Dead Battery : Best Options?

Baking soda is only OK, as it has no acid indicator, and is messy. Ammonia is simply preposterous.

The way to clean the area is a commercial product.

crc-05023-battery-cleaner-acid-indicator-12-oz_1863025.jpg
 
3393RP said:
What problems do you anticipate by using a half cup of household ammonia cleaner diluted in a couple gallons of water, which is then rinsed thoroughly?

That's a 2% solution, and the household ammonia is only a 5-10% concentration of ammonium hydroxide. That's pretty weak.

I'm aware a scrap of aluminum placed in undiluted household ammonia will reduce into a gelatinous mass. It will do the same if immersed in battery electrolyte solution.

In the past I have used ammonia at the concentration I mentioned above and it does not impart discoloration on the aluminum.

The error in my original post was not specifying the proper dilution to avoid discoloration and not emphasizing a thorough rinsing is required, but that applies to baking soda as well.
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You have a choice. Use a product known to corrode aluminum or use a product that doesn't corrode aluminum. Hmmm. Tough one. I think I'll choose the non-corrosive one every time. You are choosing clean up convenience over corrosion. Maybe that makes you happy.
 
denverpilot said:
Just don't try to take an Instrument checkride in it! ;) (Clock from ship's power, required.)
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Strange. I don't see that requirement here:
FAR 91.205 said:
(d) Instrument flight rules. For IFR flight, the following instruments and equipment are required:
(1) Instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (b) of this section, and, for night flight, instruments and equipment specified in paragraph (c) of this section.
(2) Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown.
(3) Gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, except on the following aircraft:
(i) Airplanes with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of 360 degrees of pitch and roll and installed in accordance with the instrument requirements prescribed in §121.305(j) of this chapter; and
(ii) Rotorcraft with a third attitude instrument system usable through flight attitudes of ±80 degrees of pitch and ±120 degrees of roll and installed in accordance with §29.1303(g) of this chapter.
(4) Slip-skid indicator.
(5) Sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure.
(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation.
(7) Generator or alternator of adequate capacity.
(8) Gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon).
(9) Gyroscopic direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent).
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bluerooster said:
Strange. I don't see that requirement here:
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Technically the ship's power isn't required, the old windup clocks will also do... just don't see them much anymore.

But like I said, try taking a checkride with a dead/disconnected one in the panel, maybe toss in a portable one... e.g. "I'm wearing a watch"... or "I duct taped this battery operated one to the panel"... and report back success rate... :)

Anyway, as it relates to batteries, it's just an example of "always on" stuff unless you dig around somewhere inconvenient and find the fuse feeding it and pull it.
 
denverpilot said:
Technically the ship's power isn't required, the old windup clocks will also do... just don't see them much anymore.

But like I said, try taking a checkride with a dead/disconnected one in the panel, maybe toss in a portable one... e.g. "I'm wearing a watch"... or "I duct taped this battery operated one to the panel"... and report back success rate... :)

Anyway, as it relates to batteries, it's just an example of "always on" stuff unless you dig around somewhere inconvenient and find the fuse feeding it and pull it.
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My clock is not connected, nor is it dead, (unless I forget to wind it). ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Technically the ship's power isn't required, the old windup clocks will also do... just don't see them much anymore.

But like I said, try taking a checkride with a dead/disconnected one in the panel, maybe toss in a portable one... e.g. "I'm wearing a watch"... or "I duct taped this battery operated one to the panel"... and report back success rate... :)

Anyway, as it relates to batteries, it's just an example of "always on" stuff unless you dig around somewhere inconvenient and find the fuse feeding it and pull it.
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The C-172 I've done most of my instrument training in qualifies because the last page of the Garmin G??-100 has a clock. Only one in the aircraft. Which is pretty much useless for actual flying but according to the owner/chief instructor it counts and he regularly filed IFR in it.
 
Yes, either straight binary (1, 2, 4, 8) and by digital rules, you can do hours, minutes, and seconds all in one long line if you wish. The pansies can do BCD if they must. Let's see now, 86,400 seconds in a day means that 2^17 will be the MSD, so 18 LEDs across will do it. Let's see now, BCD will require 6 LEDS for hours, 7 for minutes, and 7 for seconds. Hm.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Yes, either straight binary (1, 2, 4, 8) and by digital rules, you can do hours, minutes, and seconds all in one long line if you wish. The pansies can do BCD if they must. Let's see now, 86,400 seconds in a day means that 2^17 will be the MSD, so 18 LEDs across will do it. Let's see now, BCD will require 6 LEDS for hours, 7 for minutes, and 7 for seconds. Hm.

Jim
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They sell them for like $5 on eBay, but making one is more fun. ;)
 
jsstevens said:
The C-172 I've done most of my instrument training in qualifies because the last page of the Garmin G??-100 has a clock. Only one in the aircraft. Which is pretty much useless for actual flying but according to the owner/chief instructor it counts and he regularly filed IFR in it.
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Yup. Dumb ain't it? ;)
 
weirdjim said:
Yes, either straight binary (1, 2, 4, 8) and by digital rules, you can do hours, minutes, and seconds all in one long line if you wish. The pansies can do BCD if they must. Let's see now, 86,400 seconds in a day means that 2^17 will be the MSD, so 18 LEDs across will do it. Let's see now, BCD will require 6 LEDS for hours, 7 for minutes, and 7 for seconds. Hm.

