Diesel Jetta v. Gas Honda Accord

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

I think Isuzu got out of their league when they designed it (for those who don't know - the Duramax Diesel is actually an Isuzu design). They had some significant cylinder head and injector issues early on. Aluminum heads on a diesel can be done, but they are difficult to do, and in my opinion, what's the point on a 2500/3500 series pickup? The CRDI had issues, moreso than the International/Navistar engines in the Fords and certainly more than the Cummins engines. I seem to recall the turbos were VGT and had issues. Really, the Allison transmission was the only thing they could really push with it. And I hate automatics. I think they just tried to pack too many features in, and didn't have the experience to do so. Even my 2004.5 Cummins didn't have a VGT, and it didn't need it. But, the Duramax was quiet, and that was its claim to fame.

The 6.5L turbo diesel that preceeded it was also junk, though, so in comparison it's arguably better.

We're now on I believe the 4th or 5th version of the Duramax, and it's probably gotten better. I'm far removed from that world these days. However, I believe that Cummins and International/Navistar understand how to build a much better engine for that market. I've been happy with the PowerStrokes I've driven, both the 7.3L and 6.0L. The 6.4s and newer I haven't driven, but the people I know who have them like them. I like my Ford now, and when it dies, I'll probably buy another.



Remember, my job is to come very close to blowing up engines without actually doing so. I've been successful at it this far.

I bought one in 2009, I'll let you know if/when it explodes.

So far, though, the performance has mirrored the numbers you and Henning have posted. The most exciting thing about a diesel, though, is that it doesn't need to shift to go up hills. That's fun to me, for some reason.

 

[gkainz]

My son and DIL just bought an '11 Jetta TDI ... so far they're loving it. They had to send me a photo of their display screen showing 51MPG on their last trip. Finally got the inside scoop on that - they were coming down I-70 from Eisenhower tunnel. They did get over 40mpg on their last trip across WY with it.

Anyway, here's hoping for their sake it treats them well. It does sort of tweak me that my kids have nicer cars than me, and then my wife reminds me I did the same thing at that age. I just tell myself "look at all the car payments in our check book register - yeah, that's right - $0!"

 

[Ted]

Maybe in the features of it, but I've been operating industrial Isuzu diesels for many years and have had no problems with them, but they were all "old tech".

That doesn't surprise me. The "old tech" diesels were pretty indestructible. The newer ones are the issue.

I bought one in 2009, I'll let you know if/when it explodes.

I'll be interested to hear! Although "explodes" isn't always the real issue, since many other problems can occur first. On the 6.5s, for instance, they had a big issue with the PMD - a small computer that was located in the vee of the engine on the injector pump. It breaks, whole truck goe sout.

So far, though, the performance has mirrored the numbers you and Henning have posted. The most exciting thing about a diesel, though, is that it doesn't need to shift to go up hills. That's fun to me, for some reason.

I know what you mean. I love turbodiesels and the way they drive. They also make all kinds of cool noises, the torque is awesome, and I also find the sound of a turbodiesel comforting on cold winter days.

 

[CJones]

Interesting that Isuzu diesel's came up...

My first vehicle when I turned 16 was a 1981 Isuzu P'up - 4 cyl diesel, 4 speed manual, 4wd with lockout hubs. It was the last remnant from my dad's farming days and I had been driving it since I was 7 y/o. It was originally red, but after years of sitting on the edge of cotton fields, it had faded to an almost 'hot' pink color. The driver side window wouldn't roll down because it had been involved in a cattle stampede which dented the door in enough to bust the internals (but not bad enough to require replacing the door). The thing would top out at 55 mph and if you forced it to 60 going downhill, the thing would shake so bad that you couldn't recognize anything in the mirrors. The 'computer' that controlled the glow plugs was toast, so in the winter I kept a can of ether behind the seat that I would use in the morning to get it started. If the sun came out during the day, it would stay warm enough that I wouldn't have to 'juice' it to get it started after school. If it was a cold, cloudy day or we had a long basketball practice, I was sure to be popping the hood before I could get home.

