Declining Pilot Population

Flying is fun but it's mostly only fun for the person who is doing it. I think it's more difficult to integrate the family into a flying hobby than some other activities. This would be especially true if the spouse isn't on board.

Geography really has an impact. My wife doesn't particularly care for flying, might even say she dislikes it. But, she does recognize its utility.

When we lived in the Midwest, about the only time she'd fly with me was weekend trips to my parents lake house in the summer. It was a 6+ hour drive with a lot of two lane roads, or a 1:45 flight. She ended up flying maybe 6 or 7 times a year, just to the lake in the summer.

When we lived in Charlotte, we flew all year long and all the time. Charlotte is nice, but the coast is nicer. I could bribe her with fresh seafood at least 2 times a month. We did Savannah, Charleston, Okra Coke, Orlando, Myrtle Beach and a bunch of other spots up and down the coast. The was the most regular flying I've ever done but the expenses piled up between gas, rental cars and quite a few hotel rooms for the weekend. LOVED it.
 
Geography really has an impact. My wife doesn't particularly care for flying, might even say she dislikes it. But, she does recognize its utility.

When we lived in the Midwest, about the only time she'd fly with me was weekend trips to my parents lake house in the summer. It was a 6+ hour drive with a lot of two lane roads, or a 1:45 flight. She ended up flying maybe 6 or 7 times a year, just to the lake in the summer.

When we lived in Charlotte, we flew all year long and all the time. Charlotte is nice, but the coast is nicer. I could bribe her with fresh seafood at least 2 times a month. We did Savannah, Charleston, Okra Coke, Orlando, Myrtle Beach and a bunch of other spots up and down the coast. The was the most regular flying I've ever done but the expenses piled up between gas, rental cars and quite a few hotel rooms for the weekend. LOVED it.

This sounds nice! That's how we plan on spending the weekends with the airplane once my significant other comes to live with me (no more 420NM booty calls LOL) . 200NM trips to the TX coast in the summer and the occasional 400NM+ trips to family and friends throughout the year. The expenses once you get there I never count, I was going to incur those whether I drove or not. One only lives once!
 
First time I rode on Timken's corporate jet shuttle between Canton and Hartford, I introduced myself to the pilots when I boarded. They chatted me up quite a bit and were extremely friendly. Once in the air, I spent the entire hour long flight sitting on the bulkhead between them checking out the panel, discussing flying, etc. It was really nice.

A few weeks later, I was at the airport waiting for a standby position on the corporate jet ... I hadn't booked ahead and the plane was full. I saw the pilots and they asked if I was joining them. Told them I was on standby for a seat. They told me not to worry. I spent the takeoff and landing in the lavatory (legal, had a seat belt, but they didn't usually use it). Again spent the flight up front chatting.

Both flights were with our company crew but on our older plane (a Citation, maybe?). When we got to the hanger, they gave me a tour of the "new" plane - it was pretty cool, don't remember what it was. They shared stories of "Mrs. Timken" who had her own company Lear and always flew it her self with one of the corp pilots in the right seat.

Corp pilots strike me as pretty good guys. These guys definitely had an interest/passion in flying and weren't just bus drivers. I'm pretty sure if anyone shows any interest in aviation to one of Timken's corp pilots, they'll get some encouragement.
Cool. We like when people express some kind of interest too, it's just that not many people do. That's where I've gotten the idea that it's somewhat uncommon to have that interest.
 
Cool. We like when people express some kind of interest too, it's just that not many people do. That's where I've gotten the idea that it's somewhat uncommon to have that interest.

I know it's not the same, but, since the day I got my PPL (both times POA fly-ins) - I have told EVERY pilot I was interested. One even gave me his seat! From Boeing 747s to smaller newer jets - I've never been disappointed.
 
I am 21, almost 22. Although the numbers say there are 60k people in my category most aren't pilots like me. I'm not interested in going to the airlines or anything like that might just want to enjoy aviation and the fun it provides me with. It's a sacrifice for younger people, but worth it. The s/o and I are lucky to share all costs and everything.
 
The FAA's stats don't break out all the offshore students who come here and get tickets.. That alone would skew the figures...:yes::dunno:

Big time. The AME's office today had a world map with pushpins for where people were from over the years who came to him for FAA Medicals. It was a fascinating distribution.

