Demographics Can't Be Beat

Jay Honeck

Jay Honeck

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Ingleside, TX
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Jay Honeck
I was recently in a long discussion with the guys at the airport. As always, it seems, the conversation drifted into the fate of GA.

We looked around the room. Behind each glass of scotch sat a man whose age ranged from 57 (me) to 83. The average age was 68+. We represented the most active pilots on the field, by far.

As the "young guy" in the room, I came to the chilling realization that none of these guys would be flying in 2026 -- just ten years hence. All of their airplanes and hangars would be hitting the market almost simultaneously, and Mary and I would be holding court at a ghost town airport.

Things got pretty quiet after that. :(

I sure hope GA's tailspin can be corrected soon.
 
This was incredibly apparent at OSH. Four of us at age 20 were by far the youngest people in the North 40 not accompanied by a parent.

I will say many of the people in the North 40 were total pricks. Very very cliquey and one guy (maybe 75 at the youngest) had the audacity to say "youre a pilot? Youre just a rich prick" I'd said 2 words to the man before he said that.

I won't be back to OSH anytime soon.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
This was incredibly apparent at OSH. Four of us at age 20 were by far the youngest people in the North 40 not accompanied by a parent.

I will say many of the people in the North 40 were total pricks. Very very cliquey and one guy (maybe 75 at the youngest) had the audacity to say "youre a pilot? Youre just a rich prick" I'd said 2 words to the man before he said that.

I won't be back to OSH anytime soon.
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That is a sad, sad story. I'm sorry you didn't find your way to our campsite, where you would have been welcomed with coffee (before noon), beer (after noon), a comfy chair, and a bunch of hangar lying.

Please don't judge OSH by the behavior of some addled old men. It is a little piece of heaven that shan't be ruined by such people.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Please don't judge OSH by the behavior of some addled old men. It is a little piece of heaven that shan't be ruined by such people.
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Yeah, I didn't even know you were on the field, or I would have done my utmost to make you feel welcome. I am really saddened to hear that.

But remember, even in the best crowd you can find some bad apples. You got lucky and found the ****ole. Don't judge the rest of us by him.
 
Young folks tend not to drink scotch.... :yes:

But, yeah, the point is well made.
 
steingar said:
But remember, even in the best crowd you can find some bad apples. You got lucky and found the ****ole. Don't judge the rest of us by him.
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Unfortunately it wasn't just him. We got parked pretty much in the middle of the Mooney mass arrival and no one would talk to us no matter how much we tried.

Ill probably be back when I own a plane. I really enjoyed the exhibition hangars and it made me even more excited about ownership.

Not to sound callous but as the older people get out of aviation, used planes will be much cheaper as the supply skyrockets. It planes get cheaper it may entice young people back into aviation... Perhaps it's cyclical? :confused:
 
Also keep in mind OSH is a tuff thing to pull off when you young and a working professional. Even with the large amount of time I have off it would be tuff to swing and spend enough time for it to be worth it.

For OLDER retired folks, they got nothing but spare time, so it's no shock to me that OSH has older folks.

I'm on a few flying groups on Facebook and meetup, and I've seen a decent amount of younger pilots.

Just your demo, EAA meeting or a flyin in a work day, probably older folks, meetup group or Facebook group or flyin to a backcountry camping outing, younger turnout.

Don't think the sky is falling.
 
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Oh, don't worry.....there are plenty more 50 year old's out there.

this phenomena has been occurring since the boom of the 80's.....
 
What James said. I was able to do OSH because I'm a college student and its in the summer.

My next fly in will be the High-Sierra fly-in :D
 
Jay Honeck said:
I was recently in a long discussion with the guys at the airport. As always, it seems, the conversation drifted into the fate of GA.

We looked around the room. Behind each glass of scotch sat a man whose age ranged from 57 (me) to 83. The average age was 68+. We represented the most active pilots on the field, by far.
Click to expand...

Could the reason be that us "old-timers" like to actually talk face-to-face?

