DC SFRA flight plan - time restriction?

[JasonM]

I'm going in the SFRA either this evening or tomorrow for the first time. I really feel confident thanks to all your help if previous posts. Just have 1 question.

If I file the flight plan's through ForeFlight with estimated times of entry and departure now, how strict are they with those times?

Lets say I file with an entry time of 3:30 PM (converted to zulu) and I dont actually enter until 6 PM. Is this going to cause any problems? or will the flight plan still be accessible by ATC as normal? Also, what if I was earlier than my estimated time?

Thanks..

 

[weilke]

-30min +2hrs is what I remember.

You own a cellular phone ? Just call it in right before you depart. Unless this is the end of a continent spanning trip, you should know your arrival time +/- one hour.

 

[Paul Hamilton]

You can be up to one half hour early or two hours late. SFRA flight strips follow the same rules as those for IFR flights.

 

[flyingron]

Unlike the FRZ however, if they don't have your plan when you get there (because you're late or whatever), you can pop over to FSS and airfile (or just ask for IFR if you're capable of doing that).

 

[Brad Z]

You can also file repeating flight plans for every 2 1/2 hours so you're covered. You might not make any friends at Potomac Tracon, but you could file them for all day (not recommended). I've done to back to back so I had a 5 hour window, though. It's a bigger deal for me since I'm in the FRZ and have to file by phone.

 

[JasonM]

That helps. I now know there is a time window of 1/2 hour early to 2 hours late. i'll make sure to be within that time span on my planning which should be no problem.

Thanks!

 

[wsuffa]

That helps. I now know there is a time window of 1/2 hour early to 2 hours late. i'll make sure to be within that time span on my planning which should be no problem.

Thanks!

And the end-time to time window applies to when you make contact with the Potomac controllers on your SFRA plan. So if you make contact with them & request your squawk, say, 15 minutes before entering the SFRA you should still be OK.

 

[flyingron]

And the end-time to time window applies to when you make contact with the Potomac controllers on your SFRA plan. So if you make contact with them & request your squawk, say, 15 minutes before entering the SFRA you should still be OK.

Yes, there's no "time limit" on entering the SFRA. What we're talking about is when the computer tosses your filed but unactivated flight plan out. Actually, I haven't tried it myself, but talking to the controllers at PCT a while back stated that they aren't the "flight plan" police. If you insist that you filed one, and they have time ton manually request a squawk, they would.

 

[poadeleted20]

Yes, there's no "time limit" on entering the SFRA. What we're talking about is when the computer tosses your filed but unactivated flight plan out. Actually, I haven't tried it myself, but talking to the controllers at PCT a while back stated that they aren't the "flight plan" police. If you insist that you filed one, and they have time ton manually request a squawk, they would.

About a week ago I was headed to KFME from KSBY, with flight following from Patuxent. I'd filed my DC SFRA flight plan, but when PXT handed me to Potomac, the PTC controller asked, "Do you have a flight plan on file?" "Uh-oh," I thought, then said "Uh, yes." "OK," says the controller, "remain on present squawk, remain outside of Bravo, and report Tipton in sight." Whatever you say, hoss.

 

[wsuffa]

Yes, there's no "time limit" on entering the SFRA. What we're talking about is when the computer tosses your filed but unactivated flight plan out. Actually, I haven't tried it myself, but talking to the controllers at PCT a while back stated that they aren't the "flight plan" police. If you insist that you filed one, and they have time ton manually request a squawk, they would.

Yeah, my comment didn't come out right.

If you've filed for say, 3:30 and it's approaching 5:30, call Potomac and get your squawk by 5:30 even if you're 10-15 minutes from penetrating. Gives you a little extra time.

And yes, they will work something out - I filed with FSS one day before leaving FFA & Potomac didn't have it as I approached BRV. They manually entered it & gave me a squawk. One of those "lost in the FSS computer" days.

