XJet at KAPA has free drinks for all! Top shelf stuff too. One day I'll need to go in as a passenger and not a pilot.
Declining Pilot Population
- Thread starter Flavius Renatus
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XJet at KAPA has free drinks for all! Top shelf stuff too. One day I'll need to go in as a passenger and not a pilot.
Anthony
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Anthony
XJet at KAPA has free drinks for all! Top shelf stuff too. One day I'll need to go in as a passenger and not a pilot.
I'd still rather use TAC Air.
HerrGruyere
Line Up and Wait
I'm 26. I don't swear around women, but I also just don't swear a lot in general. If I keep swearing all the time, then those words lose their meaning when I really want to use them, like when I stub my toe or drop a wrench. My parents don't swear a lot either, and I was raised to be polite.
On that note, I was also raised to be patient. Super patient. Annoyingly patient. It's frustrating to me to read that people text/surf the web in classes that they are attending or can't hold a conversation to save their life. That's really sad, actually. I live in an area, though, where people are constantly impatient. Always tailgating and stuff, and can't wait in line for five extra minutes. I just remember that I went to a car meet the other week, and just about everyone was on their phone browsing and it all went silent.
I know this feeling. I used to drive a 1988 BMW 325is that was in tip-top shape. It had a broken odometer that stopped at 235,657 and was estimated to have about 270K on the clock. It looked like it just drove off the dealership in 1988. People would ask about it all the time. I couldn't keep people from trying to get me to sell it.
Now I drive a 2004 BMW 330i ZHP. Everyone thinks I'm a snob. Granted, I also live in a snobby area so my car blends in. Maybe that's it. In any case, I see your point about stigmas and the like. I also seldom bring up my piloting endeavors even around other pilots. My girlfriend had to blab about my goals and skills at an open house at the local airport on Saturday.
On that note, I was also raised to be patient. Super patient. Annoyingly patient. It's frustrating to me to read that people text/surf the web in classes that they are attending or can't hold a conversation to save their life. That's really sad, actually. I live in an area, though, where people are constantly impatient. Always tailgating and stuff, and can't wait in line for five extra minutes. I just remember that I went to a car meet the other week, and just about everyone was on their phone browsing and it all went silent.
I know this feeling. I used to drive a 1988 BMW 325is that was in tip-top shape. It had a broken odometer that stopped at 235,657 and was estimated to have about 270K on the clock. It looked like it just drove off the dealership in 1988. People would ask about it all the time. I couldn't keep people from trying to get me to sell it.
Now I drive a 2004 BMW 330i ZHP. Everyone thinks I'm a snob. Granted, I also live in a snobby area so my car blends in. Maybe that's it. In any case, I see your point about stigmas and the like. I also seldom bring up my piloting endeavors even around other pilots. My girlfriend had to blab about my goals and skills at an open house at the local airport on Saturday.
Mafoo
Cleared for Takeoff
Just an FYI, I was too. I don't cures around women I just met, because I don't curse around anyone I just met.
If I was telling a joke however, or a story that needed a curse word, to someone who wanted to hear it, their gender would not change the words I speek.
I know just as many women that liked "The Hangover" then men, and I think both get to watch the same movie
HerrGruyere
Line Up and Wait
Oh yeah, of course! I mean, I swear a decent amount when it's necessary, like after six beers or in jokes involving broccoli. If I know someone well enough, gender plays no roles in the amount of swearing I do.
I think I was thinking along the lines of "I just met this person in a library and they're swearing like a sailor."
I think I was thinking along the lines of "I just met this person in a library and they're swearing like a sailor."
Mafoo
Cleared for Takeoff
steingar
Taxi to Parking
I just wrecked my 2001 MR2 Spyder, and I am going to really miss it. Best car I ever owned.
Around here no one really paid it any mind, though when I drove it to Niagara I was told it was the only one in all of Canada.
Around here no one really paid it any mind, though when I drove it to Niagara I was told it was the only one in all of Canada.
Mafoo
Cleared for Takeoff
Not unless you were in Lebanon NH in the last 6 months, because I wanted to buy one from a guy in a gas station parking lot who would not sell. He was from Canada.
I no longer have the Porsche, or the MR2, and the only car I have ever owned, that I really want back, is the MR2.
rpadula
En-Route
Well, you know what they say about Bimmer drivers and porcupines.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Me too, but I only drive on the weekends.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
Even women aren't of the same mind on this phenomenon, which gives you some idea of how rapidly this change has occurred.
My son, for example, was raised to open doors for women, etc. Now, as an officer and a gentleman in the US Army (well, he commissions in 60 days), this behavior has been further reinforced and ingrained.
His girlfriend loves it. Other chicks on-campus have expressed disdain for it. Of course, according to him, these are the same chicks who openly disrespect the uniform he wears, too.
