Cessna 172. I solo'd in the 172 and took the checkride in the 172.

My primary instructor would decide if a student could handle different aircraft and talk to the student about it. However, any use of a different aircraft would be after the first few solo flights and after the first dual XC.

Flying the warrior was useful in increasing aircraft availability. The FBO had 3 to 4 172s and 3 or 4 warriors on the line.
 
Ron Levy said:
I agree with "will not necessarily." I'd also agree with "probably will."
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Would you still claim "probably will" if done carefully?

so far it looks like 6 people posters used different aircraft during primary training. One poster didn't indicate an impact, so that one is an unknown impact. One poster indicated that he lost some time. Four posters didn't believe there was an impact (hard to disagree with that given the hours at the time of passing the checkride).
 
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I flew mostly in a 172 during training but flew a Comanche for about 10 hours in the middle of it. For me the comanche was fun and made the 172 easy to fly. I enjoy flying them both but power and speed is fun.
 
C-172, C-152, PA-28, PA-23, PA-27 prior to getting my PP-ASEL. 95%+ was in a C-172. my solo, xc, long xc, check-ride, and most everything was in a C-172. I did a few hours "heavy" in a 152 to note the difference in feel. I did a few hours in an archer because my friend was going flying just for fun and said "hey, want to come along and do the flying?"
I flew my instructor's aztec and gain a respect and understanding for why complex/high-perf endorsements exist. I bought an Apache and am enjoying coasting through the air in a flying sweet-potato.

Flying is flying, but when you want to sharpen up for any big milestone I suggest doing it in whatever you have the most experience with.
 
Started in C-150, lost access to it, switched to C-172. No significant extra time added.
 
I switched from an old 172(solo), new 172, to piper archer (checkride) and found it to be an easy transition. I soloed the archer within a couple hours of the solo 172 flight. I feel the archer is easier to land and never had any issues with the nosewheel on 15kt crosswinds.
 
One thing that would be an interesting note here is which of these opinions are coming from students/ppl's and which are coming from the instructors.

No one said that it wasn't possible to have zero increase in the hours you have when you go for your checkride...but the fact of the matter is that for most people there is going to be a transition time (which maybe small) from airplane to airplane.

And keep in mind you are flying these other airplanes with instructors, and doing "supervised" solo's in them. I highly doubt that the people that are saying they fly 3,4,5 types of airplanes before their checkride really have spent the time to go through the systems and numbers in detail on all of them. And if you did, then that lengthened your training.

There is no question if you want to complete a certain type of training as efficiently as possible, the more focused the better. Meaning stick with one airplane. If you want to try other airplanes or if other circumstances come up, then the outcome will vary on a case by case scenario.
 
Bob Noel said:
Would you still claim "probably will" if done carefully?

so far it looks like 6 people posters used different aircraft during primary training. One poster didn't indicate an impact, so that one is an unknown impact. One poster indicated that he lost some time. Four posters didn't believe there was an impact (hard to disagree with that given the hours at the time of passing the checkride).
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Sign me up for "lost a lot of time and money".
 
Not withstanding the money/time component of the conversation, depending on your current experience and adaptability, I would consider flying other aircraft for two reasons. 1)More Options means less scheduling conflicts, if your usual airplane is blocked out or unavailable when you want to fly. 2)I found that by flying more than one airplane I tended to think each action out more consciously than acting from rote memory. I found I was less likely to leave things out, like Carb heat, fuel pump, or what-ever action might be aircraft/model specific.

But that's my opinion and my experience...
 
As an instructor, I want to be comfortable that the student is compentent in all regards when soloing. My observations were that the students who switched planes lost some transition time, even if small, and didn't gain that much useful experience over getting good in one type first.
 
jnmeade said:
As an instructor, I want to be comfortable that the student is compentent in all regards when soloing. My observations were that the students who switched planes lost some transition time, even if small, and didn't gain that much useful experience over getting good in one type first.
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As a newer pilot I agree with that sentiment. During training and checkride I stayed with a C172 but did have a few of what I called "just for fun" flights with CFI to try out a DA40. There wasn't much flight training value in it but it did scratch an itch.
 
lr60plt said:
One thing that would be an interesting note here is which of these opinions are coming from students/ppl's and which are coming from the instructors.
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I'm both.