Jim
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How about we do a clock displayed in Unix time Jim? That ought to be quite useful in the cockpit. Haha.

Plus I like saying the word Epoch. :)
 
denverpilot said:
Just don't try to take an Instrument checkride in it! ;) (Clock from ship's power, required.)
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No, an electric clock with ship,power is not required. Installed wind-up clocks were installed and legal years before electric clocks existed and are still legal for IFR. I was really annoyed when the jeweler finally gave up on my Wakmann because there are no parts anymore, and even he agreed I didn't want to pay him what it would cost for him to hand make the parts. It lasted 40 years.
 
murphey said:
No, an electric clock with ship,power is not required. Installed wind-up clocks were installed and legal years before electric clocks existed and are still legal for IFR. I was really annoyed when the jeweler finally gave up on my Wakmann because there are no parts anymore, and even he agreed I didn't want to pay him what it would cost for him to hand make the parts. It lasted 40 years.
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You had a wind-up Walkman?! ;)

1036c0f051ab0e712edb30d64d995d71.jpg
 
bluerooster said:
Ammonia+Aluminum=Hydrogen gas, add a spark into the mix and .... well...."OH The Humanities" comes to mind.
Oh, and another thing, Less aluminum as well. even without the spark.
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You're being ridiculous. A weak solution of household ammonia in a large amount of water isn't going to produce any measurable amount of hydrogen.

It's not going to have corrosive effects on aluminum either. At the concentration I mentioned it's enough to neutralize the pH of battery acids and not much more. When rinsed with water it effectively disappears.
 
AKBill said:
I separated it on my plane. yah I have to set it every time I fly, my choice.
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Probably smart. Most of them are located somewhere useless in the panel anyway, and a watch works. Unless it's a Garmin pilot watch, that is. LOL.
 
denverpilot said:
Probably smart. Most of them are located somewhere useless in the panel anyway, and a watch works. Unless it's a Garmin pilot watch, that is. LOL.
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The thing I like about the panel mounted clock is that I only have to look at the position of the second hand. No number to remember. Other folks will have other prefs. Timers are a horrible bother.
 
Clark1961 said:
The thing I like about the panel mounted clock is that I only have to look at the position of the second hand. No number to remember. Other folks will have other prefs. Timers are a horrible bother.
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Cessna mounted mine down where it's pretty much impossible to see. Meets the IFR requirement is about all it does down there while it gets ignored.

It has little red hands that can be moved separate of the white ones that are the clock itself, so I do use it -- I set the little red hands at engine start as about the fourth backup to three other devices that can tell me how long the engine has been turning.

All in all, extremely useless.

Cessna also mounts the vacuum gauge directly behind the yoke tube. Brilliant. LOL. Because everyone should have to peek around the yoke tube to see if the vacuum has failed in IMC.

Old cockpits have some exceedingly stupid ergonomics.
 
denverpilot said:
Cessna mounted mine down where it's pretty much impossible to see. Meets the IFR requirement is about all it does down there while it gets ignored.

It has little red hands that can be moved separate of the white ones that are the clock itself, so I do use it -- I set the little red hands at engine start as about the fourth backup to three other devices that can tell me how long the engine has been turning.

All in all, extremely useless.

Cessna also mounts the vacuum gauge directly behind the yoke tube. Brilliant. LOL. Because everyone should have to peek around the yoke tube to see if the vacuum has failed in IMC.

Old cockpits have some exceedingly stupid ergonomics.
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Piper is a little better. My clock is useful but the suck gauge is out of sight on the right. It does have idiot lights for several params in view though.
 
bnt83 said:
Be careful! Batteries can release hydrogen and are a fire/explosion hazard when messing with them. Read the manual carefully.
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Spot on. My dad taught me for years to never stand over/look at a battery while jumping off a car. I saw one explode about a month ago. At first I thought it was a bomb going off, then I realized what had happened.
 
rt4388 said:
Spot on. My dad taught me for years to never stand over/look at a battery while jumping off a car. I saw one explode about a month ago. At first I thought it was a bomb going off, then I realized what had happened.
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Nowadays I often think twice before jumping any cars because the moron will sue you when they need to replace $5000 worth of computers in the thing. Always have jumper cables. Very reluctant to use them on anything new. They can call AAA and let the roadside guy blow up their fancy electronics.
 
rt4388 said:
Spot on. My dad taught me for years to never stand over/look at a battery while jumping off a car. I saw one explode about a month ago. At first I thought it was a bomb going off, then I realized what had happened.
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Most probably know this, but the ground cable for the jumped vehicle should be the last attached, and then to a ground a distance from the battery, not the ground terminal. If a spark occurs, best for it not to be in the vicinity of the battery. I've had two batteries explode - one mentioned upthread - but both were unattended when it happened.
 
