Denied entry into class Delta

BigBadLou

BigBadLou

Final Approach
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Lou
I flew to see a friend on Saturday and on the way back to my towered home field, I squeezed in my tail number on the radio (the tower controller was busy as can be with multiple students, plenty inbound aircraft and some outbound too) just to hear back "XYZ, stay clear of the Delta airspace".
It was a gorgeous day to fly so everyone and their brother were flying.
This denial did not surprise me but I realized that it was the first time I have ever been denied access to any airspace. :)

We didn't mind (I never mind flying a little longer), we circled the coutryside, looking for my buddy's Double-Dog ranch (didn't find it) and a few minutes later, "the guy" called my tail number, gave me a squawk and squeezed me in for an arrival.

This is NOT a rant or a complaint. Merely a fun story and a heads up that it might happen to the unsuspecting pilot.
Again, we didn't mind, it was the perfect day to fly so we had some more fun in the air.
But this is one of the reasons why the FAA mandates a 30-minute fuel reserve for daytime and a 45-minute reserve for nighttime. ;)
 
Happens occasionally at the airport I flight instruct at. Lots student pilots mixed in with lots of charter operations makes the airspace very busy. The control tower is also a training tower so things can get backed up quite a bit.
 
I've heard this on the radio when people request touch and goes, but I've never heard it when someone was requesting a full stop. It's definitely never happened to me. Very interesting!
 
Had it happen to me as a student pilot with Trenton, NJ (KTTN). We did turns around a point until they acknowledged us.
 
I heard it one time when our tower was fairly busy and a pilot (student?) with an accent was confused, and couldn't tell tell the controller which direction he was approaching from.
 
It's happened to me a couple of times at the local class C. No issues, they usually get back to me in a few minutes.
 
Good point. We tend to expect no delay on arrival, but it does happen sometimes. In your case it wasn't surprising given it being a busy day, but I've gotten delayed a couple of times waiting on IFR aircraft released from a non-towered field. Do a couple of turns in the hold and then go in once the aircraft has departed. Sometimes you also get delayed waiting for an aircraft ahead of you to land and cancel.
 
I've nearer heard of denying anyone entry here but I have been doing laps in the pattern while the controller was overloaded.

It was actually pretty cool because she was squeezing in eight or so V22 osprey and I was attempting to touch & goes between each V22 landing. I wish I had a cameraman that day.
 
It's happened to me a few times as well. Popping off a satellite airport to fly over to another satellite, wanting to transition the airspace. They'll either say to remain clear of the Charlie or they'll give a heading until they could take me.
 
Never denied anything at Delta or Charlie...I've even asked the local D tower, and been giving the green light, to loiter at pattern altitude right on the downwind doing circles (of course this was on a quiet day) so my girlfriend could take pictures of her parent's house.

Now asking to simply transition the Detroit Bravo? I get denied that all the time...and when they do allow you to transition, they vector you soooooo far out over Lake Erie, that I've decided to stop asking and just fly the crowded VFR corridor under the Bravo.
 
You will hear it when a mix of traffic are being queued on approach and many are on hold to takeoff. You may also hear restrictions on practice pattern/option, IFR approach/MAP and ground clearances to leave the ramp or runup and hold short at a runway.
 
Was it something you said?
 
Zeldman said:
Are you sure your mouth wash was working that day..??? :lol::lol::lol:
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No, but this did happen one night on our way back in on a PPL training flight in the practice area. I was well outside the outer C ring, and made my initial call. I didn't have information yet, but figured I had plenty of time. Female controller gives me a right turn to a reciprocal heading, says she will call my next turn. She flies us 5nm away from the airport then says "That will teach you to get ATIS before your initial callup" OOOOOKaaaaaay. So I get ATIS/info, and she turns us back around.

On the ride in, I ask my instructor, who had just retired as a controller at the same airport, what that was all about. CFI replied, "She's a (female dog)". I reply, "Maybe she just had a hard day". His reply, "No, Bill, she's just a (female dog)".

Every time I flew for a long while after that, I would be sure to be strictly by the book when I heard her (very distinctive) voice on frequency. And yes, she would bust otherr guy's stones when she could. Woof!
 
