De-icing an airplane - what to use?

TMetzinger

TMetzinger

Final Approach
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Tim
I vaguely recall using a mix of polypropylene glycol (safe antifreeze) and warm water to defrost the Mooney I used to be a partner in. The warm water did the work and the antifreeze lowers the freezing point and helps prevent refreezing.

I'm pretty sure it was paint-friendly. What do you all use?
 
Try a rock salt and warm alcohol slurry.
Try not to rub in the rock salt too much, as it might scratch the paint.
 
credit cards are hard on the paint. heat seems to work best.
 
gismo said:
If that doesn't work get out the belt sander.
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I did that once while renting a 172, and the FBO got awfully upset.
You see, all of the ice and paint I sanded off clogged up the sander, and the belt was totally shot. I had to buy them a new belt.
 
TMetzinger said:
I vaguely recall using a mix of polypropylene glycol (safe antifreeze) and warm water to defrost the Mooney I used to be a partner in. The warm water did the work and the antifreeze lowers the freezing point and helps prevent refreezing.
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Seems like I remember that too, in a garden pump sprayer.
 
I had a Mirage come in once. When I was looking it over I noticed that it had been through a bad hail storm. When I brought it up to the owner he quietly told me that he had used a hammer to remove the ice off his own airplane one morning.

I don't recommend the hammer method, results are ugly.

Kevin

.
 
I have heard of putting warm water in a trash bag, as much as it can handle without ripping, then dragging it slowly across the area to deice.
 
Hangar is the best thing to use. It doesn't take more than about 30 minutes in a heated hangar to get the ice off typically. At Ames, we thought about using this:

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I did once bang some ice off the plane (post-landing) with a small ball-peen hangar on the Aztec. The plane suffered no dents (well, no more than it already had). But that was also a pretty small amount, and came off easily with some tapping. It just needed more than I felt like doing with my fist, especially given how cold it was.
 
I've heard that 100LL works. Never tried it myself.

I've used a Red Dragon and a moving blanket. Worked well until the blanket started smoldering.
 
Brush off what you can and wait...
Usually not more than a day or two.

Now I have a hangar.
With a door.
That really works.
And electricity.
I can actually pre-heat.

Way cool.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Brush off what you can and wait...
Usually not more than a day or two.

Now I have a hangar.
With a door.
That really works.
And electricity.
I can actually pre-heat.

Way cool.
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I had an unheated hangar, with a bi-fold door that really worked, and electricity.

But some slacked-jaw oxygen-thief didn't properly grade in front of the hangar. As a result, runoff from the roof would puddle in front of the hangar creating a patch of ice. This ice would sneak under the door, creating a slipping hazard when walking through the access door. The ice would also occasionally freeze the bi-fold door shut. For these features the monthly rent is more than $640/month. Thank you ma$$port. (but I'm not bitter)

Now I have the airplane in a heated hangar (but no time to fly...dang it).
 
Bob Noel said:
I had an unheated hangar, with a bi-fold door that really worked, and electricity.

But some slacked-jaw oxygen-thief didn't properly grade in front of the hangar. As a result, runoff from the roof would puddle in front of the hangar creating a patch of ice. This ice would sneak under the door, creating a slipping hazard when walking through the access door. The ice would also occasionally freeze the bi-fold door shut. For these features the monthly rent is more than $640/month. Thank you ma$$port. (but I'm not bitter)
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Thanks for the reminder (really).

Water runs under my door and I expect that I will have ice on the floor during the winter. I need to remember to stock up on sawdust and take some to the airport to spread on the ice.

Dunno (yet) if the door will freeze shut.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Thanks for the reminder (really).

Water runs under my door and I expect that I will have ice on the floor during the winter. I need to remember to stock up on sawdust and take some to the airport to spread on the ice.
.
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At the access door I used mats thick enough that any ice wouldn't form on top of the mat. When I vacated the hangar I gave the mats to the guy in the next hangar - he had warned me about the ice and previously had fallen and injured his back when he slipped on the <expletives deleted> ice.
 
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Just take off and get above the clouds and let the sun do the work.

joke only
 
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I use a mix of the pink prop glycol stuff they sell for winterizing RV water systems and some of the blue methylene window washer fluid (3 parts pink to one part blue) in a good quality garden sprayer. Works great. I then went and bought wing and horiz stab covers for the plane last week after freezing my a** off 3 mornings in a row....
 
kmead said:
I had a Mirage come in once. When I was looking it over I noticed that it had been through a bad hail storm. When I brought it up to the owner he quietly told me that he had used a hammer to remove the ice off his own airplane one morning.

I don't recommend the hammer method, results are ugly.

Kevin

.
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A hammer.....on a Mirage? Was he trying to get that Spirit of St Louis look?
 
Steve Foley said:
I've heard that 100LL works. Never tried it myself.
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That would work pretty well if you added a lit match. The side effects might be undesirable though.

