Departing non-towered airport inside a class D airspace

Salty

Salty

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Salty
Never ran into this one before so haven't really thought about it. Here's what I would do based on my understanding, let me know if I'm wrong, or if there's a better way.

The assumption for this scenario is that you can hear and be heard by the D tower on the ground.

I would do a normal run-up and hold short of runway and contact the D tower and inform them of my intentions. As I understand it I do not need a TO clearance from them, I just need them to respond to me. (2-way comm) I'll have listened to the tower for awhile and know what's out there and be flying VFR, so same as departing any other non-towered airport really.
 
§91.129 Operations in Class D airspace.
...
(2) Departing flight. Each person—
...
(ii) From a satellite airport without an operating control tower, must establish and maintain two-way radio communications with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area as soon as practicable after departing.
 
I'm aware of the reg. I quoted the relevant portion of it. I'm asking more about the practical aspect when the tower can be reached from the ground.
 
As a controller, I'd like to be notified as soon as possible of an aircraft departing a satellite field as there would be more time to deconflict. So from a practical standpoint, if you're able to talk to them prior to departure then do so.
 
Hi.

Salty said:
The assumption for this scenario is that you can hear and be heard by the D tower on the ground.
Click to expand...

The best option, typically, is to let them know as soon as you can contact them.
If you do call them on the ground make sure they know, you tell them, that you are not in a location where they can see you and they can expect to see you after XX minutes. But if you do call them on the ground make sure the time they expect to see you is accurate, don' spend a lot of time on the ground, before you TO, otherwise just call them right after you lift off.
 
Salty said:
I'm aware of the reg. I quoted the relevant portion of it. I'm asking more about the practical aspect when the tower can be reached from the ground.
Click to expand...
dmspilot said:
§91.129 Operations in Class D airspace.
...
(2) Departing flight. Each person—
...
(ii) From a satellite airport without an operating control tower, must establish and maintain two-way radio communications with the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area as soon as practicable after departing.
Click to expand...

Yup, as soon as practicable. Sometimes that don't cut it and they make a Part 93 Special Air Traffic Rule requiring establishing communication first. KVUO is an example of this.
 
Salty said:
I'm aware of the reg. I quoted the relevant portion of it. I'm asking more about the practical aspect when the tower can be reached from the ground.
Click to expand...

Depends on the Tower. Give it a try. If they snarl at you, maybe you should not do it again.
 
luvflyin said:
Depends on the Tower. Give it a try. If they snarl at you, maybe you should not do it again.
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Why would they snarl at me if I'm in their airspace?
 
bluesideup said:
Hi.



The best option, typically, is to let them know as soon as you can contact them.
If you do call them on the ground make sure they know, you tell them, that you are not in a location where they can see you and they can expect to see you after XX minutes. But if you do call them on the ground make sure the time they expect to see you is accurate, don' spend a lot of time on the ground, before you TO, otherwise just call them right after you lift off.
Click to expand...

I dunno about right at lift off. There may be stuff going on that you should stay on the CTAF for a bit.
 
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Timbeck2 said:
Because we are typing a witty response on POA or watching YouTube videos and can't be bothered by airplanes.
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By the way I'll be in Tucson the week of July 4, maybe we can get together.
 
luvflyin said:
I dunno about right at lift off. There may be stuff going that you should stay on the CTAF for a bit.
Click to expand...
That's a good point I hadn't considered. Exactly why I started this thread.
 
Salty said:
Why would they snarl at me if I'm in their airspace?
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Does snarling satisfy the requirement for 2-way radio communication?

On a more practical note, what about phoning the tower prior to departure, if you can't reach them by radio while you're on the ground.
 
I'm easily confused, so ...

1. Contact Ground Control with your intentions. They'll get back to you with something like "Bugsmasher123, taxi to runway 2 via alpha."
2. You taxi to runway 2, do your runup, change to Tower frequency and let them know you're ready.
3. 99.999% of the time they'll give the ok for takeoff or tell you to hold short for incoming traffic. I've never had anything different happen. But as long as you have communication with them (to and from them) you're good to go.

Is there a scenario being proposed here that differs from that, or what am I missing? (this is why so few people in real life engage me in conversation)
 
Half Fast said:
Does snarling satisfy the requirement for 2-way radio communication?

On a more practical note, what about phoning the tower prior to departure, if you can't reach them by radio while you're on the ground.
Click to expand...

1. it does
2. I've had to do that before when I lost comms down in Springfield, MO. Many years ago, I was green and it showed. They were incredibly gentle with me. Told me what to do (wait for the green light), had the runway designated over the phone. It was golden, really. People complain about controllers, and I've had my share of rude ones. But it's ones like these guys that make up for a dozen rude encounters.
 
Gerhardt said:
I'm easily confused, so ...

1. Contact Ground Control with your intentions. They'll get back to you with something like "Bugsmasher123, taxi to runway 2 via alpha."
2. You taxi to runway 2, do your runup, change to Tower frequency and let them know you're ready.
3. 99.999% of the time they'll give the ok for takeoff or tell you to hold short for incoming traffic. I've never had anything different happen. But as long as you have communication with them (to and from them) you're good to go.

Is there a scenario being proposed here that differs from that, or what am I missing? (this is why so few people in real life engage me in conversation)
Click to expand...
Yeah. Your scenario is when you're AT the D airport. Mine is when you are NOT at the D airport. I'm sure I would get snarled at if I contacted ground for the D airport and I'm not there.
 
Could you provide the airport in question?
 
Ryanb said:
Could you provide the airport in question?
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I don't have a specific airport in mind. I can try to find one that would fit the description though.
 
Here's one. Dallas Airpark inside the Addison Delta.

Screen Shot 2019-06-20 at 4.22.36 PM.png
 
c5Xya.png
 
Half Fast said:
Does snarling satisfy the requirement for 2-way radio communication?

On a more practical note, what about phoning the tower prior to departure, if you can't reach them by radio while you're on the ground.
Click to expand...

Lol. Only if you snarl back:D
 
I've had the same question about the real-world steps, particularly at KCKV near Ft. Campbell.

upload_2019-6-20_16-8-46.png

The D airspace is military, and I don't want to get shot at. :D
 
Salty said:
Yeah. Your scenario is when you're AT the D airport. Mine is when you are NOT at the D airport. I'm sure I would get snarled at if I contacted ground for the D airport and I'm not there.
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That’s embarrassing - I just now paid attention to the thread title. Sorry about that. Yes, I recall one from several years ago. I communicated with the tower to let them know my intentions and it was no problem.
 
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