I thought the proper terminology was "aircraft calling" remain outside of Delta. If they read back your tail number (that establishes 2-way communication) I thought that guaranteed clearance into Delta.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Female controller gives me a right turn to a reciprocal heading, says she will call my next turn. She flies us 5nm away from the airport then says "That will teach you to get ATIS before your initial callup" OOOOOKaaaaaay. So I get ATIS/info, and she turns us back around.
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That'd definitely be something I'd report to the FAA...
 
Katamarino said:
That'd definitely be something I'd report to the FAA...
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What did I know at the time? Just a student who took his lumps. Also, the plane was a club plane based at that airport, didn't want to make things hard for us.
 
Wasn't criticizing you, just commenting in general. Very unprofessional of the controller.
 
Rockymountain said:
I thought the proper terminology was "aircraft calling" remain outside of Delta. If they read back your tail number (that establishes 2-way communication) I thought that guaranteed clearance into Delta.
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^ This. If they acknowledge your tail number in a Delta, that's all you need for clearance. Don't even need a squawk code actually. Though I wouldn't want to push my luck if they goofed, said my tail number and said remain clear. Can't even imagine that conversation with the FAA...

I've been denied into airspace quite frequently down here in FL. Always get a "aircraft calling approach, stay clear of class charlie and bravo airspace" Or a "call me back in 15 minutes", etc...You get used to it heh.

In fact if I flight plan like I'm going to get denied into all Delta, Charlie and Bravo airspaces, that way when I get cleared I'm always pleasantly surprised :).
 
Rockymountain said:
I thought the proper terminology was "aircraft calling" remain outside of Delta. If they read back your tail number (that establishes 2-way communication) I thought that guaranteed clearance into Delta.
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That. If u hear ur tail number, it's 2 way comm. But again if they say stay clear, I guess u stay clear
tawood said:
Never denied anything at Delta or Charlie...I've even asked the local D tower, and been giving the green light, to loiter at pattern altitude right on the downwind doing circles (of course this was on a quiet day) so my girlfriend could take pictures of her parent's house.

Now asking to simply transition the Detroit Bravo? I get denied that all the time...and when they do allow you to transition, they vector you soooooo far out over Lake Erie, that I've decided to stop asking and just fly the crowded VFR corridor under the Bravo.
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Flying into Chino (Class D), I was told to "Circle outside our airspace and call me back in 5 minutes." Just too busy with flight school ops that day, I guess.
 
Reading back your tail number and saying "standby" isn't the same as reading back your tail number and saying "remain clear of the class D."

As far as the female controller, I think know the one (CHA). They've got a new female student there as well.
 
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Used to happen to me often flying into Daytona Beach's class C. One more than one occasion my instructor and I got real snarky and flew circles JUST outside their airspace (very easy to do with a GPS). In hindsight, probably not the most considerate thing to do, but what are ya gonna do?
 
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When I was training for PPC at BJC it would get a little busy at times, mostly Saturday mornings. Lots of helo and airplane training at BJC and nearby pilot controlled fields. I think once or twice I heard "remain clear"....and then there was one time they shoulda said it but didn't. I was told to follow a Cessna on downwind and turned maybe a quarter mile (or closer) behind a Mooney. Told the tower I didn't have the Cessna in sight but I did have the Mooney. Then I added that I saw the Cessna in front of the Mooney. Tower kept their cool but did have a pointed question for the Mooney about what in the heck they were doing...the right seat ballast didn't say much...
 
Controllers can get overwhelmed I guess, this Saturday I was up in pattern and heard a similar call sign, I was under th3 impression they will tell me for whole tail number or let me know there is another similar tail number up there. I was 526S and the other one was 256S... confused the hell out of me when they told me to turn final and then said 56S clear to land runway 18. I had to call just to clarify who they are talking to

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It happens on occasion at KDTO.

I have never had it happen when I am on FF or an IFR flight plan.
 