I'd think that if you averaged the age of any FagBook pilot group, you'd come up with a very very low number. The "kids" don't like to socialize, hang out and share hangar stories in person. That is not how the new generations do it. FagBook is the new fad and that's where you'll find young pilots. (as James pointed out) These kids socialize via keyboards or iPhone screens.

That's just my take on it.

Now, Jay, make me an offer I cannot refuse (no, I do not own any race horses) and I'll fly the wife down to the beach and talk your ear off about airplanes. :D
 
BigBadLou said:
Could the reason be that us "old-timers" like to actually talk face-to-face?

I'd think that if you averaged the age of any FagBook pilot group, you'd come up with a very very low number. The "kids" don't like to socialize, hang out and share hangar stories in person. That is not how the new generations do it. FagBook is the new fad and that's where you'll find young pilots. (as James pointed out) These kids socialize via keyboards or iPhone screens.

That's just my take on it.

Now, Jay, make me an offer I cannot refuse (no, I do not own any race horses) and I'll fly the wife down to the beach and talk your ear off about airplanes. :D
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Nah

I've seen the busy Facebook groups having fly ins with huge turn outs, one group even buys a booth at the local aviation shows.

The meetup groups obviously are designed for face to face meetings.

Lots of the people I've seen on these groups are mid 20s all the way over the hill ;)

Average was probably like mid 30ish, working pros, I hardly would insult that.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Unfortunately it wasn't just him. We got parked pretty much in the middle of the Mooney mass arrival and no one would talk to us no matter how much we tried.
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Mooniacs are a bit cliquish by nature, and the Mooney Caravan folks have been doing their thing for awhile, so I can see how you could have been creeped out. Truth is I got that way first POA thingie to which I ever went.

Like I said, had we known.
 
Of COURSE the guys sitting around the airport shooting the breeze are older. They're retired, or at the least have kids out of the house. The younger people aren't at the airport chatting because instead, they're at home with their family and kids. Or pursuing a career. Or starting a business. Or, yes, playing XBox I suppose, but I think that's a little overhyped as a reason for anything.

As a part-time CFI, I'm out at the airport a lot. But if I wasn't a CFI, I would only be out there very seldom. Not because I don't love aviation, but just because there are a ton of competing demands for my time. "Hangar flying", while enjoyable and something I'd like to do more, just isn't a high priority - I'd rather spend more time with my wife and daughter. If I'm going to be away from them for numerous hours/week I want it to be doing something I'm at least getting paid to do. So I'm unlikely to just show up at the airport to chat, whether I'd like to or not. I suspect once our daughter is out of the house I will hang out at the airport. But by then I'll be at least 52 and would fit right in the stated demographic myself.

I wonder if, 30 years ago, the average age of people who hangar flew at the airport on a lazy Sunday afternoon was really any different?
 
As a youngish guy my path to flying was a young eagles flight which I loved followed by the crushing realization it was too expensive for me. A few people (family) said if its something I really wanted to do I'd find a way. Well thats BS I got a job 2 weeks after my 16th birthday working 28 hours a week I made 515 an hour. Car insurance on my 10+ year old mistubishi was almost 200 bucks, 30 for cell phone, plus paying the parents 200 a month for the 2500 they fronted me for my first car. Got the car paid off then the clutch went out at 240,000 miles so there went my savings, its started smoking badly and finally the headgasket went at 255,000 so bought a newer car(only 140,000 on the Odo!). Got a better job at target 8.35 an hour! started college economy went downhill hours were cut and gas got high. Some weeks I'd break open granola bar packages at work and steal them from the backroom cause I couldn't even afford a can of soup for lunch at work. During this time I checked with the 2 local FBO's and no job ever opened up no.
Finally graduated college started making the big bucks (35,000!) got debt paid off got married finally got to dual income and enough to get my license at 27 years old. and honestly I can see where even those that want to fly and finally get the money to don't. You graduate get paid then its time to buy a house then the wife wants kids and next thing their 50 years old kids gone and 3 promotions into their career before they finally decide to do it if at all.