I've used a Red Dragon and a moving blanket. Worked well until the blanket started smoldering.
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See above WRT undesirable side effects.
 
The writeup in NTSB reporter is going to sound very favorable in regards to pilot decision making. Not using deice fluid off the truck from the FBO will leave the lawyers circling like buzzards after fresh meat. All you have to do is deviate from the manufacturers procedures and approved fluids and you are all done. The fault will be yours.
 
LearDriver said:
The writeup in NTSB reporter is going to sound very favorable in regards to pilot decision making. Not using deice fluid off the truck from the FBO will leave the lawyers circling like buzzards after fresh meat. All you have to do is deviate from the manufacturers procedures and approved fluids and you are all done. The fault will be yours.
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Then the buzzards have been or will be hovering over just about EVERY pilot owner who fliles out of my home base....baloney: show me anywhere in the FAR/AIM that talks about an approved fluid for dealing with ice/frost on the plane prior to flight, for part 91 ops. I am not speaking to the stupidity of flight with ice or frost collection on the surfaces, thats understood...what you use on the plane to clear surfaces is just NOT a regulatory thing outside of part 121 (121.629 I believe).
 
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DutchessFlier said:
Then the buzzards have been or will be hovering over just about EVERY pilot owner who fliles out of my home base....baloney: show me anywhere in the FAR/AIM that talks about an approved fluid for dealing with ice/frost on the plane prior to flight, for part 91 ops. I am not speaking to the stupidity of flight with ice or frost collection on the surfaces, thats understood...what you use on the plane to clear surfaces is just NOT a regulatory thing outside of part 121 (121.629 I believe).
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135 its in your op specs. For 91 you have guidelines in the AFM. Which tells you that you can't operate outside of the limitations section.

The major problem with the homemade deice fluids is that there is no published holdover times. If you exceed the holdover time of the mix then you can actually have the fluid refreeze. With the fluid off of the truck you can get a holdover time established.

The AC's are just as valid as the FAR/AIM on guidance materials. There is a lot of good information in those circulars.

To be quite honest light aircraft shouldn't depart unless the are completely clean without using fluid. Without deice or anti ice systems there is no way to get rid of any accumulation other than getting to warmer air temperature. If there is icing conditions present that will normally go against the limitations on the aircraft.
 
LearDriver said:
135 its in your op specs. For 91 you have guidelines in the AFM. Which tells you that you can't operate outside of the limitations section.

The major problem with the homemade deice fluids is that there is no published holdover times. If you exceed the holdover time of the mix then you can actually have the fluid refreeze. With the fluid off of the truck you can get a holdover time established.

The AC's are just as valid as the FAR/AIM on guidance materials. There is a lot of good information in those circulars.

To be quite honest light aircraft shouldn't depart unless the are completely clean without using fluid. Without deice or anti ice systems there is no way to get rid of any accumulation other than getting to warmer air temperature. If there is icing conditions present that will normally go against the limitations on the aircraft.
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Again, I am not disputing the spirit or intent of what you say, far from it. I have discussed this very issue with aviation attorneys: for ops in my aircraft, as per the POH (which does not speak to ops specifically dealing with airframe ice/frost other than FIKI) if I perform due dilligence, as PIC, clear the aircraft of all known contamination which would affect the performance of the aircraft, the 'buzzards' would have no grounds to gather. I have gone through this very issue with the FSDO, FBO operators on my field, and owners with many thousands of hours more experience than I who have operated in cold weather their whole careers here.
 
LearDriver said:
The writeup in NTSB reporter is going to sound very favorable in regards to pilot decision making. Not using deice fluid off the truck from the FBO will leave the lawyers circling like buzzards after fresh meat. All you have to do is deviate from the manufacturers procedures and approved fluids and you are all done. The fault will be yours.
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What is this truck you speak of? Unless you're at an airport with 135 operators on the field it's quite likely the FBO won't have any sort of de-icing solution except maybe an (already full) hangar.

And what manufacturer procedures are published for an Arrow II?

There are some aircraft that do specify de-icing procedures in their POH/AFM. Most piston singles don't beyond saying "get the ice off before flying".

And part of the process should be to wipe the surfaces dry after melting, unless the temps are already above freezing and you were just accelerating the melting process.
 
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LearDriver said:
For 91 you have guidelines in the AFM. Which tells you that you can't operate outside of the limitations section.
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Can you give an example in the limitations section of an AFM of a small airplane which points out what type of deicing fluid is necessary?
 
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Follow the advice of the J Geils Band: "I'm just trying to hold it steady while I P*&% on the wing."
 
Steve Foley said:
Follow the advice of the J Geils Band: "I'm just trying to hold it steady while I P*&% on the wing."
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Now that would take one heck of a long time......I say cut out the middle-man and pour the coffee straight on the wings!
 
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