Most of Europe was buried in pins, as were populated areas of Canada. Almost zero Aussies, and very few South America, Africa, and any place that used to be the USSR.

I should have taken a photo. Maybe I'll stop back in just to do that sometime.

Interestingly, no China. I suppose of his practice was in PHX that would be quite different.
 
(no more 420NM booty calls LOL)

That brought laughter from both me and Karen. She had to return to Iowa to finish school, after we got married! 618 nm one-way!

I-80 sucks. That highway never changes.

We'd usually meet halfway. I can testify that Grand Island, NE is no place to spend a romantic weekend.
 
The FAA's stats don't break out all the offshore students who come here and get tickets.. That alone would skew the figures...:yes::dunno:

Those stats are available in the following table. Of the 617k active pilots of all types, 45k are foreign. Of 212k private pilots, 9.4k are foreign. Not a large skew. There is one CFI and one student pilot in the Federated States of Micronesia, which seems to be in some sort of compact with the U.S. which I think must be why it is listed iin the FAA western region.

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/2011/media/Air05-2011.xls
 
When I started flying in 2009 at the age of 28, I could just barely afford it. I actually started taking lessons the year before but I quit because I wanted/needed to fly more often to retain the training and I saved money so I could fly several times a week.

The expense is not justifiable by most people and out of those who really want it, most don't have the financial wherewithal.

The price of gas getting near $6 doesn't help, neither does the high cost of certified airplane parts. :no:
 
When I started flying in 2009 at the age of 28, I could just barely afford it.

I keep hearing adjusted dollar due to inflation blah blah nowadays and how aviation has always been prohibitively expensive. Sure it's not cheap however it hasn't always been just for rich people.

In the early 1980's, a kid with a lawnmower and lazy neighbors on the weekend could afford to rent a 150 or even a 172. BTDT. You couldn't do 30 hours flying per week doing that however you could certainly put in 4 hours a week and still have a bit of a life doing other things.
Forget all the spend all your money on technology nonsense and house payments and paying for college for the kids and buying another new car and other excuses. Show me a typical 16-17 year old kids job today that can earn enough to put in 4 hours a week in a $100/hr airplane just by working two days.

$35 a day even in 1982, easy.
$200+ a day today, nope, not happening for the most part even with a real job.

Sure I was living at home at the time. So are most 16-17 year olds today. No excuse in the expenses department at least for that age group.

Flying has become prohibitively expensive and the income rate increase over the years hasn't kept up. Expenses vs income over the last couple decades has been divergent.
 
Those stats are available in the following table. Of the 617k active pilots of all types, 45k are foreign. Of 212k private pilots, 9.4k are foreign. Not a large skew. There is one CFI and one student pilot in the Federated States of Micronesia, which seems to be in some sort of compact with the U.S. which I think must be why it is listed iin the FAA western region.

http://www.faa.gov/data_research/av...l_airmen_statistics/2011/media/Air05-2011.xls

The discussion here is about age. That chart does NOT show age for offshore students -vs- the average age of pilots.... I contend the vast majority of active pilots here in the US are getting up in age... The skew happens when there are a bunch of foreign students, who are young, and get a ticket here and show up in the stats but are not around in this country for other people to see all the new young pilots... Perception is what is driving this topic and in my opinion the main reason most people feel that way is there are NOT that many young US citizens flying at US based airports, simply because all the young ones are 10,000 miles and half way around the world.. IMHO.. YMMV..:rolleyes:
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IME, you'll get a much different impression depending on where you're looking. I'm based on a taxiway with a Cirrus service center, a MX base for a 135 Caravan freight feeder and a conventional 135 freight hauler. The Cessna pilot center/FBO is also based there, and the hangar complex houses a number of HP singles. If you based your age observations on this particular area of the airport, you'd think the pilot population was dominated by young'uns.

If you stop for breakfast or lunch at the diner that has served the airport since the flood (Noah's) when the geezer group is holding court, you might come away with a different impression.



