DA-42

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John Myers

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Display name:
John Myers
Does anyone know how well the DA-42 VI's are selling? I have been checking controller.com for months and have only seen one real airplane (not an ad for a new one) and that's in Europe. Given it's been out for a few years, I'd have expected to see a few by now. I have also never seen one on a ramp anywhere.

I'd love to buy one (and find a partner here in Denver), but unwilling to take the first year depreciation hit.

The visibility is Amazing, and the DA-40s don't have TKS, which makes it a no-go for planning trips in the winter here.
 
I know a guy who has one (he's dropped in at my field a few times), and he shows his off on behalf of Diamond at some of the shows. I don't think they've sold that many in the US which is why there aren't a whole lot on the used market.

I can dig up probably Dave's email address if you want to ask him some questions.
 
There are two of them in the hangar attached to the building where my office is. One with the original Thielert engines and one with the Austros; newer one is not a VI I don't believe.

Little light on useful load for a twin. Cosy for larger pilots on a long trip. The newer one has FIKI, but doesn't seem to have a very effective plumbing system to distribute it evenly among the various flight surfaces according to the owner, who has spent a lot if money and effort on that system.

Engines are life limited - no overhaul allowed. And the gearboxes also have a limited life (I think it's about 600 hours on the Austro) after which they must be replaced.

Get out your check book. Like many modern planes it is expensive to maintain in accordance with the instructions.
 
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GRG55 said:
There are two of them in the hangar attached to the building where my office is. One with the original Thielert engines and one with the Austros; newer one is not a VI I don't believe.

Little light on useful load for a twin. Cosy for larger pilots on a long trip. The newer one has FIKI, but doesn't seem to have a very effective plumbing system to distribute it evenly among the various flight surfaces according to the owner, who has spent a lot if money and effort on that system.

Engines are life limited - no overhaul allowed. And the gearboxes also have a limited life (I think it's about 600 hours on the Austro) after which they must be replaced.

Get out your check book. Like many modern planes it is expensive to maintain in accordance with the instructions.
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I was referring specifically to the VI, which is the “fixed” version.
 
flyingron said:
I know a guy who has one (he's dropped in at my field a few times), and he shows his off on behalf of Diamond at some of the shows. I don't think they've sold that many in the US which is why there aren't a whole lot on the used market.

I can dig up probably Dave's email address if you want to ask him some questions.
Click to expand...

I suspect he’s asked because he’s one of so few owners, but I’d love to be wrong. That’d be great, I’d ask on the diamond forums but they only allow current owners and I’m not sure I’d get a straight answer out of a dealer.
 
John Myers said:
I was referring specifically to the VI, which is the “fixed” version.
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"Fixed" in what way? Higher useful load? More cockpit room? Engines and gearboxes that can be overhauled instead of thrown out?
 
They are selling a lot more 62s right now, and that is a great plane as well. I want to say -VI sales were in the 12 or so range for North America last year but I could be wrong.

I fly a 42 NG pretty much exclusively now, and I dream of getting a used -VI. The cruise performance difference is negligible at breathable altitudes, but the gross weight increase, and thus available weight for more things (A/C for me in the southwest in the summer, please) is the big reason to go the VI route, but not at a $300,000 premium.

I'm with you on waiting for depreciation and finding a partner. I can say the plane is just a joy to fly. The visibility is amazing, it is really efficient, and as an example of just how flexible it is: It can fly 180 kts to a 2.5 mile final, drop the gear (200kt max extension speed, the gear looks like something the navy puts on F/18s...), and pull the FADEC handles to idle, and then in come the flaps and the thing practically stops in mid air!

It makes "keep your speed up until 3 mile final" in the Charlie and Bravo terminal environments a grin inducing moment.

Oh it also climbs really well when both are turning with those turbos going. OEI handling, climb rate, and ceiling are good for a light twin.

Just a great plane and I hope many more are built, it feels kind of like "flying the future" sipping jet A with props quietly turning at a low geared rpm while the world just rolls by out the panoramic window. It has (a number of) flaws but it's a lovely creature nonetheless.
 