I was so embarassed of the thing back then, but looking back it was absolutely the best 'first' vehicle. It was too slow for me to kill myself with speed. It was ugly enough that I never got loaded up with friends encouraging me to do stupid stuff while driving. It had 4WD, so I could screw around off-road. It had enough 'quirks' that I had to learn how to deal with issues on-the-fly, but it was dependable enough that I never really worried about it getting me home.

I miss 'lil Red.

I would love to have a diesel pickup (full-sized this time), but as already mentioned - the best way to kill a diesel is to not stress it every once in a while ('blowing the soot out' as my grandad would say), and I'm pretty sure my little 5x8 utility trailer hauling my kayaks around wouldn't be much good for breaking in a new diesel.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

...
I'll be interested to hear! Although "explodes" isn't always the real issue, since many other problems can occur first. On the 6.5s, for instance, they had a big issue with the PMD - a small computer that was located in the vee of the engine on the injector pump. It breaks, whole truck goe sout.

Well, it's got a 100K mile warranty, if she esplodes it's on GMC for the next few years.

What stinks is that I'm pretty sure that I won't be able to work on that engine if/when something goes wrong with it. Which is unfortunate.

I know what you mean. I love turbodiesels and the way they drive. They also make all kinds of cool noises, the torque is awesome, and I also find the sound of a turbodiesel comforting on cold winter days.

I may, or may not, like to roll the windows down on Miner Street in Idaho Springs just to listen to the turbocharger. It's about 30 yards wide, with fairly tall buildings on either side. But I'd never do anything cheesy like that.

The thing that was new to me was a block heater. There were a couple days in January this year where it was -35 or so in the morning. The poor jeep I've got made noises that I've literally never heard from a car before; the pickup started on one crank and was already warm.

The solution this year, in lieu of a block heater, over in Summit County (Breckenridge, Keystone, Copper Mtn.) was to light a fire under the block. Normally, that'll work...but sometimes you might burn up something like a dump truck.

 

[Trapper John]

I may, or may not, like to roll the windows down on Miner Street in Idaho Springs just to listen to the turbocharger. It's about 30 yards wide, with fairly tall buildings on either side. But I'd never do anything cheesy like that.

Might be fun to put a Jake Brake on it, too...

 

[Ted]

Well, it's got a 100K mile warranty, if she esplodes it's on GMC for the next few years.

What stinks is that I'm pretty sure that I won't be able to work on that engine if/when something goes wrong with it. Which is unfortunate.

100k warranties are nice.

But you're right, when it breaks, it will be very difficult to work on yourself.

I may, or may not, like to roll the windows down on Miner Street in Idaho Springs just to listen to the turbocharger. It's about 30 yards wide, with fairly tall buildings on either side. But I'd never do anything cheesy like that.

Oh, I did that lots of times!

The thing that was new to me was a block heater. There were a couple days in January this year where it was -35 or so in the morning. The poor jeep I've got made noises that I've literally never heard from a car before; the pickup started on one crank and was already warm.

The solution this year, in lieu of a block heater, over in Summit County (Breckenridge, Keystone, Copper Mtn.) was to light a fire under the block. Normally, that'll work...but sometimes you might burn up something like a dump truck.

The block heater is very nice. The reality is no engine really likes to start when it's really cold, but gasoline car engines just do it better than diesels or aircraft engines. For all the same reasons as Tanis heaters on an airplane, they're great to have.

I started my Excursion once in -25F weather. Man oh man, that thing did not want to work at all. Brakes didn't want to work, engine didn't want to work. Once it got warmed up, it was fine. I will say that the Mooney took off like it had a 540 in it instead of a 360!

 

[gkainz]

The solution this year, in lieu of a block heater, over in Summit County (Breckenridge, Keystone, Copper Mtn.) was to light a fire under the block. Normally, that'll work...but sometimes you might burn up something like a dump truck.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/26718221/detail.html

I hate to admit that I've done this once or twice - in Minnesota. No trucks were harmed in the process.

