Delta Runway Crash in LGA

Previous aircraft (Airbus 319) reported braking action "Good"
 
petrolero said:
Agree.

Side question... does the MD-80 have anti-skid brakes?
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I am sure it does, however, all having antiskid brakes means is if the braking action is zero, the brakes won't turn on.:lol: They don't magically make you stop. When you have ice, all you have is inertia and aerodynamics to work with.
 
Reports are conflicting...

Did it go off the end, to the left,, or make a hard left at mid field and slide along the fence/ berm???:dunno::dunno:
 
The CBS article has this quote:

The Port Authority said that the plane's chutes did not deploy. Scott Brenner, a former FAA assistant administrator, told CBSN that the fact that chutes did not deploy on the plane is "absolutely shocking."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/plane-skids-off-runway-at-new-yorks-laguardia-airport/

I assume they mean the slides? Maybe Cirrus has sold their chutes design to Delta for the MD-80s? :)
 
It veered left from runway 13. LGA ATCT tried to contact the crew, no dice. An airport ops truck saw the plane veer off and informed local. Braking action reported good by several aircraft.

Glad all are safe.
 
Breaking action is always great until you start to slide...
 
Runway conditions do change, but they don't change that dramatically that quickly.
 
Breaking action reports are a joke anyway. You can have 2 of the same airplane land one right after another and get totally different reports. Guess we will find out when the report comes out what happened.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Breaking action reports are a joke anyway. You can have 2 of the same airplane land one right after another and get totally different reports. Guess we will find out when the report comes out what happened.
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I'm guessing pilot error.
 
Henning said:
I am sure it does, however, all having antiskid brakes means is if the braking action is zero, the brakes won't turn on.:lol: They don't magically make you stop. When you have ice, all you have is inertia and aerodynamics to work with.
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Yes just like on my car.
 
Flight 1086 from Atlanta, now arriving Gate 23...Gate 24....Gate 25.....
 
petrolero said:
Yes just like on my car.
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That's why I don't like them on known ice surfaces. The only way I can start, or modify a slide, is by adding energy and hitting the throttle. Without anti lock brakes I can do it by using the brakes to modify the friction.
 
Henning said:
That's why I don't like them on known ice surfaces. The only way I can start, or modify a slide, is by adding energy and hitting the throttle. Without anti lock brakes I can do it by using the brakes to modify the friction.
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That's what the emergency brake is for, and why all non-US carmakers have them as a hand brake to easily pull and release instead of "step to set, step again to release" like in my truck.
 
N801BH said:
Just watch...... Some law firm will sue Delta for not putting tire chains on knowing it was going to land in the snow...:goofy::goofy:......:D
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ATL attorney:
Ken Nugent, "one call is all"
 
kayoh190 said:
Not sure if these were the exact conditions at the time of the accident, but this would have been tight. At my airline, we're not allowed to land with more than 15 knots of crosswind when the vis is less than 3/4 or 4000RVR. If the braking action sucks, it's even less.
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The accident happened while landing on Rwy 13 at 11:10am or 1610Z. Here are the metars I found.

KLGA 051551Z 01008KT 1/4SM R04/2800V3500FT SN FZFG VV009 M03/M05 A3012

KLGA 051622Z 01008KT 1/4SM R04/3000VP6000FT SN FZFG VV011 M03/M05 A3012
 
Better call Saul. Or maybe Slippin' Jimmy
 
fjkirkman said:
The accident happened while landing on Rwy 13 at 11:10am or 1610Z. Here are the metars I found.

KLGA 051551Z 01008KT 1/4SM R04/2800V3500FT SN FZFG VV009 M03/M05 A3012

KLGA 051622Z 01008KT 1/4SM R04/3000VP6000FT SN FZFG VV011 M03/M05 A3012
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First post.....

Welcome to POA....

:cheers::cheers:
 
Hank S said:
That's what the emergency brake is for, and why all non-US carmakers have them as a hand brake to easily pull and release instead of "step to set, step again to release" like in my truck.
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If you have a hand brake, no worries. The last vehicle I was continuously need idling to slide in had a pedal that you had to press all the way down a second time to get to release, not enough finesse available. The old style ones where you could wire the latch open worked fine as well, but hand brake makes it easiest. If it wasn't for being able to turn off the traction control, I would have been screwed on on turn.
 
