Debonair

[Tantalum]

You don't hear much about this plane.. but if you don't need seats for 6 then the spec sheet for it is pretty impressive, at least comparing it to something like an Arrow. Does it just not get as much fanfare because the Bonanza stole all the fun? Or is there something else?

 

[GRG55]

It is basically a "straight tail" Bonanza.
After the V-tail Model 35 was discontinued Beech started calling the Model 33 a Bonanza.
The last generation of these, the F-33, are modestly popular to upgrade to 300 hp IO-550s.

 

[John221us]

I was looking at them at one point. It is a nice plane, but it is hard to find a good example, at least when I was looking. You have to kiss a lot of frogs, but I suppose that is true of all the older planes. The early ones had a 225 HP engine stock and there is an STC for the 285 HP, but not all have it.

 

[MickYoumans]

I love the 'Deb's'. When AOPA gave away the Debonair a couple of years ago, I wanted to win that plane so bad. That was one nice plane to me.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I had access to a 300 HP Debonair when I lived in Colorado. So far it has been my overall favorite airplane to fly.

 

[kyleb]

I love the 'Deb's'. When AOPA gave away the Debonair a couple of years ago, I wanted to win that plane so bad. That was one nice plane to me.

I agree. Deb's are nice airplanes and that was a very nice example (although a bit over-done, like most AOPA give-away's). The trouble is the 225 hp versions have been "little brothers" over the years and have gravitated towards cheap owners. A lot of those owners did minimal maintenance and few, if any upgrades, so the Deb's on the market often need a lot of love.

 

[Pilawt]

It is basically a "straight tail" Bonanza.

The Debonair (originally called "Model 35-33") was introduced in 1960 as a lower-powered, lower-cost stepsister to the Bonanza line, to compete head-on in the Piper Comanche's price class. The Deb's interior, cosmetic details and standard equipment list trailed the Model 35.

The 35-33 originally had the 225-hp Continental IO-470-J/K, which used cheaper 80-octane fuel.

The C33A Debonair was introduced in 1965, with the same 285-hp IO-520 as in the V-tail S35. The 225 hp and 285 hp versions were built side-by side through 1970.

In 1968 the 33 series was renamed "Bonanza", but still had some features (e.g., baggage area, rear window styling, wingtips) inherited from older V-tails. The 1968 catalog included E33 (225 hp straight tail), E33A (285 hp straight tail), E33C (285 hp straight tail, aerobatic); and V35A (285 hp V-tail). An E33B (225 hp straight tail, aerobatic) was also offered, but none was ever ordered or built.

Finally in 1972 the straight-tail F33A and V-tail V35B were identical in every way (even price) other than the tail.

After the V-tail Model 35 was discontinued Beech started calling the Model 33 a Bonanza.

The V-tail V35B continued in production until 1981.

Photos below: 1964 35-B33 Debonair; 1964 S35 Bonanza.

 

[Skyrys62]

You don't hear much about this plane.. but if you don't need seats for 6 then the spec sheet for it is pretty impressive

Sounds like someone is eyeballing one for purchase?

 

[mscard88]

The V-tail V35B continued in production until 1981.

Loved flying the 35B. Flew one for an electrical contractor who owned one and an A36.

 

[hindsight2020]

As much of a Lycoming religious follower as I am, I'm intrigued by the 33 model, especially compared to the Comanches. I've yet to sit in one though, no idea how the backseats compare to the '66+ PA24s or even my PA28. As to mx, I suppose the standard 35 model laundry list of stuff applies to the 33, sans the part-time tail of course. Same regarding the leading edge tanks being forward of the pilot and causing aft cg movement with fuel burn.

I hear performance is not eye-watering with the 225HP engine, they tend to be heavy (1.9-2k# airplanes these days, with a 3050MGW) so their useful is not competitive for the horsepower. They do make an STC to make the IO-470-K into an 260HP -N model or go for full up IO520 conversion, which makes it essentially a "straight tail P35" or C33A respectively.

I'd love to hear real world performance specs for those who have flown the thing with the stock engine; pricing seems competitive if they're truly 155kt machines per the book (my short anecdotal research suggesting they are not).