 

[denverpilot]

Our '05 (late '04 1/2 model 'year') Jetta TDI wagon had $13K in extended warranty repairs in the first 50K miles. Cracked intake manifold, blown transmission, broken coolant tank, eats brakes. Piece of crap.

The previous '93 Honda Civic was driven until the insurance company totaled it and we sold it for salvage. Boulder cop fixed it up and still drives it today.

Luckily I had thought about extended warranty, since everyone said VW's were expensive and fussy, and when the dealer offered it for a whopping total sum of $250, I said, "Absolutely!" Wasn't expecting that.

The third party warranty company sent out "investigators" twice seeing if we were abusing the vehicle or attempting fraud. Guess they got the VW shaft up their backsides and I missed out for a paltry tank of gas in the 182!

Now the warranty is way out and it's running great, so we cross our fingers and dump it as soon as it's time to "swap" car payments and the Yukon is paid off -- or we drive it until it quits, keep pocketing the cash, and call a donation company and tell 'em what road to find it on when it craps out. Ha.

Wife wants a truck/SUV now that she's been spoiled by my Yukon. Chicks + Trucks = Hot!!

 

[tonycondon]

well you just need to join the local glider club then...

Interesting that Isuzu diesel's came up...

My first vehicle when I turned 16 was a 1981 Isuzu P'up - 4 cyl diesel, 4 speed manual, 4wd with lockout hubs. It was the last remnant from my dad's farming days and I had been driving it since I was 7 y/o. It was originally red, but after years of sitting on the edge of cotton fields, it had faded to an almost 'hot' pink color. The driver side window wouldn't roll down because it had been involved in a cattle stampede which dented the door in enough to bust the internals (but not bad enough to require replacing the door). The thing would top out at 55 mph and if you forced it to 60 going downhill, the thing would shake so bad that you couldn't recognize anything in the mirrors. The 'computer' that controlled the glow plugs was toast, so in the winter I kept a can of ether behind the seat that I would use in the morning to get it started. If the sun came out during the day, it would stay warm enough that I wouldn't have to 'juice' it to get it started after school. If it was a cold, cloudy day or we had a long basketball practice, I was sure to be popping the hood before I could get home.

I was so embarassed of the thing back then, but looking back it was absolutely the best 'first' vehicle. It was too slow for me to kill myself with speed. It was ugly enough that I never got loaded up with friends encouraging me to do stupid stuff while driving. It had 4WD, so I could screw around off-road. It had enough 'quirks' that I had to learn how to deal with issues on-the-fly, but it was dependable enough that I never really worried about it getting me home.

I miss 'lil Red.

I would love to have a diesel pickup (full-sized this time), but as already mentioned - the best way to kill a diesel is to not stress it every once in a while ('blowing the soot out' as my grandad would say), and I'm pretty sure my little 5x8 utility trailer hauling my kayaks around wouldn't be much good for breaking in a new diesel.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/26718221/detail.html

I hate to admit that I've done this once or twice - in Minnesota. No trucks were harmed in the process.

Before, I'd actually thought that would be fairly safe as long as you kept an eye on it. I guess not.

It was so flipping cold those few days. That was enough winter for me this year.

 

[gkainz]

Before, I'd actually thought that would be fairly safe as long as you kept an eye on it. I guess not.

It was so flipping cold those few days. That was enough winter for me this year.

I think the difference might have been when using charcoal, you let the flames die down before sliding the fire under the oil pan.

 

[Alexb2000]

I think Isuzu got out of their league when they designed it (for those who don't know - the Duramax Diesel is actually an Isuzu design). They had some significant cylinder head and injector issues early on. Aluminum heads on a diesel can be done, but they are difficult to do, and in my opinion, what's the point on a 2500/3500 series pickup? The CRDI had issues, moreso than the International/Navistar engines in the Fords and certainly more than the Cummins engines. I seem to recall the turbos were VGT and had issues. Really, the Allison transmission was the only thing they could really push with it. And I hate automatics. I think they just tried to pack too many features in, and didn't have the experience to do so. Even my 2004.5 Cummins didn't have a VGT, and it didn't need it. But, the Duramax was quiet, and that was its claim to fame.