 

[weilke]

Yes, there's no "time limit" on entering the SFRA. What we're talking about is when the computer tosses your filed but unactivated flight plan out. Actually, I haven't tried it myself, but talking to the controllers at PCT a while back stated that they aren't the "flight plan" police. If you insist that you filed one, and they have time ton manually request a squawk, they would.

I have overheard some back and forth on the SFRA frequency that suggest that they can issue a squawk if they want to. A pilot insisted that he had filed but the controller didn't have a strip. After a 'standby', they issued a local squawk that was something like 0010 rather than the 53xx that comes from the NAS computer.

 

[JasonM]

I know another Question actually. If i'm on flight following and already been assigned a squawk code, do I need to ask for a new one when handed over to Potomac? will I have already been accepted into the SFRA?

 

[weilke]

I know another Question actually. If i'm on flight following and already been assigned a squawk code, do I need to ask for a new one when handed over to Potomac? will I have already been accepted into the SFRA?

I have been on FF from other facilities when I got a 'for entry into the SFRA, squawk 53xx' with a change in code. Sometimes they change the squawk, sometimes they dont (seems to be the case if you picked up your squawk directly with potomac). You want to hear some clear acknowledgement that they know you are heading into the SFRA, it is not automatic.

 

[flyingron]

The requirements are
1. You've filed a flight plan.
2. You're squawking a discrete code
3. You'"re in communications with PCT.

There's no requirement for any correlation between the code and the flight plan. The fact they make you file a plan at all is purely because they copied the requirements (thinning them down a bit) from the FRZ procedure (and besides we can't have pilots flying around without plans). The SFRA operational instructions to get them in as IFR plans so a squawk is automatically issued, is purely for the convenience of the PCT SFRA watching controller.

This is distinct from the FRZ where your plan (and it's associated squawk) causes additional notfications to those watching the close in stuff. The only guy watching the SFRA itself for bogies is an ATC sitting at a special position in Vint Hill. There are better guys (who can see down to the surface) watching the FRZ.

 

[jpower]

I know another Question actually. If i'm on flight following and already been assigned a squawk code, do I need to ask for a new one when handed over to Potomac? will I have already been accepted into the SFRA?

I never have been. At one point I was on flight following from the Philly area for Leesburg JYO and I kept the same code from Philly Approach all the way to the ground at JYO.

 

[catmandu]

About a week ago I was headed to KFME from KSBY, with flight following from Patuxent. I'd filed my DC SFRA flight plan, but when PXT handed me to Potomac, the PTC controller asked, "Do you have a flight plan on file?" "Uh-oh," I thought, then said "Uh, yes." "OK," says the controller, "remain on present squawk, remain outside of Bravo, and report Tipton in sight." Whatever you say, hoss.

Yep, remember that little tidbit (as should everyone): If asked if you filed a flight plan, just say YES!

They won't inquire if it is minus some time or plus some time, they just want to know that you filed a flight plan.

Everybody happy happy happy!

 

[wsuffa]

Yep, remember that little tidbit (as should everyone): If asked if you filed a flight plan, just say YES!

They won't inquire if it is minus some time or plus some time, they just want to know that you filed a flight plan.

Everybody happy happy happy!

Beware... I have heard them deny entry and force aircraft to call FSS to file on occasions where there is no flight plan for whatever reason. It's really not that hard - file as you get to your launch airport and estimate the ETA.

 

[poadeleted20]

I know another Question actually. If i'm on flight following and already been assigned a squawk code, do I need to ask for a new one when handed over to Potomac? will I have already been accepted into the SFRA?

You do not need to ask for another squawk -- the one you're on will do just fine as long as it's not 1200.

 

[poadeleted20]

Beware... I have heard them deny entry and force aircraft to call FSS to file on occasions where there is no flight plan for whatever reason. It's really not that hard - file as you get to your launch airport and estimate the ETA.

If you really filed it, just say "yes" even if the time is off by an hour or two, but if you really didn't file it, don't lie to them.