 

[SkyDog58]

I love the 'Deb's'. When AOPA gave away the Debonair a couple of years ago, I wanted to win that plane so bad. That was one nice plane to me.

I saw that Deb at an AOPA flyin and it was very nice. I'd been happy to win it as well.

 

[midlifeflyer]

The Debonair (originally called "Model 35-33") was introduced in 1960 as a lower-powered, lower-cost stepsister to the Bonanza line, to compete head-on in the Piper Comanche's price class.

I already mentioned the Deb as a favorite. The Comanche I flew regularly before the Deb was also a great plane. That owl in my avatar is striking on the vertical tail.

Sorry @hindsight2020, I never sat in the back seat of either and both were long enough ago my wife doesn't recall the few times she did. But no passengers ever complained. The front seats of the Deb were a little more comfortable than the Comanche but not by a lot.

One other thing. Nothing I've ever flown lands easier than a straight tail Bonanza.

 

[Tantalum]

Thanks for the replies and thoughts guys! I've been trying to find an affordable, fast, and comfortable plane at the club that I could bring on longer-ish cross country trips. The club here does have a Bonanza but unfortunately I don't meet the hr requirements yet to rent that. There's a Debonair though that rents for a reasonable rate and has had some upgrading to the panel and appears to be in decent shape. Most of the non-Archer/Arrow/Skyhawks at the club actually appear to be in pretty good condition, which I guess that makes sense

It is a nice plane, but it is hard to find a good example, at least when I was looking.

Sounds like someone is eyeballing one for purchase?

I haven't yet found a plane I can become "obsessed" with and set my eyes on as a first plane to purchase. I had a Saratoga/Lance phase, a Cirrus phase, a 210 phase, even a Socata Trinidad phase, etc. I've only ever read good things about Beechcrafts and their handling, and the smaller Debonair does seem like it might be a reasonable plane for someone with my mission profile. Eventually I'd like to purchase so I can outfit how I want, fly it when I want, and not deal with the hassle of scheduling a club plane and always having that "how well is it maintained" voice whispering in my ear. Some day...

 

[Skyrys62]

I haven't yet found a plane I can become "obsessed" with and set my eyes on as a first plane to purchase. I had a Saratoga/Lance phase, a Cirrus phase, a 210 phase, even a Socata Trinidad phase, etc. I've only ever read good things about Beechcrafts and their handling, and the smaller Debonair does seem like it might be a reasonable plane for someone with my mission profile. Eventually I'd like to purchase so I can outfit how I want, fly it when I want, and not deal with the hassle of scheduling a club plane and always having that "how well is it maintained" voice whispering in my ear. Some day...

Pretty much same here. Phases lol.
Archer
182
DA40
172 w/180 conversion
177B (would love it, and probably missed out on this lovely one). https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=169965&listingType=true

The Debonairs look pretty nice.

 

[Sac Arrow]

As much of a Lycoming religious follower as I am, I'm intrigued by the 33 model, especially compared to the Comanches. I've yet to sit in one though, no idea how the backseats compare to the '66+ PA24s or even my PA28. As to mx, I suppose the standard 35 model laundry list of stuff applies to the 33, sans the part-time tail of course. Same regarding the leading edge tanks being forward of the pilot and causing aft cg movement with fuel burn.

I hear performance is not eye-watering with the 225HP engine, they tend to be heavy (1.9-2k# airplanes these days, with a 3050MGW) so their useful is not competitive for the horsepower. They do make an STC to make the IO-470-K into an 260HP -N model or go for full up IO520 conversion, which makes it essentially a "straight tail P35" or C33A respectively.

I'd love to hear real world performance specs for those who have flown the thing with the stock engine; pricing seems competitive if they're truly 155kt machines per the book (my short anecdotal research suggesting they are not).

I was flying a stock Deb for a while. Great plane, and very capable. I did a mountain checkout in it as well. It's the one plane I could point towards Echo Summit from KTVL, hit the gas and fly over it no problem, even in the summer. I couldn't do the same in a 172 or either of the Arrows I've owned.

