Diesel Jetta v. Gas Honda Accord

I bought a Jetta TDI in 2001. I'm not sure how many miles it has on it now - I put about 230,000 on it and gave it to my parents - but it has been the best value I've ever experienced in a new car. I'm a bit of a DIY person so I've never had anyone do a timing belt for me, but late last year I happened to be in an independent VW shop that was advertising TDI timing belt changes for $499.

I upgraded the turbo after the original failed (at 193K miles), and did the rest of the tune-up stuff as upgrades (injectors, tune, intercooler, suspension, and so on). It even has a trailer hitch and roof rack.

Of course a 1.9l engine pushing a 3200lb car is never going to be a performance experience. When I first got it I went out to El Mirage dry lake in the high desert of California and did a speed run. With myself and three passengers it was indicating around 105 on the handheld GPS I had at the time. Kinda pathetic until you consider it had 90HP. Maybe even then. Last time I had that opportunity (after the engine work, before the suspension) it was past 115 and accelerating when I eased off because I didn't like the floaty feel. That's part of why I didn't get around to water/alcohol or propane injection - I think bolt-on wings on the trunk are ugly, and suspension can only do so much. Of course it got to 115 a lot quicker but, still, I don't think even 120 will ever be practical. For an econobox that gets 40-50mpg it's pretty OK though. To get that it now boosts to ~1.9 bar (about 27PSI), and EGTs go up to the 700c range on hard acceleration - a bit hotter than I'd like really but it's a good retiree car.
 
I had a 96 grand cherokee with the 4.0 that ran strong until i sold it with 200k miles. My dad bought it new and it was a hand me down at 140k miles. Should have kept it. My 01 grand cherokee with the 4.7 v8 burns quite a bit of oil and is only at 180,000 miles. The 4.0 didn't burn a drop.

Time for a new car. I'm not sure what i'll wind up with. I hunt / fish alot and have a huge ass labrador so I need a suv/truck but I also have a long commute to work so i'm kinda stuck. Might keep the 01 grand cherokee and buy a car :yikes:

interesting thread as i was thinking diesel jetta or accord.

My girlfriend just bought a 2011 Chevy equinox for around 22k with some good options. Its got as much room as my jeep, is very comfortable and it gets about 30 highway mpg. Its not ugly (kinda plain though) and handles very well. The only problem is that is has a 2.4l 4 cylinder and its one of the slowest vehicles I have ever driven. Roomy and comfortable for 4 people to take a road trip, however try to make a normal pass on a 55mph road and the thing will hit 5krpm's

Still I am interested because
 
CJones said:
When I said that we would drive that car "until the wheels fall off", I didn't expect it to actually happen. :mad2: I guess we're car shopping this week. :(
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I had a 99 Jetta -- put 3 new oil pans on it which were punctured by road debris -- before finally getting an aftermarket steel one.

The stock TDI sump is amazingly fragile. Inexpensive if you catch it before the engine throws all of the oil overboard, but not a rugged design IMO.

Your Passat may only need a few hundred bucks thrown at it. Maybe a tire chunk nicked it?
 
schmookeeg said:
I had a 99 Jetta -- put 3 new oil pans on it which were punctured by road debris -- before finally getting an aftermarket steel one.

The stock TDI sump is amazingly fragile. Inexpensive if you catch it before the engine throws all of the oil overboard, but not a rugged design IMO.

Your Passat may only need a few hundred bucks thrown at it. Maybe a tire chunk nicked it?
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I'm kind of hoping it's something simple like that. With that tire flat, the belly sits REALLY low to the ground - even a high-profile road reflector would be close to hitting something. We went and bought her a new (to us) car yesterday, but if I can get this one going for cheap, I'll park the gas-hog Jeep in the garage and drive the Passat to work. Everything was so covered in oil that I couldn't see anything obvious. I'll get a case of Brake-Kleen on the way home this afternoon and clean it up and see if it's something simple. Good to know that the oil pan is a weak point.

We were planning on getting her something more dependable soon, this situation just pushed up the timeline a bit. ;)
 
schmookeeg said:
I had a 99 Jetta -- put 3 new oil pans on it which were punctured by road debris -- before finally getting an aftermarket steel one.