If you want younger people to fly your gonna have to "pay" for it. I went to school with kids who worked insane hours, on campus for class 25 hours a week working 32 hours a week studying in off time. No one I hung with could remotely afford to drop a years tuition just to fly.

I love GA I love seeing people get excited to fly and if my career change gets rolling I'll get my CFI and try to get some deserving people their license. Yeah some might take advantage of my "giving" them a license and never fly afterwards but if I can get a few younger people involved maybe down the line they'll be active in a club maybe after college they'll join into a partnership on that cirrus or diamond. Maybe they'll say hey I love this and go fly for the airlines and maybe pay it forward to the next generation.
I'm not gonna be like the old guard and say I had to pay for my college and sacrifice buying a house, and pulled myself up from my bootstraps uphill both ways in the snow so if you want it "you'll find a way"

The only cost to me will be some Avgas and some weekends teaching some17 yr old highschool kid who always wanted to fly. If even 1% of pilots "sponsored a kid/young adult" each year thats what 5,000 in new blood for our hobby. Maybe start a club and build a RV12 and say hey if you work each saturday from now to finish we'll teach you to fly for free. We cant say oh your license cost 7-10 grand and then expect young people to go for it when thats at least half a years salary to kids trying to put themselves through school or just starting out in the job market.
 
Perhaps I'm being intentionally provocative here, but when my wife and I are done with our airplanes, I don't give a rat's patoot if there are other people to fly them. It just doesn't matter.

I started flying about the same time lots of folks started having kids. In the profession I orignally started out in, I knew I could either support kids OR flying. I made my choice early and have had fun with it for over 45 years. Most of that time, I have owned at least one airplane...currently two.

I have flown literally hundreds of airplane rides in my career from babies to folks in their 80's, and helped anyone I could who had an interest in the hobby/business.

Whether kids are lining up to replace me in the pilot pool is immaterial to me.

Or....maybe I just woke up grumpy today :rolleyes:

Jim
 
I see a lot of young guys getting lessons at the local FBO. I don't know where they go after they get their license. Not too many young guys with their own plane, but there are a few.
 
BigBadLou said:
Could the reason be that us "old-timers" like to actually talk face-to-face?

I'd think that if you averaged the age of any FagBook pilot group, you'd come up with a very very low number. The "kids" don't like to socialize, hang out and share hangar stories in person. That is not how the new generations do it. FagBook is the new fad and that's where you'll find young pilots. (as James pointed out) These kids socialize via keyboards or iPhone screens.

That's just my take on it.

Now, Jay, make me an offer I cannot refuse (no, I do not own any race horses) and I'll fly the wife down to the beach and talk your ear off about airplanes. :D
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Keeping it civil AND classy...You sir, are a true gentleman.
 
And perhaps a little insecure with his own sexuality :dunno:
 
James331 said:
And perhaps a little insecure with his own sexuality :dunno:
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You picked up on all those subtleties from some half-formed, disjointed fragment of a sentence? You've got talent, my friend.

scottfromboston said:
We found one of the *******s.

I'll go flying. Those types can keep their EAA breakfasts.
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Not sure I'm following you...please elaborate.
 
Being an old guy,I can say ,some of the older pilots don't have the patience to deal with younger pilots. If your in an aviation club. You have to reach out to younger pilots,and bring them in the fold. Start by teaching them the way to drink good scotch ,while hangar flying.
 
vkhosid said:
You picked up on all those subtleties from some half-formed, disjointed fragment of a sentence? You've got talent, my friend.