The 6.5L turbo diesel that preceeded it was also junk, though, so in comparison it's arguably better.

We're now on I believe the 4th or 5th version of the Duramax, and it's probably gotten better. I'm far removed from that world these days. However, I believe that Cummins and International/Navistar understand how to build a much better engine for that market. I've been happy with the PowerStrokes I've driven, both the 7.3L and 6.0L. The 6.4s and newer I haven't driven, but the people I know who have them like them. I like my Ford now, and when it dies, I'll probably buy another.



Remember, my job is to come very close to blowing up engines without actually doing so. I've been successful at it this far.

Having owned about 50 diesel pickups and many heavy trucks of all makes over a period of 20 years I'll have to disagree that the Duramax is no good. Granted they did have issues with the LB7 (2001-2004) injectors (so GM warrantied them to 7 years/200K). The LLY 2004.5+ and newer versions all have a completely different head and injector setup. Variable geometry turbos are great when we want to drive a truck that performs like a car with 20K in tow and the Duramax was first to bring it to market. Considering that all 3 manufacturers have now gone to variable geometry turbos should confirm this is the direction. Every brand just like aircraft have their faults (I can list them if need be), but overall the Duramax has performed very well for me.

BTW it isn't really fair to compare the Duramax to the 6.5, entirely different animals since the 6.2/6.5 was designed by Detroit Diesel not Isuzu.

 

[flyersfan31]

I drove a TDi Renault Laguna, circa 1999. When they tossed me the keys at the counter (in France, of course) I groaned, inwardly. Ugh. Diesel.

I really enjoyed it. 5sp. Decent zip. Good mileage. Cheaper fuel. In all, a very driveable engine.

I have nothing against diesels. Some of my best friends are diesels. I'm just very wary of VWs. (And, for the record, my family had a 67 bus, a 77 bus -- total dog, a 68 bug, 72 beetle, 2 74 beetles, and an 84 Rabbit GTI, so it's not like I come from a family of VW haters.)

 

[jesse]

My dad had a couple of old rabbits when I was growing up and he loved them. With about three rabbits he was able to keep one running, most of the time.

 

[Ted]

Having owned about 50 diesel pickups and many heavy trucks of all makes over a period of 20 years I'll have to disagree that the Duramax is no good. Granted they did have issues with the LB7 (2001-2004) injectors (so GM warrantied them to 7 years/200K). The LLY 2004.5+ and newer versions all have a completely different head and injector setup. Variable geometry turbos are great when we want to drive a truck that performs like a car with 20K in tow and the Duramax was first to bring it to market. Considering that all 3 manufacturers have now gone to variable geometry turbos should confirm this is the direction. Every brand just like aircraft have their faults (I can list them if need be), but overall the Duramax has performed very well for me.

The VGTs (at least the early ones) had reliability issues, too, it wasn't just the injectors. Plus head gaskets, etc. The biggest reason that the manufacturers are going to them is because it helps them to meet emissions regulations. The side effect is improved response.

It sounds like you've dealt with them more than me, so it's good to hear that you're happy with them. I wouldn't buy one anyway, but then again, I don't like how that generation Chevy truck drives, so it's more of a preference than anything. My 6.5 truck was great fun to drive, even though the engine was junk.

BTW it isn't really fair to compare the Duramax to the 6.5, entirely different animals since the 6.2/6.5 was designed by Detroit Diesel not Isuzu.

I'm not following. It's another engine in a similar market, so it's like comparing to the PowerStroke or Cummins. And anyway, I was saying the 6.2/6.5 really weren't any good, either.

 

[drizzt76]

I had my 04 Jetta since 05 (bought it used with 38K, now 130K). I absolutely love every mile driving it. I average low 40 MPG and like the feeling and ride of the car. I used to work at a VW dealership, expecting to work on VW's but we lost the franchise soon after I was hired and had to work on Chrysler's instead. They are extremely well built but there are a few electrical lemons out there. I expect to my kids to drive it in 10 years with over 250K....well see.