The stock TDI sump is amazingly fragile. Inexpensive if you catch it before the engine throws all of the oil overboard, but not a rugged design IMO.
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I ordered a new oil pan and a steel skid plate manufactured by VW for the African market at the same time, installed them both, and never had that problem again.
 
denverpilot said:
Never got better than 18.5 but mine was an automatic transmission. Did you have the stick?

(Wife. Auto. Don't go there. LOL!)

Never had any problems at all with leaky injectors, but had the ubiquitous rear main seal leaks by the time it left here to go hang with my sister.

Those 4.0 engines were virtually bulletproof. I won't even go into how much I abused that thing.

Did have to put two radiators in it before 200K though.
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My 4.0 in my 89 Commanche has 270,000 on it, and still going. I have had to replace a few leaky injectors. It has an oil small leak near the back of the engine somewhere I haven't been able to find. It isn't Rear Seal, it is perfectly dry. I have replaced the Radiator, but may not have had to if I would have replaced the fan Clutch 1st.

Still trying to figure out what to replace it with when it finally gives up. I need something to commute 40miles/day to work and then about 2 or 3 times a year tow my 1500# glider trailer up to about 300 miles.

I haven't found alot that is much of an improvement over the Jeep for that mission.

Brian
 
I have had the Jetta for a little over three years now. So far I have not paid a dime in maintenance. But now things are no longer under warranty.

I have tracked every single fuel up since I bought the car.

With just over 36,000 miles on the car the fuel economy number are this:
Average mpg: 36.7
Best mpg: 43.9
Total spent in fuel: $3261.99
Average cost/mile: $.093

FWIW 88% of the time I am driving in a city. The fuel I get stuck using is mostly b5 but sometimes b11 because you can't get straight D2 in Illinois easily.
 
Gary Shelby just got his wife a diesel jetta last year I think he saw 48 mpg on a HWY trip from PA to NC.
 
I've had my 2006 TDi Jetta for over 3.5 years now and average mileage is 42mpg with a high of 49.8 and a low of 38.8. Maintainence has been pretty low cost other than the timing belt change which included a new waterpump and all the belt tensioners. That was about $1100. I do oil changes every 5 thousand because the PD engines wear out oil sooner. They use 4 injector pumps that run off the camshaft instead of the earlier timed pump driven off the engine or the new common rail system. I got the car with 29,500 miles on it and its up to 123,000 now. I'd say that all in all we got our money's worth. I love the car and its nice to fill up every 500 miles instead of 2-300 like the toyota gas engined car we have. The wife liked the Jetta enough that when her toyota started showing its years she just bought a 2009 TDi Jetta Wagon. It doesn't get quite the mileage the 2006 does but its still better than any of the other comparables out there. Plenty of power, good mileage nice driving car and plenty of room for us and our toys. We make lots of trips between home and NM/AZ and eastward to Maine as well.

Frank
 
ScottM said:
With just over 36,000 miles on the car the fuel economy number are this:
Average mpg: 36.7
Best mpg: 43.9
Total spent in fuel: $3261.99
Average cost/mile: $.093
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Good to see you post! :D

The wife's numbers are a bit better, but her car is a 2012 Golf TDI, a bit smaller and lighter. After 20k miles, no issues.

AdamZ said:
Gary Shelby just got his wife a diesel jetta last year I think he saw 48 mpg on a HWY trip from PA to NC.
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It was 46. Most of it non-stop highway driving at 65MPH. Around town it is more likely to be in the 36-38MPG range.

The Golf is a very well made, fun to drive, comfortable, high quality car. Amy really loves it! Not cheap to purchase, but, IMHO a good value.

I'm driving a 2012 Accord coupe with the 2.4L four. Bigger than the Golf, not as quick. Does still have that Honda ride which I do like. Highway mileage is in the low 30's, around town - mid-20's. Like them both!

Gary
 
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Yesterday, my '06 Jetta TDI made it past 150k.


Works as advertised.
 

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We just put a third transmission (counting the first one it came with) in the 04' Jetta TDI Wagon at 125K.

Never again. Piece of junk.
 
ScottM said:
I have had the Jetta for a little over three years now. So far I have not paid a dime in maintenance. But now things are no longer under warranty.