Henning said:
That's why I don't like them on known ice surfaces. The only way I can start, or modify a slide, is by adding energy and hitting the throttle. Without anti lock brakes I can do it by using the brakes to modify the friction.
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That's what traction control does, wheel by wheel. If a wheel slips with an open diff or even LSD (to a somewhat lesser degree) then the other wheel receives equal torque and thus gets nothing. But with trac control it modulates the brake on the slipping wheel individually to provide some torque in order to allow the other wheel to turn. Sophisticated systems also monitor yaw rates and individual wheel speeds and so it detects when I'm trying to whip a ****ty into my own driveway. Lame.

For braking it keeps the wheels from locking up which is an attempt to keep from switching over into sliding mode. The coefficient of sliding friction being less than that of static friction.



.
 
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So can someone more experienced than me speculate on possible reasons the flight crew did not notify the tower or this incident? It seems that if a fire had started, etc. that rescue crews getting there in a timely matter would be critical.

I guess there is the possibility that they shut the master switch off (I don't have any experience in jets, but am guessing they have a master switch) so as to cut off electrical power that could spark a fire?
 
Somedudeintn said:
So can someone more experienced than me speculate on possible reasons the flight crew did not notify the tower or this incident? It seems that if a fire had started, etc. that rescue crews getting there in a timely matter would be critical.

I guess there is the possibility that they shut the master switch off (I don't have any experience in jets, but am guessing they have a master switch) so as to cut off electrical power that could spark a fire?
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Master switch off is a good possibility...

Also. I "think" the Avionics bay is up front and looking at the impact and damage... the radios could have been wrecked...
 
petrolero said:
That's what traction control does, wheel by wheel. If a wheel slips with an open diff or even LSD (to a somewhat lesser degree) then the other wheel receives equal torque and thus gets nothing. But with trac control it modulates the brake on the slipping wheel individually to provide some torque in order to allow the other wheel to turn. Sophisticated systems also monitor yaw rates and individual wheel speeds and so it detects when I'm trying to whip a ****ty into my own driveway. Lame.

For braking it keeps the wheels from locking up which is an attempt to keep from switching over into sliding mode. The coefficient of sliding friction being less than that of static friction.



.
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Thing is,mother are independent, but connected systems. Typically there is a switch to over ride the traction control system, but not the ABS.
 
Somedudeintn said:
So can someone more experienced than me speculate on possible reasons the flight crew did not notify the tower or this incident? It seems that if a fire had started, etc. that rescue crews getting there in a timely matter would be critical.

I guess there is the possibility that they shut the master switch off (I don't have any experience in jets, but am guessing they have a master switch) so as to cut off electrical power that could spark a fire?
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They wanted to assess the damage and get themselves as well as the passengers out of the plane? Calling ATC was low on their list.
 
It'd be interesting to see their flight control movements off the recorder leading up to this.
 
Somedudeintn said:
So can someone more experienced than me speculate on possible reasons the flight crew did not notify the tower or this incident? It seems that if a fire had started, etc. that rescue crews getting there in a timely matter would be critical.

I guess there is the possibility that they shut the master switch off (I don't have any experience in jets, but am guessing they have a master switch) so as to cut off electrical power that could spark a fire?
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There are quite a few items to do on an evac checklist on the DC9, so I imagine the MD80 has more. Especially when you're feet wet like they were up front.:eek:
 
There's no master switch, at least in the GA sense. The evacuation checklist will have the engines shut down, and once the generators kick offline, the radios will no longer be available. Why no radio call was made prior to this point, I'm not sure. But I'm sure they were busy, and unlike most emergencies and subsequent evacuations, they didn't really have a lot of time to pull the seat cushions out of their asses and formulate a plan. ;)

The radio racks reside in the E&E compartment, which is directly below the flight deck.
 
Actually I'm surprised stuff like this doesn't happen more often. Touching down on a slippery surface with just three wheels while going 150 mph can be quite precarious. They will likely call it pilot error but I'd call it runway condition error. We all would expect to be given a decent surface to put down on.
 
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