 

[Alexb2000]

I'm not following. It's another engine in a similar market, so it's like comparing to the PowerStroke or Cummins. And anyway, I was saying the 6.2/6.5 really weren't any good, either.

I thought you were suggesting the 6.2/6.5/6.6 were a continuation of "junk" vs. "junk" from a different source.

 

[Henning]

I bought one in 2009, I'll let you know if/when it explodes.

So far, though, the performance has mirrored the numbers you and Henning have posted. The most exciting thing about a diesel, though, is that it doesn't need to shift to go up hills. That's fun to me, for some reason.

I would really like to know your experience, usage and model. It's one of the ones I've had in the running as well, though I may need something larger.

 

[kgruber]

I'd never buy a VW again. The two I've owned, 75 Rabbit was a mechanical nightmare, 96 Jetta was and IS an electrical nightmare.

Worst cars on the planet. I'll keep my Chevys.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

I would really like to know your experience, usage and model. It's one of the ones I've had in the running as well, though I may need something larger.

It's a 2008 GMC 2500. It's my general use vehicle - everything from daily driving to pulling trailers (although that's hardly its full-time job). The only reason I got it was because when GM was in the crapper two years ago they were offering some kind of absurd deal on it; it ended up being far less than the Toyota I was going to get. In other words, I just have it because it was cheaper, and I didn't have any real need for a diesel (wasn't even looking for one, turns out that I think it was a good choice, though). So it doesn't really get used to its limits.

With that in mind, so far it's been a good truck. About 35K miles on it, mileage is ~26 on level ground at about 65-70 mph. So far there have been no mechanical issues with it - really too early to tell, though. As to how it drives, handles, etc., I don't have any experience with other brands so I can't really say, but I certainly don't have any gripes with it. It does fine hauling heavy stuff around, but I just don't do that very often.

 

[Ted]

I thought you were suggesting the 6.2/6.5/6.6 were a continuation of "junk" vs. "junk" from a different source.

Ahh. No, that was not the intended comparison.

The 6.2/6.5 were always more anemic than their Ford and Dodge counterparts, and also less reliable. The Duramax was really more than anything to meet the emissions regulations (just like the Cummins and PowerStroke changes that all came out at the same time), and the side effect was including the higher power, etc.

 

[Henning]

Well, it's got a 100K mile warranty, if she esplodes it's on GMC for the next few years.

Well that in and of itself says a lot...like you don't drive it much. I put more than that on my Dodge in a year.

 

[Henning]

It's a 2008 GMC 2500. It's my general use vehicle - everything from daily driving to pulling trailers (although that's hardly its full-time job). The only reason I got it was because when GM was in the crapper two years ago they were offering some kind of absurd deal on it; it ended up being far less than the Toyota I was going to get. In other words, I just have it because it was cheaper, and I didn't have any real need for a diesel (wasn't even looking for one, turns out that I think it was a good choice, though). So it doesn't really get used to its limits.

With that in mind, so far it's been a good truck. About 35K miles on it, mileage is ~26 on level ground at about 65-70 mph. So far there have been no mechanical issues with it - really too early to tell, though. As to how it drives, handles, etc., I don't have any experience with other brands so I can't really say, but I certainly don't have any gripes with it. It does fine hauling heavy stuff around, but I just don't do that very often.

Alright, thanks, good to know. Yeah, a diesel engine is always a good choice unless it's one of the former GM/Oldsmobile derivative (5.7, 6.2, 6.5 liter) engines which GM completely ruined the diesel consumer vehicle market in the US with. I was glad when GM chose Isuzu to build a ground up new diesel engine because they've always built IMO the superior chassis, but always had the inferior diesel engine choice.

 

[flyersfan31]

Well that in and of itself says a lot...like you don't drive it much. I put more than that on my Dodge in a year.

What in the hades do you do when you're not out on the water?? Circumnavigate the world by land????