No one said that it wasn't possible to have zero increase in the hours you have when you go for your checkride...but the fact of the matter is that for most people there is going to be a transition time (which maybe small) from airplane to airplane.

And keep in mind you are flying these other airplanes with instructors, and doing "supervised" solo's in them. I highly doubt that the people that are saying they fly 3,4,5 types of airplanes before their checkride really have spent the time to go through the systems and numbers in detail on all of them. And if you did, then that lengthened your training.
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Doubt all you want. If it lengthened my training it just means I was probably ready for the check ride at 20 hours - which probably isn't far off...considering...
There is no question if you want to complete a certain type of training as efficiently as possible, the more focused the better. Meaning stick with one airplane. If you want to try other airplanes or if other circumstances come up, then the outcome will vary on a case by case scenario.
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...we basically started doing mock check rides at 20 hours.
 
When I was training for Private ticket, even minute differences between the two avialable Cherokees caused issues, despite both of them coming from the generation of overhead crank and push-button starter. The panes were essentially identical. N7342J had 140 hp, N8893W had 160 hp. It's laughable now, but back then I would always rocket through the pattern altitude in 93W.

During my jaunt in Hawaii, I flew with two instructors. The first one marked me a few things to improve, like not flying with the trim. The second one said: "What Jon said is all correct, you need to fix it, but in a way it's not important. Stop jumping airplanes and only fly one. This will help a lot". And it did!

For a student of average ability, I would say staying with one airplane is definitely worth it.
 
I'm a little bit above the average learning curve. It didn't take me a million hours to learn the 172. Plus, I'm not talking about a permanent switch. I just want to fly the Archer real quick on a XC or something. The 172 is easy to manage engine-wise since it lacks a carburetor. The Archer has a carb, so I wanna see if there's a difference. Plus, I would like to experience a low-wing plane. Heck - it'll just be neat to fly something different!

I believe my instructor wouldn't let me hop in the Archer if she felt it would slow me down. Hell I knew more about the Gooney Bird that was on the ramp today than anybody else in the school, and I can go down the ramp and name most of the planes. She knows I study all the damn time. Plus, I've already been reviewing the checklists and procedures for the Archer so I can be well prepared and not fumble around.

I really don't think it'll slow me down. At most it'll probably tack on an extra hour to my total time.


/cocky
 
EdFred said:
...we basically started doing mock check rides at 20 hours.
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Congratulations, sounds like you are very happy with yourself. It doesnt go so well for everyone, however. Im sure there are a lot of people NOT posting in this thread because they cant keep up with all the 40hr checkriders, which sways the consensus.

In all of your posts you only talk about YOUR experience...and as ive said, good for you, however when looking at the average student walking into a new training environment, consistency helps.
 
As you guys know I'm not a pilot or training yet but in my mind it would only be logical to train on one aircraft consistently. It's like baseball for instance. Why learn to swing a bat by using five different sizes and weights? When learning to drive did your parents or driving instructor teach you on five different cars? Switching back and forth doesn't make sense in my mind.
 
HerrGruyere said:
I'm a little bit above the average learning curve. It didn't take me a million hours to learn the 172. Plus, I'm not talking about a permanent switch. I just want to fly the Archer real quick on a XC or something. The 172 is easy to manage engine-wise since it lacks a carburetor. The Archer has a carb, so I wanna see if there's a difference. Plus, I would like to experience a low-wing plane. Heck - it'll just be neat to fly something different!

I believe my instructor wouldn't let me hop in the Archer if she felt it would slow me down. Hell I knew more about the Gooney Bird that was on the ramp today than anybody else in the school, and I can go down the ramp and name most of the planes. She knows I study all the damn time. Plus, I've already been reviewing the checklists and procedures for the Archer so I can be well prepared and not fumble around.

I really don't think it'll slow me down. At most it'll probably tack on an extra hour to my total time.


/cocky
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Go for it, then. I thought you intended to try training in an inconsistent set of planes. If this is simply a chance to experience a new plane with the understanding that you are experiencing differences, but not mastering them, go for it. It'll make you a better pilot.
 