GRG55 said:
Faster through aerodynamic clean up of the airframe. Does not appear to address any of the items I listed.
Click to expand...

Not really the topic of this thread, but I’d encourage a little digging on the AE300 as compared to the original Theilerts, if you’re curious.
 
GRG55 said:
Faster through aerodynamic clean up of the airframe. Does not appear to address any of the items I listed.
Click to expand...
I know the Austros that pretty much all of the DA-42s out there have can be overhauled. The Thielert powered ones have either been converted to Austro, or will be.
 
ocflyer said:
They are selling a lot more 62s right now, and that is a great plane as well. I want to say -VI sales were in the 12 or so range for North America last year but I could be wrong.

I fly a 42 NG pretty much exclusively now, and I dream of getting a used -VI. The cruise performance difference is negligible at breathable altitudes, but the gross weight increase, and thus available weight for more things (A/C for me in the southwest in the summer, please) is the big reason to go the VI route, but not at a $300,000 premium.

I'm with you on waiting for depreciation and finding a partner. I can say the plane is just a joy to fly. The visibility is amazing, it is really efficient, and as an example of just how flexible it is: It can fly 180 kts to a 2.5 mile final, drop the gear (200kt max extension speed, the gear looks like something the navy puts on F/18s...), and pull the FADEC handles to idle, and then in come the flaps and the thing practically stops in mid air!

It makes "keep your speed up until 3 mile final" in the Charlie and Bravo terminal environments a grin inducing moment.

Oh it also climbs really well when both are turning with those turbos going. OEI handling, climb rate, and ceiling are good for a light twin.

Just a great plane and I hope many more are built, it feels kind of like "flying the future" sipping jet A with props quietly turning at a low geared rpm while the world just rolls by out the panoramic window. It has (a number of) flaws but it's a lovely creature nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Great insight. What are the flaws you find? I’m getting my MEL in the 100LL variant and other than a cabin that’s a bit small don’t note anything significant.
 
John Myers said:
Not really the topic of this thread, but I’d encourage a little digging on the AE300 as compared to the original Theilerts, if you’re curious.
Click to expand...

Yes I think he hasn't seen where the AE300 has a TBO... not a TBR like the continentals and old thielerts.

The 42 has gone through a lot of change and a modern VI with Austros,gfc700, useful load increase, radar, interior improvements, and build and paint quality improvement is almost like a different plane than an early (and much maligned) 1.7 litre plane with a KAP 140 (I really, really hate the KAP 140...).

First impressions are lasting impressions and Diamond definitely messed up with the original 42 in a number of ways, not the least of which was customer support...
 
GRG55 said:
Faster through aerodynamic clean up of the airframe. Does not appear to address any of the items I listed.
Click to expand...

The VI's have a significantly higher useful load. The Austro300s are TBO, Last I checked they were 1,800hrs but expect 2,500hrs. Couple that with a 18,000ft SE ceiling it is a good performer. I ran the numbers a few years back, and by the book it is very comparable to a SR22T in performance and operating cost.
 
John Myers said:
Great insight. What are the flaws you find? I’m getting my MEL in the 100LL variant and other than a cabin that’s a bit small don’t note anything significant.
Click to expand...

It's small, seats are fixed forward/back which enhances this smallness for back seat people, back seat legroom is tight.

My benchmark for 4 seater interior size is the SR22, and the Cirrus is definitely more friendly in this regard for your rear passengers. I also wish the 62 had a club seating option like the Bonanza or Baron, as there are still potential leg room issues in a (7!) Seat Diamond twin.

The comfort in general could be better. I find the newer "luxury" option interior to be an improvement but still could be better. I've crossed the USA in it and I often do 600nm legs so this is something I dwell on.

There is a tradeoff for that beautiful panorama, if is raining hard the front seat people are going to get hosed. The 62 addresses this with cessna ttx style front doors instead of a tilting canopy but you lose the amazing view and it becomes a little tunneled, so no cake and have it too on this item...