The discussion here is about age. That chart does NOT show age for offshore students -vs- the average age of pilots.... I contend the vast majority of active pilots here in the US are getting up in age... The skew happens when there are a bunch of foreign students, who are young, and get a tcket here and show up in the stats but are not around in this country for other people to see all the new young pilots... Perception is what is driving this topic and in my opinion the main reason most people feel that way is there are NOT that many young US citizens flying at US based airports, simply because all the young ones are 10,000 miles and half way around the world.. IMHO.. YMMV..:rolleyes:
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IME, you'll get a much different impression depending on where you're looking. I'm based on a taxiway with a Cirrus service center, a MX base for a 135 Caravan freight feeder and a conventional 135 freight hauler. The Cessna pilot center/FBO is also based there, and the hangar complex houses a number of HP singles. If you based your age observations on this particular area of the airport, you'd think the pilot population was dominated by young'uns.

If you stop for breakfast or lunch at the diner that has served the airport since the flood (Noah's) when the geezer group is holding court, you might come away with a different impression.
And if you stop in the pilot lounge at MillionAir you'll think that most pilots are of the middle-aged variety. :)
 
And if you stop in the pilot lounge at MillionAir you'll think that most pilots are of the middle-aged variety. :)

Depending on your vantage point, they count as young'uns too. Especially the hotties flying the big iron.
 
The thing I deal with when offering to take my friends for a flight is: PARENTS.

Im a teenager most of the people I take flying are teenagers. If their parents will even let them go near the airfield. Then when someone does go flying with me I let them fly a little just basic turns let them see it really is not to hard with practice. Then I take the controls back and land. 9 times out of 10 my friends say "Wow that was a lot of fun, but I could never do that!" Maybe I'm too good of a pilot and make the little turns they made (which normally on turn 3 are fairly coordinated and passable) look horrible, I dont know. People assume that its extremely hard and its an elitist skill. In reality its the nearly full logbook I carry around in my flight bag.
 
The thing I deal with when offering to take my friends for a flight is: PARENTS.

Im a teenager . . .

Imagine that! Who'd a'thought parents would worry about such a thing?
 
Here's my take on what could reverse the trend and help foster GA reinvestment:

OWNER-EXPERIMENTAL. That's right. You just alleviated both of the complaints on the owner/operator experience: money and regulations. No longer putting a de facto automotive part like an electric fuel pump, starter or alternator cost you a ridiculous AMU. It would also bring in a lot more value to the 4 seater certified spam cans, which still present a great value over the 4-seater options available in the experimental market. Then you have the incredible safety increase by allowing "non-TSO" avionics into your cockpit, which also doubles in non-economic value by having greater ramp appeal to the demographics who were raised behind LCD screens.

It truly is possible, if the regulatory bodies would allow it. If I could successfully push the idea the maintenance of that aircraft, in terms of parts and inspection costs, would be more in tune with specialty (read low end boats) applications, it would spark a whole lot more interest, especially among people who are itching to get in but the financial horror stories of 30AMU 1930s tractor engines and 2+ AMU entry price for the yearly aviation equivalent of a car's "inspection sticker", keep them out.

I don't expect the boomers to buy into it. They've largely always winced at the idea of going experimental; adjudicated such desires as the negligent corner-cutting attitudes that don't belong in their pseudo-elitist world of competitive regulation-compliance. I still think we can revitalize the neglected spam can fleet waiting their number to the salvage yard, if we go owner-experimental!

As to my personal angle, at almost 31 years old, I recognize I may be in the 'Last of the Comanche' generation to this American Tale, destined to be shot and herded into obsolescence when the numbers dwindle enough to make our plight the postulations of a few remaining die-hards with no political relevance. Maybe so... But I'll refuse to give up the freedom of flight afforded to me by those who fought and died before me. To me, being an American means having the freedom and access to vast expanses of land in my own mechanized contraption. To have the opportunity to "rent" a little patch of land for 80 years and call it my international airport. To take up the young ones and unshackle them from pedestrian compliant living, in ways no kid in Europe or Asia has access to readily. That is the beauty of this freggin' dying dream of a Country. It's the only reason I serve in the military, for not much else about our present day Country's population inspires me to sacrifice so much of my personal existence for what could be construed as anachronistic "moral abstractions". Nothing could be more real than these abstractions, to me.