BigBadLou said:
I flew to see a friend on Saturday and on the way back to my towered home field, I squeezed in my tail number on the radio (the tower controller was busy as can be with multiple students, plenty inbound aircraft and some outbound too) just to hear back "XYZ, stay clear of the Delta airspace".
It was a gorgeous day to fly so everyone and their brother were flying.
This denial did not surprise me but I realized that it was the first time I have ever been denied access to any airspace. :)

We didn't mind (I never mind flying a little longer), we circled the coutryside, looking for my buddy's Double-Dog ranch (didn't find it) and a few minutes later, "the guy" called my tail number, gave me a squawk and squeezed me in for an arrival.

This is NOT a rant or a complaint. Merely a fun story and a heads up that it might happen to the unsuspecting pilot.
Again, we didn't mind, it was the perfect day to fly so we had some more fun in the air.
But this is one of the reasons why the FAA mandates a 30-minute fuel reserve for daytime and a 45-minute reserve for nighttime. ;)
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I have never heard of Class D giving squawk code for entry. Must be a Big Class D!!!!
 
Back when I was a slightly younger PPL I was flying back to the delta airport (which also had a float plane ramp) in a straight float VFR floatplane, as we approached the delta the field went IFR due to like a 900' ceiling or something


Tower said "the field is IFR, state intentions", well instead of asking for a SVFR I decided to go the other route, I landed on the lake just outside their delta and step taxied all the way to the ramp, took some time, but since I was paying tach hour it actually worked out quite well since I was building hours lol.
 
Caramon13 said:
^ This. If they acknowledge your tail number in a Delta, that's all you need for clearance.
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Wrong. "This" is wrong. If they say call sign stand by. Then you can enter. Call sign remain clear, as stated, come on in if you'd rather let the faa (fsdo) keep your license than your wallet.
 
WannFly said:
I guess u stay clear
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Again, if you value your cert in your wallet, that's an ATC control instruction. You enter, they choose to violate, you're in trouble. This from the entire worlds friendliest GA loving ATC'er.
 
It's happens especially at popular airports on a nice day. That's why I like to file IFR if I know it's going to be nuts. Being IFR is usually like having a VIP pass when you get the the airport. All the VFR guys have to stand aside while the tower opens up the velvet rope around the Delta to let you in :).
 
Bill Jennings said:
No, but this did happen one night on our way back in on a PPL training flight in the practice area. I was well outside the outer C ring, and made my initial call. I didn't have information yet, but figured I had plenty of time. Female controller gives me a right turn to a reciprocal heading, says she will call my next turn. She flies us 5nm away from the airport then says "That will teach you to get ATIS before your initial callup" OOOOOKaaaaaay. So I get ATIS/info, and she turns us back around.

On the ride in, I ask my instructor, who had just retired as a controller at the same airport, what that was all about. CFI replied, "She's a (female dog)". I reply, "Maybe she just had a hard day". His reply, "No, Bill, she's just a (female dog)".

Every time I flew for a long while after that, I would be sure to be strictly by the book when I heard her (very distinctive) voice on frequency. And yes, she would bust otherr guy's stones when she could. Woof!
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If this happened circa 2011, I believe I know of the controller you're referring to. She's been gone for probably 4 years now, but as Velocity mentioned, there are a couple of new female controllers that have started in the past 6 months or so.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I think that KDPA might have issued me a code once. Can't recall for sure.
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I hear KHPN is a Class D that operates like a Class C and requires you to contact New York Approach and get on a code.
 
I find it confusing that people would want to enter busy airspace with the comments I've read such as "if ATC reads back your call sign then you can enter."

I'm perfectly happy holding outside until its safe(r) to fly into that airspace. In my opinion, those pilots who use the "well, they talked to me so its okay if I fly into their airspace" need a situational awareness wake-up (close) call.
 
MassPilot said:
I hear KHPN is a Class D that operates like a Class C and requires you to contact New York Approach and get on a code.
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Yes, flew there this summer and can confirm. It's sort of a local secret since you won't find this printed anywhere or even mentioned in the ATIS but that's the practice. You can call up the tower directly and they will give you a code and tag you up themselves if you didn't get handed off by approach.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I think that KDPA might have issued me a code once. Can't recall for sure.
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I am in class d, I always get a squawk code when I am not flying in the pattern

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