I had one explode when simply starting the car. It made an impressive mess and taught me not to be close when jumping them. Blew the entire top off the battery and showered the inside of the engine compartment with acid. Fortunately in the driveway and I just hosed it out.

John
 
denverpilot said:
Nowadays I often think twice before jumping any cars because the moron will sue you when they need to replace $5000 worth of computers in the thing. Always have jumper cables. Very reluctant to use them on anything new. They can call AAA and let the roadside guy blow up their fancy electronics.
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Mostly useless trivia: the Camaro has jumper cable attachment points under the hood. The battery is in the trunk. No spare tire so battery in the trunk makes sense from a weight distribution point of view.

Anyway, at least someone at chevy was thinking about practical matters when designing an impractical car.
 
Clark1961 said:
Mostly useless trivia: the Camaro has jumper cable attachment points under the hood. The battery is in the trunk. No spare tire so battery in the trunk makes sense from a weight distribution point of view.

Anyway, at least someone at chevy was thinking about practical matters when designing an impractical car.
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My mini is the same way.
 
I had a Concorde for 7 years. My mechanic replaced it with a Gill that lasted 2 years so I wanted my sealed battery back. It was replaced with a Concorde that has only lasted 3 years so far and looks like it needs to be replaced. The first Concorde was a 35AXC; the second an current battery is just a 35A - should have stuck with the more powerful battery.

In checking my battery I noted that it really isn't sealed. There is a rectangular cap that is flush with the battery top face and underneath are screw caps just like a regular battery, however they have a valve inside and porous tops on them. I opened one up and I couldn't see any water, just the tops of the plates.

We are told you can't add water but what the heck, shouldn't it have some? I've added some and its on a charger but am a little reluctant to use it. Does anyone know what the real story is with this battery?
 
flyzone said:
We are told you can't add water but what the heck, shouldn't it have some?
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Not sure where that came from. YES, you can always add water, preferably distilled, to some predetermined level in the battery. And the plates should always be covered. It's acid that should never be added
 
FastEddieB said:
Not sure where that came from. YES, you can always add water, preferably distilled, to some predetermined level in the battery. And the plates should always be covered. It's acid that should never be added
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I thought the whole idea of a "sealed" battery (which it apparently isn't) was to make it maintenance free, including water. It says so right in the battery spec (no water). I'm wondering if I got some kind of bastard battery. It is marked as an RG35A.

http://www.concordebattery.com/flyer.php?id=37
 
flyzone said:
I thought the whole idea of a "sealed" battery (which it apparently isn't) was to make it maintenance free, including water. It says so right in the battery spec (no water). I'm wondering if I got some kind of bastard battery. It is marked as an RG35A.

http://www.concordebattery.com/flyer.php?id=37
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I just had a conversation with a tech at Concorde. I got some info that explains my problems. The first was that there really is no such thing as a "sealed" battery. All of these type batteries have caps and can lose water. They don't lose water if the charging system is functioning correctly. I had an alternator replacement last year and that may have played a part in a overcharging situation that could have toasted the battery. Also, I left the master switch on twice that I can recall and that takes a permanent toll on the battery once it happens. Once a battery goes below 9v it is damaged even though it may function but it has lost permanent capacity. Each time you do so takes another chunk out of the total battery capacity. So, it's new battery time for me.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Wash the battery itself with water.
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This is good advice that I learned in an automotive education class in high school 50 years ago. The instructor asked someone in class to bring their car around. We disconnected the battery and measured the current flowing over the battery case. It was low but measurable. Then we washed and scrubbed the battery with water and measured again. No drain. Many batteries could be saved just by washing them. (Of course, this was 50 years ago, and with a car battery).
 
JOhnH said:
This is good advice that I learned in an automotive education class in high school 50 years ago. The instructor asked someone in class to bring their car around. We disconnected the battery and measured the current flowing over the battery case. It was low but measurable. Then we washed and scrubbed the battery with water and measured again. No drain. Many batteries could be saved just by washing them. (Of course, this was 50 years ago, and with a car battery).
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You'll have to use certificated water to do that on an airplane battery. I think Gulfstream, being located in Wisconsin, is entering this business using filtered water from the Fox River. You can buy an 8 oz bottle of their certificated water for $95.00.
 
JOhnH said:
This is good advice that I learned in an automotive education class in high school 50 years ago. The instructor asked someone in class to bring their car around. We disconnected the battery and measured the current flowing over the battery case. It was low but measurable. Then we washed and scrubbed the battery with water and measured again. No drain. Many batteries could be saved just by washing them. (Of course, this was 50 years ago, and with a car battery).
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It's still good advice. I learned to use nearly boiling hot water to remove corrosion and clean the battery. When auto batteries went low maintenance the corrosion problems dropped so got out of the habit of being diligent with the battery. The 'Kota had a Gill when I bought it so had to be diligent for awhile. AGM in it now so no problems for last few years.
 
I've cleaned auto batteries in the past with water and baking soda which helps with cleaning corrosion and even dirt, grease and oil, then dousing with plain water. My protected aircraft battery just doesn't get very dirty and very little if any corrosion so just wiping it down is usually just fine.
 
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