I also have an uncle in law that owns one as well, and uses it to commute to Colorado and back.

The fly and land great. The do, however, have a funky panel layout, and the flap system is horrid to operate. Also the flap and gear levers look the same, so you are advised to not clean up the plane after landing until you've pulled off the runway and had time to think about things. I don't care for the vernier throttle either.

 

[Tantalum]

177B (would love it, and probably missed out on this lovely one). https://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=169965&listingType=true

Wow, that plane is in great shape and low time for its age. Have always liked Cardinals but there are relatively hard to come by, at least in my experience

My wishlist has "6 place" and a 150 knot cruise or better fairly high on the list. I don't need to transport 6 people, but the extra payload is nice to have as a realistic 4 person plane

 

[Tantalum]

Also the flap and gear levers look the same, so you are advised to not clean up the plane after landing until you've pulled off the runway and had time to think about things. I don't care for the vernier throttle either.

These were my exact same thoughts on that panel. And I've never seriously thought about owning a Beechcraft, despite how well they apparently fly and their external looks, because that yoke layout with the giant bar is just so weird to me. Looking at the panel pictures of it the flap and gear levers seemed dangerously similar and close to each other. And it is nice to know that me, @MetalCloud and @paflyer are not the only ones who don't care for the push pull knobs (Vernier)... <- but the last thread unraveled when I mentioned that about the TTX so we can probably leave that at that lol

If a Debonair though came along for the right price and condition I'd definitely consider it, unless I build my own plane one day everything is going to have some kind of compromise

 

[Sac Arrow]

These were my exact same thoughts on that panel. And I've never seriously thought about owning a Beechcraft, despite how well they apparently fly and their external looks, because that yoke layout with the giant bar is just so weird to me. Looking at the panel pictures of it the flap and gear levers seemed dangerously similar and close to each other. And it is nice to know that me, @MetalCloud and @paflyer are not the only ones who don't care for the push pull knobs (Vernier)... <- but the last thread unraveled when I mentioned that about the TTX so we can probably leave that at that lol

If a Debonair though came along for the right price and condition I'd definitely consider it, unless I build my own plane one day everything is going to have some kind of compromise

Just like anything else you get use to it, and I would be inclined to deal with those issues, as the Debonair is a sweet flying airplane, and very light handling despite the massive appearing yoke. But for clarification, the Debonair throttle is actually a vernier, not just a push-pull.

If you have the money, a later model A36 has conventional yokes and lever controls, and is also a very nice flying airplane. If I had the money to spend on a new Cirrus or Mooney, I'd look at an equivalent priced A36 instead.

 

[hindsight2020]

Does anyone know if either the io470n or the 520 engine stcs increase the MGW? that seems to be one glaring limitation to the model.

 

[Tantalum]

If you have the money

And therein lies the age old dilemma. Save now spend later, or spend now 'cuz life is short

 

[midlifeflyer]

And it is nice to know that me, @MetalCloud and @paflyer are not the only ones who don't care for the push pull knobs (Vernier)

I learnew how to fly in a Piper (lever). Immediately after getting my private, transitioned to a Cessna (vernier). Back and forth for not quite 3 decades, sometimes in the same week.

This is the first time I've heard anyone express a strong preference one way or the other.

 

[GRG55]

Does anyone know if either the io470n or the 520 engine stcs increase the MGW? that seems to be one glaring limitation to the model.

I believe the most popular way to increase the gross on a Bo was to add d'Shannon tip tanks

 

[pkuhns]

I love the 'Deb's'. When AOPA gave away the Debonair a couple of years ago, I wanted to win that plane so bad. That was one nice plane to me.

Can't remember where I saw it, but AOPA said they spent $300k refurbishing that Deb. CRAZY!

 

[jkaduk]

Thanks for the replies and thoughts guys! I've been trying to find an affordable, fast, and comfortable plane at the club that I could bring on longer-ish cross country trips. The club here does have a Bonanza but unfortunately I don't meet the hr requirements yet to rent that. There's a Debonair though that rents for a reasonable rate and has had some upgrading to the panel and appears to be in decent shape.