As such, I'll go off the grid, scud run the rules if I have to. It's the American way in my mind. I'll teach my children to carry on that spirit and to scoff at the culture of blind compliance and snitching that is touted as good for you while it neuters your existence. I digress.

Now, I'm sure the fine folks at the FAA will be inspired by my humble plight and agree owner-experimental is not only great for aviation safety, it's also incredibly American in nature and just the damn right thing to do. Who's got my back?! *crickets crikets* Boy I feel like Jerry Maguire typing this.....

Great post, great ideas.

Won't happen for the same reason we will continue to spend ourselves into fiscal collapse, rather than cutting anything: Entrenched bureaucratic power.

The only way the FAA goes away is if every, single pilot in America stops flying. Even then, it would take ten years to defund them. Heck, we had 'crats working in the helium reserve for 70 years.

Sent from my Nexus 7
 
I don't think that younger people understand the time committment involved in learning to fly. I know my friends didn't when I was getting my PPL and now that I'm working on my IR they still don't get why I'm spending 5+ hours a week flying and less time (money) going out with them. I also don't think that people believe it's achievable to them for one reason or another. Most of my friends really enjoy flying with me, and for a lot of them it's their first trip in a little airplane. I dunno, maybe it's different for me because I flew right seat in 310's, 210's, Navajos etc since I was born until I was 14 or so and then I worked line at the FBO. It took me till I was 21 to realize that I could fly just like everyone else who came into the FBO. I will say it is very, very rare where I worked to see pilots as young as I am. I saw maybe 3 or 4 in about a 2 month period that I can remember. One lady was with her grandfather (also a pilot) and had gotten her private the day before and was headed to OSH, at least 2 were students on solos (I'm not including foreign students from UND) and another one was also a fairly new private just flying.
 
I like what everyone has said, but I am pretty confident the reason is money (like most everyone has stated).
 
It is money slowing down the converted, it isn't money stopping mew pilots. If it was money there should be more 1 percenter(whatever you want to call them) pilots Rules, Unfriendly Pilots, and it ain't that much fun to most people.
 
I'm not sure if the money issue is because they can't afford it or don't want to.

An objective +/- list "Ben Franklin balance sheet" would cast serious doubt on the efficacy of any such endeavor. Summer flying in TX has been described as the closest approximation to sitting in a sauna while tearing up $100 bills.

I'd also be interested in a cross-section analysis of the outcome of training starts. For example, I moved to Dallas in 1987, so the ensuing 25 years are easy to identify. How many pilot-training starts took place in 1987? Where are they now? How many dropped out? When and why did they bail? How many finished training? How many advanced ratings? How many gainfully employed as a result? How many own planes? Are they still actively involved in GA? yada yada yada
 
I think there are quite a few hurdles to get over in recruiting and keeping new pilots.

1. They need to be interested.

2. They need to have the money.

3. The realization that instead of the "freedom of the skies", aviation is actually quite highly regulated and procedural. This may not be what people are looking for in a hobby.

4. The "what now?" feeling many people get after they become private pilots.
 
It is money slowing down the converted, it isn't money stopping mew pilots. If it was money there should be more 1 percenter(whatever you want to call them) pilots Rules, Unfriendly Pilots, and it ain't that much fun to most people.

I like boats. I currently don't own one, but if I could get the kind of boat that cost $30,000 for $3,000 I would buy one.

I can afford to buy a $30,000 boat, but a $30,000 boat is not worth 30,000 of my dollars.

I can think of a lot of things I would rather do with that money, then sink it into something that floats.

Learning to fly cost around $10,000. More if it's challenging to you. I can see a lot of people who would like to know how to fly, but not $10,000 worth of like.

It's all priorities.
 
The situation is more complex than just money, but it's certainly a factor. A while ago, I shared on here that I was letting a co-worker borrow my Beech Sierra to get his PPL. I was doing this simply because I want to help the pilot population grow, so I was letting him use my plane for free, all he had to do was to pay for his instructor and put gas in it; he never got his license.
 
The old country expression about shoving money up a dead horse might be applicable in aviation as well.

I think there are quite a few hurdles to get over in recruiting and keeping new pilots.

1. They need to be interested.

2. They need to have the money.

3. The realization that instead of the "freedom of the skies", aviation is actually quite highly regulated and procedural. This may not be what people are looking for in a hobby.