Not sure I'm following you...please elaborate.
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The sort of classless talk you were pointing out seems to be common amongst the EAA crowds I've sat with. No thanks. Maybe I'm just antisocial, perhaps too much time on (offensive epithet)-book.
 
frfly172 said:
Being an old guy,I can say ,some of the older pilots don't have the patience to deal with younger pilots. If your in an aviation club. You have to reach out to younger pilots,and bring them in the fold. Start by teaching them the way to drink good scotch ,while hangar flying.
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I'd argue that the "reaching out" part would be actively recruiting younger pilots/members/whatever. But but mere act of being friendly would go a long way to helping those that are younger feel included.

I don't know many old pilots. Or young ones, for that matter. As a matter of fact, within my circle of friends, i'm the only one with a license. So, I cant speak from first-hand experience, however, based on the post of the guy that was called a prick at OSH, the guy certainly wasn't doing GA any favors with anyone, let along the younger crowd.
 
scottfromboston said:
The sort of classless talk you were pointing out seems to be common amongst the EAA crowds I've sat with. No thanks. Maybe I'm just antisocial, perhaps too much time on (offensive epithet)-book.
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Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. The row of asterisks really hid the meaning of your post.
 
vkhosid said:
You picked up on all those subtleties from some half-formed, disjointed fragment of a sentence? You've got talent, my friend.



Not sure I'm following you...please elaborate.
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Indeed I did.

This topic had nothing to do with homosexuality, yet you used the word f@g multiple times in one single paragraph.

I've lived around people who were super straight, normal folks and quite a few gay people when I lived in areas of CA, in my experience people who use derogatory homosexual remakes and spout off about being straight like its a badge of honor often have a little homosexual streak and are scared to death of it.

Personally I don't care, I'm just saying you might many to tone down the f@g this and f@g that thing a little, it's telling and not in a way you probably are comfortable with.
 
James331 said:
Indeed I did.

This topic had nothing to do with homosexuality, yet you used the word f@g multiple times in one single paragraph.

I've lived around people who were super straight, normal folks and quite a few gay people when I lived in areas of CA, in my experience people who use derogatory homosexual remakes and spout off about being straight like its a badge of honor often have a little homosexual streak and are scared to death of it.

Personally I don't care, I'm just saying you might many to tone down the f@g this and f@g that thing a little, it's telling and not in a way you probably are comfortable with.
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Homie, relax....I was simply quoting one of our fine members on POA...all I did was bold certain parts of his verbiage.
 
frfly172 said:
Being an old guy,I can say ,some of the older pilots don't have the patience to deal with younger pilots. If your in an aviation club. You have to reach out to younger pilots,and bring them in the fold. Start by teaching them the way to drink good scotch ,while hangar flying.
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They should be old enough to know better.

Some of those younger folks could probably teach some of the older guys a thing or two about aviation and maybe even scotch ;)

People are people, just let talk to everyone respectfully, you never really know who might be someone who has much to share, young and old alike.
 
vkhosid said:
Homie, relax....I was simply quoting one of our fine members on POA...all I did was bold certain parts of his verbiage.
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No worries, it doesn't effect me one way or another so it'll all good, just was making a observation.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
This was incredibly apparent at OSH. Four of us at age 20 were by far the youngest people in the North 40 not accompanied by a parent.

I will say many of the people in the North 40 were total pricks. Very very cliquey and one guy (maybe 75 at the youngest) had the audacity to say "youre a pilot? Youre just a rich prick" I'd said 2 words to the man before he said that.

I won't be back to OSH anytime soon.
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I've never been to OSH, but is that the warbird section?

Seems the warbird community is often it's own worst enemy when it comes to preservation. There are still a lot of good people, but too many self righteous a-holes that drive people away. Money does strange things to people....
 