Sent from my Nexus 7
Keith Lane
Pattern Altitude
A very good answer.....
People would rather watch somebody else do it on Youtube than go up and try it.
Anthony
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I've met a lot of creepy women too. Some young, some old. Creepiness know no gender nor age boundaries. I once had a woman in my face at a party threatening to KILL me because her husband was asking me about flying.
Anthony
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Well, you know what they say about Bimmer drivers and porcupines.
Yeah, with the Bimmer drivers, the pricks are on the inside. I had one, I should know.
rpadula
En-Route
Anthony, that skips right over creepy and lands squarely in PSYCHO-land!!!
Anthony
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Anthony, that skips right over creepy and lands squarely in PSYCHO-land!!!
Yeah, well I guess she was afraid he would start taking lessons, and end up like anybody that flies little planes, dead. But it was OK that he had a Harley.
ChrisK
En-Route
Please tell me there is hyperbole at play here...
Sent from my SGH-I777 using stolen Apple technology licensed from Microsoft.
Anthony
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I am being thoroughly honest about what she said. Now, would she have really "killed" me. No, but that's the expression she used. So I guess you could call it hyperbole, but she was not smiling, and she was very upset.
Mafoo
Cleared for Takeoff
Yea, I open the door for everyone. All the men say thank you, and almost all the women do as well.
I have always done that, and the reactions I get from men have been consistent over the 25 years I have been doing it.
The number of woman who think it's some sort of setback to women's lib, has died down, but I used to get some nasty looks in years past.
HerrGruyere
Line Up and Wait
Yeah, with the Bimmer drivers, the pricks are on the inside. I had one, I should know.
Herp derp. I must admit, the majority of BMW drivers around here are jerks.
N5922S
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I'll play Devil's Advocate...
Don't know who you're hanging around, but I think you'd be surprised at how little money "they" have. Most are borrowed to the hilt for those toys or leasing them. (The exception might be the retiring motor home crowd. They're just switching to housing on wheels.
Note that automotive advertising doesn't include the price anymore, it states the price per month "for qualified lessees with approved credit, and [insert outrageously high down-payment here]". Wasn't that long ago the ads had a price in them.
It also doesn't include taxes, licensing, or anything required for the upkeep.
In the average airplane rental, all of that stuff is rolled into the hourly price. Talk about bad Marketing.
As far as watchers vs. doers goes, what does aviation offer? You can learn to fly VFR and then waste away four days of the 10 you get at a "good" company in paid vacation time per year, in an airport lobby, waiting for the weather to clear so you can go home and not get fired when you no-show on Monday so the weather wouldn't kill you and your brood.
That's not very appealing to the average Joe and Jane. They're busy taking the kids to Soccer in the "amazing" mini-van with 16 cup holders and fold-flat seats.
All this in a 30+ year old aircraft that needs constant TLC in a world where cars run a year or more, without even an oil change, and people have no idea how to work on them.
Want a NEW aircraft capable of real family travel? Drop twice the price of the average Suburban home anywhere other than the coasts. (Which are horrendously bankrupt.)
I love aviation and will fly until someone makes me stop, but it's a hobby for die-hards these days.
Which new aircraft should a prospective pilot purchase brand new, that costs the same as say, a sports car, and can carry two adults, two kids, and go somewhere?
They can walk down to the RV dealer or boat shop and walk out with something they can play with this weekend, financed out the wazoo, with no requirement to learn anything, no checkrides, no logbooks, no Chief Counsel opinions about who can ride in it and pay for the gas, and rarely are they deadly enough that a good friend will crash one and die, for about $250-$300/month.
Harsh, yes. But that's going to be how the non-flying public sees it.
OUCH ! Great -- but painful -- analysis. Too bad coming generations won't have the opportunity we had. I plan to enjoy it until I can't.
StevieTimes
Line Up and Wait
Why don't we see TV commercials promoting GA? THAT would get people asking pilots questions, which THEN they could help promote GA. It's just weird if someone walks up to you and starts promoting something; but if you're sitting around, and a TV commercial comes on promoting GA, everyone's going to look at the pilot friend and ask "is that true???".
Cessna doesn't seem to do it. I don't think most FBOs can afford to do it.
I'd like to see AOPA or a FBO with pockets do just one TV commercial targeting GA. This is how it should go (NOTE: I'm trying to paint a great regionally-targeted picture here; so I'm going to talk about 182 RG speeds, and 152 costs!):
"Hey Minnesota, like to get away, but hate the hassel of driving? All that traffic, construction, speed laws, and the boredom of it all slowly going by?
(screen explodes from a Cessna "flying through it")
How's this for "getting away"? Up to the lakes of Brainerd in only one half hour??? No way! Chicago; in just over two hours? It can't be! Duluth, in only 45 minutes, legally? Yes, even a beautiful location like Madeline Island is only one hour away; with its own runway, just waiting for YOU!