I have tracked every single fuel up since I bought the car.

With just over 36,000 miles on the car the fuel economy number are this:
Average mpg: 36.7
Best mpg: 43.9
Total spent in fuel: $3261.99
Average cost/mile: $.093

FWIW 88% of the time I am driving in a city. The fuel I get stuck using is mostly b5 but sometimes b11 because you can't get straight D2 in Illinois easily.
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Well, look what the cat dragged in! :D (The new avatar is a winner, too.)

Those are pretty impressive MPG numbers for being mostly city driving.
 
Wow. Can't believe it's been a year since this thread was updated. Thanks for the semi-necro-post, Scott.

I put a new oil pan on my wife's 99 Passat and I have been driving it since then. It's a little over 235k miles now. The valve covers leak a little oil - I've removed them and replaced/repaired the gaskets twice, but it's still seeping way back against the firewall. Amazingly, a quart of Lucas Oil Stop Leak seems to fix it enough to prevent it from smelling like burning oil. At 235k miles, I'm not worried about reduced longevity because of the Stop Leak, so I'll keep feeding it a quart every couple months and call it good.

Still gets 22-27mpg at 80mph on the interstate, is paid for, and insurance (liability) is pretty cheap. I keep saying that I'll get rid of the Jeep and get a truck when the car dies, but it's hard to beat a deal like it's giving me right now.
 
Scott,

Thanks for the update. I'll soon be in the market for another car. I tend to get a car, then drive it until the wheels fall off. My current car is just about to lose a wheel or three.

I'd look into a diesel Jetta, but I think we only have one dealer in town, and it's a ways away. How much maintenance on that car requires the dealer or do most shops have the ability to work on it?

How does it do in the cold?
 
Matthew said:
Scott,

Thanks for the update. I'll soon be in the market for another car. I tend to get a car, then drive it until the wheels fall off. My current car is just about to lose a wheel or three.

I'd look into a diesel Jetta, but I think we only have one dealer in town, and it's a ways away. How much maintenance on that car requires the dealer or do most shops have the ability to work on it?

How does it do in the cold?
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There are a lot of guys doing work on these themselves. It does come with a 3yr/36,000 bumper to bumper warranty and my DSG Xmission has a 100k guaranty, although I get to pay for the regular preventive maintenance on it aka the 40k check up. There is a lot of really good online sites that assist with the Diesel VWs. It is like a little club.

In the cold, well you know where I live. It does great, never had a problem with really cold starts. Sometimes the glow plugs will take all of 60 seconds to heat up enough to get it to crank, but never had a hard start. In the fall I do make sure to fill up at places that pump a lot Diesel so I get the winter mix. I also add a cap of stuff that may just be snak oil, but everyone seems to do it and I don't want to be the one guy not to. So peer pressure! My tires, which are not OEMs do better on the snow than the original ones, but even the old ones were not horrible. I love the car. Rides great and has the German engineering feel! I am looking at a BMW 320d if they bring them her as rumored. That would be a fun car to have.
 
brcase said:
My 4.0 in my 89 Commanche has 270,000 on it, and still going. I have had to replace a few leaky injectors. It has an oil small leak near the back of the engine somewhere I haven't been able to find. It isn't Rear Seal, it is perfectly dry. I have replaced the Radiator, but may not have had to if I would have replaced the fan Clutch 1st.
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Try the oil filter mount, where it bolts on to the block
 
ScottM said:
...

I am looking at a BMW 320d if they bring them her as rumored. That would be a fun car to have.
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Would that be a 3-series with a nice 2 litre 4-cylinder? Such a car, with a 6-speed manual, would be quite nearly perfect...
 
denverpilot said:
We just put a third transmission (counting the first one it came with) in the 04' Jetta TDI Wagon at 125K.
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If it's any consolation, that transmission was a legendary piece of junk, it went extinct with the '06 model year.


Noticed today that since 2006, I now have put 130k on both, the Accord and the Jetta TDI respectively. Both have been very good cars.