I turned 50 last year. I got my PPC at 49. I would not trade anything for what I have accomplished and fulfilled a lifelong dream. It was worth every penny I spent. However, If I had known then what I know now, I may not have done it. I haven't been up since the middle of October and I don't know when, if ever, I will go again. I absolutely love to fly, I really do, but I do not at all like what I have to do to get the wheels up. The culture, the airport politics, the backstabbing and petty squabbles etc. cant be avoided. I hope my desire grows again to the point that it overcomes my disdain for the politics. And, no, I really don't have other options.
 
mikeinbama said:
I turned 50 last year. I got my PPC at 49. I would not trade anything for what I have accomplished and fulfilled a lifelong dream. It was worth every penny I spent. However, If I had known then what I know now, I may not have done it. I haven't been up since the middle of October and I don't know when, if ever, I will go again. I absolutely love to fly, I really do, but I do not at all like what I have to do to get the wheels up. The culture, the airport politics, the backstabbing and petty squabbles etc. cant be avoided. I hope my desire grows again to the point that it overcomes my disdain for the politics. And, no, I really don't have other options.
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Didn't you buy your own plane, Mike?
 
Fearless Tower said:
I've never been to OSH, but is that the warbird section?

Seems the warbird community is often it's own worst enemy when it comes to preservation. There are still a lot of good people, but too many self righteous a-holes that drive people away. Money does strange things to people....
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Nope, I didn't get to meet anyone from warbirds, I was just in GA camping.

mikeinbama said:
The culture, the airport politics, the backstabbing and petty squabbles etc. cant be avoided. I hope my desire grows again to the point that it overcomes my disdain for the politics. And, no, I really don't have other options.
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At my airport there's a well respected older female pilot that is strongly opinionated and a part of CAP. She told me that I'm unequivocally going to be a terrible pilot and die all because I did my CPL before my IR because "private teaches you to look outside, instrument inside, commercial outside" like I'd be unable to crane my head off the panel after I did my IR. Maybe it's an ego thing idk but a lot of people need to get off their high horse and be more open minded.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Didn't you buy your own plane, Mike?
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No, I was going to partner in one, actually the last time I flew was when I went to get that plane in Maryland and bring it home. That didn't work out, although the owner and I are good friends. Some of my "issues" came from that. Getting a hangar for that plane, getting it annualed etc. it was a cluster of epic proportion. I just kinda faded away from there.
 
mikeinbama said:
No, I was going to partner in one, actually the last time I flew was when I went to get that plane in Maryland and bring it home. That didn't work out, although the owner and I are good friends. Some of my "issues" came from that. Getting a hangar for that plane, getting it annualed etc. it was a cluster of epic proportion. I just kinda faded away from there.
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Really sorry to hear that. I can understand how you feel. Hope things improve.
 
mikeinbama said:
No, I was going to partner in one, actually the last time I flew was when I went to get that plane in Maryland and bring it home. That didn't work out, although the owner and I are good friends. Some of my "issues" came from that. Getting a hangar for that plane, getting it annualed etc. it was a cluster of epic proportion. I just kinda faded away from there.
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Sorry to hear. A hangar I got, but finding a mechanic for the new to me airplane could become, er, ah, entertaining.
 
Is it REALLLY that big of an issue getting into the "good ole boys" club? At least in terms of mechanics and the like?

I don't own a plane, and just rent from the same place I received my training, so I guess you could say I'm kind of "in" already, but I just don't get it...and haven't really experienced anything too negative or off-putting
 
mikeinbama said:
I absolutely love to fly, I really do, but I do not at all like what I have to do to get the wheels up. The culture, the airport politics, the backstabbing and petty squabbles etc. cant be avoided. I hope my desire grows again to the point that it overcomes my disdain for the politics. And, no, I really don't have other options.
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I don't understand this. I just go fly when I want.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
This was incredibly apparent at OSH. Four of us at age 20 were by far the youngest people in the North 40 not accompanied by a parent.

I will say many of the people in the North 40 were total pricks. Very very cliquey and one guy (maybe 75 at the youngest) had the audacity to say "youre a pilot? Youre just a rich prick" I'd said 2 words to the man before he said that.

I won't be back to OSH anytime soon.
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Sooooo what were the two words? If they were "Hello Jackass" then I can begin to see where the prickness came from.



I'm kidding of course....trying to steer this away from other controversial topic noted above.
 
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