Best of all; you decide when you leave! Long lines? Not any more! Late for your flight? Not when you're the captain!
Fly yourself? Yes, it's true! It's easier than ever now to earn your pilot's license in as little as 20 hours of training (show asterisk here)!
It's a common misconception that flying is only for the wealthy; the rental cost of an average Cessna 152 is a measly $100 per hour; and that includes fuel! You are only charged for the time when the engine is running! That means you can fly for an hour, park it for eight hours, fly for another hour, and you're only charged for the two hours that the plane was running!
Too good to be true? Call now! In less time than you might imagine, we can have you flying through the sky, buzzing off to fantastic destinations at speeds only an airplane can provide. There are no stop signs, detours, or slow roads; just a highway in the sky, straight to your destination! You call the shots; the plane leaves when you say it does!
Want to do some additional sight-seeing on the way? The plane goes where YOU say it goes!
The liberty, the freedom, the satisfaction! It's not for "other people", it's for you! Call us today for more information.
(then when they call, you do the "intro flight" discount deal, get them hooked, bada-bing)
I just don't think I've seen a commercial before trying to get the public into GA. It should be full of "cool" scenes, like a plane banking steeply away from the camera, water in the background. Young "real" people, doing their training, and flying the plane. An ILS at night. Landing somewhere beautiful. Flying over the city. clinking glasses at some exotic retreat. popping out of the clouds and skimming over the tops of them.
AOPA should make it happen. Have a youtube contest, best commercial gets aired, maybe; or they just produce one, I don't know.
Cessna doesn't seem to do it. I don't think most FBOs can afford to do it.
I'd like to see AOPA or a FBO with pockets do just one TV commercial targeting GA. This is how it should go (NOTE: I'm trying to paint a great regionally-targeted picture here; so I'm going to talk about 182 RG speeds, and 152 costs!):
"Hey Minnesota, like to get away, but hate the hassel of driving? All that traffic, construction, speed laws, and the boredom of it all slowly going by?
(screen explodes from a Cessna "flying through it")
How's this for "getting away"? Up to the lakes of Brainerd in only one half hour??? No way! Chicago; in just over two hours? It can't be! Duluth, in only 45 minutes, legally? Yes, even a beautiful location like Madeline Island is only one hour away; with its own runway, just waiting for YOU!
Best of all; you decide when you leave! Long lines? Not any more! Late for your flight? Not when you're the captain!
Fly yourself? Yes, it's true! It's easier than ever now to earn your pilot's license in as little as 20 hours of training (show asterisk here)!
It's a common misconception that flying is only for the wealthy; the rental cost of an average Cessna 152 is a measly $100 per hour; and that includes fuel! You are only charged for the time when the engine is running! That means you can fly for an hour, park it for eight hours, fly for another hour, and you're only charged for the two hours that the plane was running!
Too good to be true? Call now! In less time than you might imagine, we can have you flying through the sky, buzzing off to fantastic destinations at speeds only an airplane can provide. There are no stop signs, detours, or slow roads; just a highway in the sky, straight to your destination! You call the shots; the plane leaves when you say it does!
Want to do some additional sight-seeing on the way? The plane goes where YOU say it goes!
The liberty, the freedom, the satisfaction! It's not for "other people", it's for you! Call us today for more information.
(then when they call, you do the "intro flight" discount deal, get them hooked, bada-bing)
I just don't think I've seen a commercial before trying to get the public into GA. It should be full of "cool" scenes, like a plane banking steeply away from the camera, water in the background. Young "real" people, doing their training, and flying the plane. An ILS at night. Landing somewhere beautiful. Flying over the city. clinking glasses at some exotic retreat. popping out of the clouds and skimming over the tops of them.
AOPA should make it happen. Have a youtube contest, best commercial gets aired, maybe; or they just produce one, I don't know.
wabower
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Old-timers can remember TV spots and NASCAR sponsorship. I still see an occasional ad, usually on small-market cable channels, and always stop to watch them while wondering if they are generating any biz for the sponsor. Air time and GA margins don't seem to be compatible.
MSPAviator
Cleared for Takeoff
Wow, you nailed it! The only one of those things I haven't done is fly to Chicago... No Meigs, no me.
Jim Logajan
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Actually, the AOPA and others partner to buy airtime every year around Christmas time on the Weather Channel to promote GA. Been doing it for a few years...
I do like your concept though.... Well, except for the part that says:
"Too good to be true? Call now! In less time than you might imagine, we can have you flying through the sky, buzzing off to fantastic destinations at speeds only an airplane can provide. There are no stop signs, detours, or slow roads; just a highway in the sky, straight to your destination! You call the shots; the plane leaves when you say it does!"..
Seems those pesky TFR's will derail that avenue.