Routine maintenance Jetta:

12 oil changes
6 fuel filter changes
1 transmission fluid + filter change (about a $500 job iirc)
1 brake fluid change
1 set of brake pads
1 batttery


Routine maintenance Accord:

24 oil changes
1 fuel filter change
0 clutch work
3 sets of front rotors
2 sets of front pads
1 set of rear pads
1 battery


Failures Jetta:

- Dual Mass Flywheel at 33k (which required transmission and driveshaft replacement)
- Occasional electrical gremlins that required some cleaning of those junk connectors used on mexican production VWs.
- boxes worth of H7 lamps & 2057 lamps

Failures Accord:

- 1 dome light bulb
- ashtray cover stopped locking
- 1 throttle/pedal position sensor
 
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weilke said:
If it's any consolation, that transmission was a legendary piece of junk, it went extinct with the '06 model year.

I did need a new tranny at 33k, it was an innocent bystander in the violent death of another component (the flywheel).
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I wouldn't mind if they'd actually stand up like men and admit they built garbage.

As far as winter starts goes, zero problems. Nothing to worry about there.

$13.5K I'm repairs on that car since new, most under a well-advised extended warranty. Cracked intake and exhaust manifolds, almost every hard plastic tank under the hood has cracked or otherwise needing replacement, the two transmission replacements, bad motor in the moonroof, the list goes on.

Total PoS. Diesel engine has been solid, though. That's about it.
 
denverpilot said:
I wouldn't mind if they'd actually stand up like men and admit they built garbage.
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Admitting error is not one of their strenghts as a corporation. When the dual mass flywheels on manual transmissions were coming apart left and right, they blamed it on 'user error' and refused coverage as a 'wear item'. It took the same part to fail on their automatic transmission equipped models for them to admit defeat and replace them under warranty.
 
Matthew said:
So what's involved with the 40k checkup?
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The dual clutch (DSG) transmission is filled with a substance known as 'liquid gold'. It is proprietary stuff from VW/Borg Warner. There is also a filter in the tranny that picks up the ground up clutch friction surfaces. Doing the service requires use of the VW CanBus scanner, some specialized tools and the ability to do some things that seem to make no sense. To replace the filter, you have to access the top of the transmission which requires removing a lot of hardware above (battery, some induction tubing....).
 
weilke said:
The dual clutch (DSG) transmission is filled with a substance known as 'liquid gold'. It is proprietary stuff from VW/Borg Warner. There is also a filter in the tranny that picks up the ground up clutch friction surfaces. Doing the service requires use of the VW CanBus scanner, some specialized tools and the ability to do some things that seem to make no sense. To replace the filter, you have to access the top of the transmission which requires removing a lot of hardware above (battery, some induction tubing....).
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Oh, yeah. That famous German engineering.

It's clever of them to schedule it after the 36k maintenance program.
 
denverpilot said:
VagCom won't do it?
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...or a VAGCom....

You need a way to record the temperature inside of the transmission, somehow the level of the fluid is standardized to temperature. Also there are some calibration steps after a fluid change.
 
SCCutler said:
Would that be a 3-series with a nice 2 litre 4-cylinder? Such a car, with a 6-speed manual, would be quite nearly perfect...
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That would be the one. Richard Hammond called it "the best car ever made." I have seen that BMW will officially introduce it into America in the 2013 model year, but have not seen a firm date yet. They took the 335d off of the American market in 2012 and introduced their hybrid. I am not a hybrid fan so that did not interest me in the least. I hate how BMW and other companies think that one wants either a Diesel or a hybrid, it is not an overlapping market.
 
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ScottM said:
That would be the one. Richard Hammond called it "the best car ever made." I have seen that BMW will officially introduce it into America in the 2013 model year, but have not seen a firm date yet. They took the 335d off of the American market in 2012 and introduced their hybrid. I am not a hybrid fan so that did not interest me in the least. I hate how BMW and other companies think that one wants either a Diesel or a hybrid, it is not an overlapping market.
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I have driven a 530td, the 335 was a bit of a 5# of stuff in a 2# bag situation. The smaller engine is a better fit if outstanding fuel economy is the goal. I agree with you on the diesel/hybrid thing and the small minds of marketing folks, The knuckleheads at Mercedes think that every single of their US customers wants automatic transmission and they don't offer the diesel engine in the wagon when that is readily available in every non-US market.
 
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