4. The "what now?" feeling many people get after they become private pilots.
 
While I don't mean to be discouraging I'm just pointing out the reality of why the percentage of GA pilots to the general population is low and has always been low. I didn't know any pilots at all when I started taking lessons. Even after I learned I only knew a handful. That was over 30 years ago. I know more pilots now than I ever did, but I'm sure that's because of the internet and boards like this one. :)
 
But also reinforces the reason for the disproportionate number
of pilots since 1945, without which this discussion regarding a decline would not be worthy of comment.

While I don't mean to be discouraging I'm just pointing out the reality of why the percentage of GA pilots to the general population is low and has always been low. I didn't know any pilots at all when I started taking lessons. Even after I learned I only knew a handful. That was over 30 years ago. I know more pilots now than I ever did, but I'm sure that's because of the internet and boards like this one. :)
 
While I don't mean to be discouraging I'm just pointing out the reality of why the percentage of GA pilots to the general population is low and has always been low. I didn't know any pilots at all when I started taking lessons. Even after I learned I only knew a handful. That was over 30 years ago. I know more pilots now than I ever did, but I'm sure that's because of the internet and boards like this one. :)

Ditto. If I just relied on "in person" and didn't use the internet, I would probably know less than 10 people at my airport today. The internet has done everything for me, from tell me when to volunteer for Young Eagles to all the rest.
 
The situation is more complex than just money, but it's certainly a factor. A while ago, I shared on here that I was letting a co-worker borrow my Beech Sierra to get his PPL. I was doing this simply because I want to help the pilot population grow, so I was letting him use my plane for free, all he had to do was to pay for his instructor and put gas in it; he never got his license.

That's truly sad.

So, on another note... Can I borrow your Beech? ;)

Heh heh.
 
I skimmed through the thread and noticed a few people talking about regulation, but I can say that September 11 specifically definitely had an impact on how much I fly and how excited I am to bring potential new pilots into the activity. For me, at least, flying went from being an incredibly fun and freeing thing to being something that could get me killed (by an F-16, not my stupidity) or sentenced to prison. And yes, I tell people that when they hear I'm a CFI and ask me what flying is like. So maybe I'm part of the problem. :wink2: In any case, September 11 took a lot of the fun out of flying and aviation in general.

Also, like someone else already pointed out, pilots can be jerks. I learned to fly in college, where my age and gender weren't barriers. In fact, I sometimes wonder if people realized I was a girl. But now? The pilots I do meet are 50 year old men...and not that there's anything wrong with that, but they do see this 30 year old woman differently than a bunch of 20 year old college students did, and they make it clear. Even in the thread I started here about being afraid to fly, a couple people suggested I find another female pilot to fly with. Why? Why should be gender even be an issue? Why can't I fly with the boys like I used to? Or is my age the issue? I'm sure a lot of pilots who start out flying younger like I did will come to that conclusion eventually as well. Pilots just aren't friendly and the crusty old pilot isn't doing the industry as a whole any favors if we want to reverse the trend.
 
I'm not sure that pilots are any less friendly than any other group of people. How do we define pilots? Are they at the airport 24-7? What are they when they're other places? My grand-kids think I'm a friendly fellow. I've found that many people who drive automobiles aren't all that friendly, especially if you take the parking place for which you've been patiently waiting with blinker flashing for five minutes while the nice lady searches for her key and loads her groceries.

People at country clubs and other gathering spots don't seem to be particularly adept at glad-handing either. Other than bartenders, car salesmen and others who are trying to sell something, I'm having a hard time identifying any group that is noticeably friendlier than any other.
 
I'm not sure that pilots are any less friendly than any other group of people.

They're probably very friendly outside the airport. But try to make aviation small talk with one and it's all, "How many hours do you have?" competition and such. And newcomers at an airport? Maybe it's just me, but I've never been welcomed into a club since college.
 
I dunno. I don't really feel the need to socialize with other pilots. I guess I'm socially challenged.
 
I dunno. I don't really feel the need to socialize with other pilots. I guess I'm socially challenged.

Socializing sure helps when looking for a safety pilot!

And being friendly and open to new people makes a difference when someone is considering getting their license.

Dunno, maybe it's just me.
 
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