 

[Spinwmts]

I know this is an outdated thread but I just wanted to share my ridiculous story w P Approach and the SFRA:

I'll try to make it a tad shorter than my NASA report

I was SE of the SFRA on flight following for JYO. I had not filed a SFRA FP because I was planning on an ingress from the West of JYO (which only requires you to squawk 1227 and talk). While on flight following I was handed off to a controller who ultimately advised me to enter the SFRA and fly direct to JYO and to change my Squawk to 1227. I knew this was the incorrect procedure for entering the SFRA from the SE (WHINO GATE), and reminded the controller that I did not file a SFRA FP and asked him 3 times to confirm his instruction, which he answered "Affirmative, Squawk 1227, fly direct to Leesburg, Remain clear of class Bravo"....So I entered the SFRA, was handed off to another Controller and was quickly reprimanded for entering the SFRA, reminded of the correct procedures for entering leesburg under 1227 and told to exist immediately!
Sorry such as long story but it being my final XC solo, it definitely left an impression when dealing with the SFRA! Looking back I should have denied clearance and continued on my planned route which remained clear of the SFRA. But what a way to ruin an otherwise perfect flight! The entire way back I monitored PA waiting for them to call me up and give me a number to dial after landing.

 

[Spinwmts]

But the main reason I started reading this thread was to get an answer to a question regarding flight plans... I think I know the answer but I don't want to take any chances;
If you file a flight plan but do not activate it, is there any action you should take? Or does the system simply kick it out 2 hours after ETD, no harm no foul?

 

[weilke]

If you file a flight plan but do not activate it, is there any action you should take? Or does the system simply kick it out 2 hours after ETD, no harm no foul?

They dont come looking for you if you worry about that. You file the plan, you dont need it, it times out. No prejudice for a future plan either.

 

[Spinwmts]

Great, That's pretty much what I thought, but just wanted to make sure. Thanks!

 

[poadeleted20]

If you file a flight plan but do not activate it, is there any action you should take?

No.

Or does the system simply kick it out 2 hours after ETD, no harm no foul?

Yes.

 

[Brad Z]

Looking back I should have denied clearance and continued on my planned route which remained clear of the SFRA. But what a way to ruin an otherwise perfect flight! The entire way back I monitored PA waiting for them to call me up and give me a number to dial after landing.

Or just file an SFRA flight plan from WHINO to JYO. You can do it on you iPad if you're low enough to have coverage.

You're correct though, the controller was misunderstood.

Coming all the way around, I'd also suggest also asking for a bravo clearance, which occasionally you can get. Then again, you, as a student pilot, will need an endorsement from your instructor to fly in class B.

 

[Spinwmts]

Coming all the way around, I'd also suggest also asking for a bravo clearance, which occasionally you can get. Then again, you, as a student pilot, will need an endorsement from your instructor to fly in class B.

Yeah, on a similar XC flight with my instructor we were vectored right over Dulles, the moved saved us easily 15-20 minutes and was quite a sight to take in (for a new pilot)! Now I don't hesitate to ask for Bravo clearance for both those reasons.

 

[poadeleted20]

You're correct though, the controller was misunderstood.

It's not that "the controller was misunderstood," it's that the controller screwed up big time. That, no doubt, is why the OP heard nothing further about it, and the controller who told the OP to squawk 1227 will be lucky if the next controller doesn't report the first controller to the bosses for such an error.

 

[Brad Z]

It's not that "the controller was misunderstood," it's that the controller screwed up big time. That, no doubt, is why the OP heard nothing further about it, and the controller who told the OP to squawk 1227 will be lucky if the next controller doesn't report the first controller to the bosses for such an error.

Pardon my euphemism, but occasionally "misunderstandings" of the rules happen with newbies working the scopes. I once had one of the SFRA controllers tell me I couldn't circle over Mallows Bay returning to VKX. While VKX is inside the FRZ, which does not allow loitering, Mallows Bay is down by Quantico and no such provision exists. After pleading my case briefly on the radio, the controller insisted so I called the Supv back on the ground and presumably education took place.