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StevieTimes
Line Up and Wait
I did take some liberties there!it's gotta sound cool so it plants a seed. that mtv commercial was just plain weird!
I've never seen one just promoting GA, in a way that "real people" would take notice.
make it sound unbelievably cool, plant some seeds, get dialogue started, etc.
it's gotta sound cool so it plants a seed. that mtv commercial was just plain weird!
I've never seen one just promoting GA, in a way that "real people" would take notice.
make it sound unbelievably cool, plant some seeds, get dialogue started, etc.
Agreed 100%..
cirrusmx
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campoalavista
Problem with flying is that you actually have to have a travelling need. If you take flying just for fun for the local flight every now and then it gets old pretty quick. 30 year old Spam cans are not really that viable for scheduled travel, let alone if you dont have an inst. rating. I have a friend that has a 210 that has been stuck in mexico for 3 weeks now because of some clouds, not even bad weather, just some overcasts. In the mean time I already went and came about three times. At least he is working on his instrument rating and will actually have a capable plane at the end of the month. Then even if you have an IR, actual travel can get risky for the amateur pilot or for the ocassional weekend topgun. I lease a cirrus and fly the crap out of it every single weekend, however I know that the moment I dont have the need to travel or I am not flying 20 hours a month I am hanging the towel. It gets dangerous pretty quickly if you dont fly often and my flight frequency is borderline often. Airplanes are like cars, you just don't drive for the sake of driving. It helps to work on a place where you can telecommute in case you dont make it on monday.
HerrGruyere
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wabower
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To be sure I understand the concept, you're basically saying it's OK for the industry to advertise the benefits of GA in the same way that have caused those within the industry to be highly critical of Cirrus for doing over the years?
it's gotta sound cool so it plants a seed. that mtv commercial was just plain weird!
I've never seen one just promoting GA, in a way that "real people" would take notice.
make it sound unbelievably cool, plant some seeds, get dialogue started, etc.
ClimbnSink
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Done. Pilots skewered them for it. Whatever. Faster then a jetski so it is alright by me.:wink2:
it's gotta sound cool so it plants a seed. that mtv commercial was just plain weird!
I've never seen one just promoting GA, in a way that "real people" would take notice.
make it sound unbelievably cool, plant some seeds, get dialogue started, etc.
StevieTimes
Line Up and Wait
I'm sorry, I'm new here... what's the problem? we don't want to paint a pretty picture of GA to the public...?
hindsight2020
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I believe the position being suggested by the poster you quoted is that it's ok to sell the mainstream idiot more boat, recreational vehicle, or automobile than he or she can safely operate, but that it is not ok to sell the same idiot more airplane than he can safely operate. Essentially, the advocacy that flying is an activity placed in higher technical regard than boating or operating ground machinery.
Personally, I would like to know the fatality rate of boating as an activity, both vehicle impact and drowning combined, versus general aviation fatalities. I'm of the position that if indeed the boating fatality rate is low per capita then I have no argument against flying elitism. But if a boatload of people (pun intended) are dying every year due to boating as an activity, then I really have nothing against pushing for more idiots flying. I don't know the statistics on this though.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
There are many people in our country, even inside the aviation community, who would rather see personal flying banned than promote it as "fun", "exciting" or a "viable means of transportation".
They dwell on the negative, telling you that its impossible to fly safely without an instrument rating or glass panels. They will tell you that flying is a very sketchy affair, and that you are only slightly less than sane to do it.
These people lurk among is, doing it all in the name of "safety". "It's for the children", they will tell you, as they strip away freedom after freedom.
It's as if they think they're getting off this planet alive.
Sent from my Nexus 7
denverpilot
Tied Down
They usually have no lives, and are insanely jealous of those who've chosen to do things. See: Homeowners Associations.
Mafoo
Cleared for Takeoff
lol, now that's an awesome post. When we don't talk about technology, we seem to always be on the same page.
Sent from my thing that Jay hates.
rpadula
En-Route
Circa 1947. Since you're older than dirt, perhaps you might remember the first printings.
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cirrusmx
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campoalavista
All these for the reasonable sum of 300,000 for a 172. This my friend is the problem.
StevieTimes
Line Up and Wait
I was pimping rentals in my "commercial"; kinda aiming towards flying clubs/FBO rentals.
I agree though, aviation costs a lot. I can't afford to fly every weekend. At $135 an hour for a 1999 Cessna 172, a "hamburger" usually costs around $300. I can't do that twice in one weekend! Frankly I can't do it every week. Joining a club will help; but I agree, aviation costs a lot.
We can discuss value; but I value my flight time quite a bit, and it doesn't change my take-home pay, or what responsibilities it has to cover.
I agree; if I was going to try to sell somebody on GA, it wouldn't be buying a new Cessna 172, that's for sure! That's insanity.