Yeah I definitely wouldn't switch back and forth between the Archer and the 172. I just wanted to experience the differences between the two types of aircraft and their specific systems. Just like one flight.

However, I completely agree with not switching between two different aircraft all the time. You won't learn anything!
 
lr60plt said:
... however. Im sure there are a lot of people NOT posting in this thread because they cant keep up with all the 40hr checkriders, which sways the consensus.
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The only thing indicated by a person passing the checkride at 40 hours is that the person had 40 hours. There are many many variables in play that can minimize or increase the hours needed to pass the checkride.

Once we pass the checkride we are all certificated pilots (ignoring the fact that student pilots also have a certificate).
 
lr60plt said:
Congratulations, sounds like you are very happy with yourself. It doesnt go so well for everyone, however. Im sure there are a lot of people NOT posting in this thread because they cant keep up with all the 40hr checkriders, which sways the consensus.

In all of your posts you only talk about YOUR experience...and as ive said, good for you, however when looking at the average student walking into a new training environment, consistency helps.
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Of course I talk about my experience, because he asked about it. He didn't ask how many planes some guy I know whose cousin's sister-in-law's uncle's neighbor's kid flew during training. But if we want to talk about other people, my last student flew diamonds for about 5 hours while doing training in a cardinal with me. and he passed his check-ride with less than 45 hours.
 
LJS1993 said:
As you guys know I'm not a pilot or training yet but in my mind it would only be logical to train on one aircraft consistently. It's like baseball for instance. Why learn to swing a bat by using five different sizes and weights? When learning to drive did your parents or driving instructor teach you on five different cars? Switching back and forth doesn't make sense in my mind.
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3 different cars. Well, 2 trucks and one car. The car was a stick. I was 10-12.
 
LJS1993 said:
As you guys know I'm not a pilot or training yet but in my mind it would only be logical to train on one aircraft consistently. It's like baseball for instance. Why learn to swing a bat by using five different sizes and weights? When learning to drive did your parents or driving instructor teach you on five different cars? Switching back and forth doesn't make sense in my mind.
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otoh - my instructor made opportunities for me to fly with different fuel loads and, since I was using the 172, she also occasionally took along a friend in the back seat. This forced me to learn to fly the aircraft in its differnt W&B configurations, however subtly different, rather than get used to the aircraft with just her and me in it.
 
Why do you want to fly?

What is your objective?

Get the ticket in the minimum number of hours? Then what?

Or, do you just like to fly?

If the former, changing aircraft is likely to "set you back".

If the latter, so what if it takes a couple more hours to get the paperwork done. Do what you want and enjoy the process. That's the whole point.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Why do you want to fly?

What is your objective?

Get the ticket in the minimum number of hours? Then what?

Or, do you just like to fly?

If the former, changing aircraft is likely to "set you back".

If the latter, so what if it takes a couple more hours to get the paperwork done. Do what you want and enjoy the process. That's the whole point.
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Exactly, if you aren't worried about the hours to private what's the issue? So it costs you an extra $100 bucks for the instructor's 3-4 hours if you aren't a quick/natural learner. You're gonna rent a plane anyway - post or pre-private anyway. And if you're that good that you're gonna hit 40 hours anyway, the trying new planes isn't going to lengthen your training at all.
 
EdFred said:
Of course I talk about my experience, because he asked about it. He didn't ask how many planes some guy I know whose cousin's sister-in-law's uncle's neighbor's kid flew during training. But if we want to talk about other people, my last student flew diamonds for about 5 hours while doing training in a cardinal with me. and he passed his check-ride with less than 45 hours.
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You quoted MY response where i was generalizing.

I never once said that it cant be done and that it doesnt affect some peoples experience. All i said is that its all a case by scenerio....i have no idea why you pick apart my comments as if they are directly at you personally.

It still stands that for most of the student population consistency will be helpful, i dont see how you can argue that.

Hell why dont we have them fly with a different instructor and to a different airport every lesson. Why not throw in a learjet, seaplane and the space shuttle into their training there since aparently everything after 20 hours is just checkride prep.
:rolleyes:
 
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