You must be referring to the Debby in Plus One. It's OK. I wish it had an autopilot. It only has the 1960's wing leveler. Of course on a smooth day it flies pretty much hands off.
The Debby makes a good first step into Bonanza world. Not as fast or as heavy as the later models and the A36, so it's a little easier transition from Archers/Arrows/172s. But once you've tasted an F33, A36, or 285 HP V tail, that 225 HP feels pretty tame. Also has a pretty tiny baggage area. First Debby I flew had a 260 HP upgrade. Nice.
One thing about owning a Debonair - it costs the same to maintain as the higher HP Bonanzas but is about 10 - 15 kts slower.

 

[Tantalum]

@jkaduk thanks for the info! Unfortunately the fleet at SEE isn't great. Pirate Ship is my favorite overall there, despite it being a high wing which I generally don't prefer. All this renting and club business really makes me want my own plane!!

What scares me with airplane ownership is not the upfront cost, you can plan for that pretty reasonably. Like buying a car or a house you know pretty well what you're monthly fixed costs are. But I've read horror stories of plane owners spending $20K-$40K in one year on a single engine 4 seater

Is there such a thing as being house-poor, but for a plane? lol

 

[DoubleD]

I had a '65 C33 with IO-470K and loved it. This was back in the '80's. Flew it TX-SC many times and all over CO. Traded up to an A36 and loved that too, but it wasn't as sweet flying as the Deb. Couple of years ago had the chance to instruct a student who'd bought a Deb and it reminded me how much I liked that plane. A36 is more capable but the Deb lighter on the controls and just more fun.

 

[dmcummins]

I saw your post from another thread and though I would put in my 2 cents here.

When I was looking to buy, 5 years ago, I was looking at F model Mooneys, and 58 and up V tails. At the time the Debonairs were running a little out of my price range for the condition I wanted.

I came across a Debonair that looked good and wasn't to much out of my price range and after some haggling ended up buying it. The wife liked the appearance of the plane so that also went a long way in the decision.

Mine has a useful load of around 1070lbs, and it does not have tips. Which would give me another 200lbs or so.

It also has the 225hp engine that allows me to use Mogas that is available here in Florida. Currently saves me around .75 per gallon at 2.99. I would of coarse like more horsepower, but here at sea level the plane performed well enough. And the fuel savings do add up over time. When it comes time for overhaul I don't know if I will upgrade or not.

It can do 160 knots down low and putting a lot of fuel thru. On longer trips I generally see around 150knts at 12gph. On shorter trips 145 knots at around 11gph. I generally fly between 5000-8000'.

I fly with 4 quite a bit, everyone that comes to visit wants to fly down to Key West. No one has complained about room in the back, but this is a hour in the air trip with another 15 min or so on the ground.

Over the last 5 years I've flown 500hrs and maintenance runs around $3000 per year. Add close to $2000 for the annual. But that is at the local Cirrus service center. This year I'm trying a different IA and it will be a little less. Also hopefully I've replaced a lot of the wear items and nothing big will show up this year.

I'm sure if I found a Mooney that I liked I would be happy with it as well. They burn a little less gas, but I would have to pay more for the gas. I still buy quite a bit of 100ll on trips. I'm guessing 50%.

The F models were a little slower I think and the Js were just more than I wanted to spend. Not sure about prices now.

If I was looking today I would still look at V tails and Debonairs, and Mooneys. Then buy the one that was in my price range that I felt was the best value.

But if the wife says she likes the green one, I'll buy the green one and make it work.

 

[Tantalum]

Thanks for the comprehensive response @dmcummins !
150 knots and 12 gph is pretty reasonable, I like how solid the Beechcraft look and the Deb certainly has nice ramp appeal to it

But if the wife says she likes the green one, I'll buy the green one and make it work.

Ultimately that is what it comes down to. So far she hates Archers and Warriors, likes the Skyhawks, and loves the Cirrus. I don't see myself owning more than one plan in my life so I don't mind waiting and saving and eventually buying something we're both happy with