 

[Ted]

What in the hades do you do when you're not out on the water?? Circumnavigate the world by land????

September 8th, 2004 (the start of my junior year in college), I bought a brand new Dodge with 8 miles on it.

September 8th, 2005, that same Dodge had 65,389 miles on it. And that was with me being a full-time student.

It's not hard.

 

[Noah Werka]

Bought a '87 Jetta new in Dec. '86. Still going strong on the original clutch at 275+k miles. Other than normal maintence(oil & filters, brakes, tires, struts, and cv joints) there have been no major issues with it. The first 20 yrs were mostly hwy. averaging 38+ mpg. The last 4 yrs have been mostly short trips around the house and it still averages 35+, and 37+ on the longer trips. The absolutely best vehicle I have ever owned, all around.

Noah W

 

[imQ]

As a GM, Ford, Dodge, etc parts guy, I've enjoyed this thread. Lots of input. Right now, I would go for the Cummins 1st, GM 2nd , Ford last, just off the expense of parts sold to keep various fleets running. Chrysler and GM both had a year of injector problems, Ford is most of the 6.0 years. Plus Ford high pressure pumps, EGR coolers, etc. I have to agree about the 6.6 having issues for the first run, but I don't sell much of anything on them now. It may be an off shot of a longer warranty. And for the 4.0 Jeep guys, I just bought my daughter her first. A 99 old style box with 178k miles. Still runs smooth as glass. She absolutely loves it. So do I, when you look at maint. costs compared to other newer rides. And 22mpg on our only road trips so far.

 

[Henning]

And for the 4.0 Jeep guys, I just bought my daughter her first. A 99 old style box with 178k miles. Still runs smooth as glass. She absolutely loves it. So do I, when you look at maint. costs compared to other newer rides. And 22mpg on our only road trips so far.

You get 22mpg with a Jeep? That's pretty good, I've never gotten better than 17. What tires are you running?

 

[SCCutler]

You get 22mpg with a Jeep? That's pretty good, I've never gotten better than 17. What tires are you running?

I got low 20s in my Cherokee with the 4.0. Really, really good engine.

Only real trouble I ever had were leaking fuel injectors - they were Bosch, too!

 

[flyersfan31]

You get 22mpg with a Jeep? That's pretty good, I've never gotten better than 17. What tires are you running?

I'm lucky to avg 19 on roads, with stock M/S tires, and short-shifting.

 

[denverpilot]

I got low 20s in my Cherokee with the 4.0. Really, really good engine.

Only real trouble I ever had were leaking fuel injectors - they were Bosch, too!

Never got better than 18.5 but mine was an automatic transmission. Did you have the stick?

(Wife. Auto. Don't go there. LOL!)

Never had any problems at all with leaky injectors, but had the ubiquitous rear main seal leaks by the time it left here to go hang with my sister.

Those 4.0 engines were virtually bulletproof. I won't even go into how much I abused that thing.

Did have to put two radiators in it before 200K though.

 

[CJones]

I get ~13-14mpg in my 03 TJ. But I'm running 33" BFG KM2's with my stock 3.73 gears, so I kind of deserve it. I'd like to put a Ford 8.8 with 4.10's in the rear, then find a high pinion D30 with 4.10's and put in the front. That would get me a gear change plus beefier axle's in case I ever get the chance to take it offroad again...

 

[SCCutler]

Never got better than 18.5 but mine was an automatic transmission. Did you have the stick?

Nope, 4 speed auto. I did not drive on hills like you do, though.

Never had any problems at all with leaky injectors, but had the ubiquitous rear main seal leaks by the time it left here to go hang with my sister.

I guess I managed to avoid that particular item of ubiquity. Mine stayed dry (except, like I said, for Bosch injectors squirting gasoline around a hot engine compartment).

 

[imQ]

You get 22mpg with a Jeep? That's pretty good, I've never gotten better than 17. What tires are you running?

It has the stock size style all weather tires. I had a 94 XJ that got 19 if I drove it, and 16 when the wife drove it.