The last thing is, it's a flying computer. Generally that is great for workload reduction an ease operation, however should you find yourself AOG for something that isn't dirt simple (blown tire, etc)... the local shop on some random field is likely to be puzzled...
 
ocflyer said:
My benchmark for 4 seater interior size is the SR22, and the Cirrus is definitely more friendly in this regard for your rear passengers. I also wish the 62 had a club seating option like the Bonanza or Baron, as there are still potential leg room issues in a (7!) Seat Diamond twin.
Click to expand...

I thought this very strange as well. The US version has 7 seats and the EU version has 5. I think I'd really rather have the five ride in comfort in a club arrangement. I love Diamond aircraft and fine them a joy to fly. They're responsive without being touchy and I've not had any issues being uncomfortable even with long legs.

As for a flying computer, same could be said about most high-end new aircraft, no?
 
ocflyer said:
It's small, seats are fixed forward/back which enhances this smallness for back seat people, back seat legroom is tight.

My benchmark for 4 seater interior size is the SR22, and the Cirrus is definitely more friendly in this regard for your rear passengers. I also wish the 62 had a club seating option like the Bonanza or Baron, as there are still potential leg room issues in a (7!) Seat Diamond twin.

The comfort in general could be better. I find the newer "luxury" option interior to be an improvement but still could be better. I've crossed the USA in it and I often do 600nm legs so this is something I dwell on.

There is a tradeoff for that beautiful panorama, if is raining hard the front seat people are going to get hosed. The 62 addresses this with cessna ttx style front doors instead of a tilting canopy but you lose the amazing view and it becomes a little tunneled, so no cake and have it too on this item...

The last thing is, it's a flying computer. Generally that is great for workload reduction an ease operation, however should you find yourself AOG for something that isn't dirt simple (blown tire, etc)... the local shop on some random field is likely to be puzzled...
Click to expand...

The cabin isn’t as nice as a 22, no arguments, but the VI does close the gap a bit which is why I’m really waiting for it as nothing compares to the visibility. I like the flying computer aspect, sort of like a Tesla in that the simplicity is the result of a lot of complex tech. Hadn’t heard about the rain issue, I wonder if still present in the VI? I’m also intrigued by the double bubble canopy.

One other point for the 22 is there are so many of them, it has a very active market and member community.
 
labbadabba said:
I thought this very strange as well. The US version has 7 seats and the EU version has 5. I think I'd really rather have the five ride in comfort in a club arrangement. I love Diamond aircraft and fine them a joy to fly. They're responsive without being touchy and I've not had any issues being uncomfortable even with long legs.

As for a flying computer, same could be said about most high-end new aircraft, no?
Click to expand...

I don’t think a club would work because of the taper, the legroom, and the over wing entry. The back two seats appear to be smaller than even a bonanza, especially the headroom.
 
John Myers said:
The cabin isn’t as nice as a 22, no arguments, but the VI does close the gap a bit which is why I’m really waiting for it as nothing compares to the visibility. I like the flying computer aspect, sort of like a Tesla in that the simplicity is the result of a lot of complex tech. Hadn’t heard about the rain issue, I wonder if still present in the VI? I’m also intrigued by the double bubble canopy.

One other point for the 22 is there are so many of them, it has a very active market and member community.
Click to expand...

I should have clarified the front hinging canopy is a problem when getting in/out of the plane on the ground during a downpour, not when actually in flight.

I did have a somewhat comical situation when departing from a Midwestern airport (KMGY) after a previous night of heavy rain, where when I rotated and began to climb out I was soaked with water flying in from the front eyeball vents. This was a combination of a huge amount of sideways rain the night before pooling water in the ducts while the plane was out on the ramp, and it not draining properly out of the naca vent. This happened when departing into 400 foot ceilings IFR, a good lesson to fly the plane and not freak out and possibly get disoriented and have a loss of control incident!

I'm with you on VI vs SR22, I would take the VI every time.
 
There's now a used VI with 333 hours listed on controller for about $100,000 over new price. Confusing.
 
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