 

[imQ]

I got low 20s in my Cherokee with the 4.0. Really, really good engine.

Only real trouble I ever had were leaking fuel injectors - they were Bosch, too!

Never sold many injectors, but lots of the injector reseal kits. We still stock 5 or so. They spike in sales after every extremely cold snap, and the first times it gets near the 100 degree mark. And yes, the rear main is leaking, for now. About a $200 fix for that and the oil filter adapter orings.

 

[CJones]

Rachel's daily driver is a 99 Passat 2.0L 5-speed manual with 223,000 miles. Since we bought it in 2006 with 96,000 miles, I have replaced both CV Shafts ($200), all front control arms and swaybar links ($400), timing belt, water pump, thermostat, plugs, valve cover seals ($300), brake pads all-around (??<$100). After doing the timing belt work, etc., we drove it 5hrs to Alabama and got 30mpg, and it wasn't all interstate. Rachel consistently gets 25+mpg on her tooling around and between towns, as she commutes quite a bit for her work. Since the car is paid off, when I do work on it, I say for every $300 worth of maintenance we need to get another month of service out of it. I think I am well ahead of the curve right now.

We plan to get her something a bit bigger and even more dependable later this year, and I will park the Jeep and start driving the Passat to work until the wheels fall off. That'll cut my gas costs in half, which will put $100/month toward her car payment.

Well, it finally happened. I'm afraid Rachel's car (99 Passat with 230k miles) may have bit the dust. She had a flat yesterday and someone (thankfully) stopped to help her change it out. When they got it jacked up, they noticed a huge puddle of oil under the car. She got it towed home, and it continued to puke oil out just sitting on the flatbed tow truck. I crawled under it with a flashlight this morning and I can't find the source of the leak. If I can't obviously see it, it probably means having to pull the engine to repair it, which is more work than I want to put into a 230k mile vehicle that already has some other annoying issues.

When I said that we would drive that car "until the wheels fall off", I didn't expect it to actually happen. I guess we're car shopping this week.

 

[BiffJ]

We've got a 2006 Jetta TDI with 93,000 miles on it. I got it a little over 2 years ago with 29,000 on it so we've run it down the road a bit....We use it for all the long distance trips like home to New Mexico for Christmas or back to the wifes family home in Maine for 4th of july. We've averaged over 43mpg for all our driving and on most road trips have seen 46-49mpg with regularity. 550 miles between fill-ups is normal and we've done a few over 600. We made a couple trips where measured mileage was over 50 mpg.
Maintainence has been more than reasonable with oil changes every 5K miles and no headaches to speak of. We're looking at having timing belts changed soon with a price tag of $11-1200 for the belts, water pump and all the pulleys. As for the electrical and mechanicals not being user friendly (to work on) the same is pretty much true of all the gas powered cars out there now. If you don't have a computer to talk to your car you can't really do anything with it anymore. Despite being a licensed A&P and former race car mechanic I don't work on any of my cars.

My Ford powerstroke had over 235,000 miles on it when I sold it. I had to replace the waterpump around 125K and the glow plugs at around 150K but that was it for maintainence. I'd say we've done pretty well with our diesels and made up for any cost differences with fuel savings. I'd have to say that while it may cost more to work on the diesel engine it is less likely to need work than the gas engine will...


Frank

 

[weilke]

Make sure whoever changes your timing belt does this for a living and it's not the first job some junior wrench-monkey at the VW shop gets sent out to do. It's apparently not that trivial a job and more than one engine has been done in by poor workmanship. Oh, and you are changing your oil too often. It's 10k per the book (the same engine in europe when equipped with an oil sensor is approved for 18k OCIs).

 

[CJones]

We're looking at having timing belts changed soon with a price tag of $11-1200 for the belts, water pump and all the pulleys.

Frank

Shop around - you can find it cheaper than that. I did the timing belt, water pump, thermostat, valve cover seals, and plugs for $300 in parts. If I had a shop set up for doing this stuff, and if it hadn't been my first time wrenching on the VW, I could have done it in 1 day from beginning to end.