Cutest ATC clip of all time

In the other, you have a professional controller running a large and busy airliner airport, and at any moment there are a few thousand passengers in the planes which it is his responsibility to keep safe.


The controller is simply one of a team "keeping people safe."

The primary responsibility rests with each crew.
 
The controller is simply one of a team "keeping people safe."

The primary responsibility rests with each crew.

Don't be trying to inject logic and reason into this...

(>-{
 
Agreed- the controller is a member of a team responsible for keeping people safe. And at no time did the controller abdicate his responsibility. He was fully plugged in and could have (surely would have) corrected any mis-statement promptly and easily.

This is such an overblown and ridiculous situation. Presumably permission was sought and arrangements were made for a brief visit. What do you want to bet mama was standing a few feet away, ready to remove the child when the time came? Distraction? Um, right. It is a Big Distraction to let a kid say "Cleared for takeoff. Contact departure" ? If our fine ATC folk and professional pilots are so easily thrown off, they're in the wrong business.

OK, obviously this is not something that should be encouraged for every kid and every controller. There are kids who don't belong anywhere near a tower cab, and I'll bet their parents know exactly who they are. As one poster has suggested in one of his predictable leaps to logical absurdities, inviting the whole kindergarten class to come play in the tower is obviously not happening. (duh.)

But to hang these guys out to dry for this particular occurrence, one kid, one day, for just a few very well supervised and memorably thrilling minutes, is just plain stupid and vindictive. But, also totally predictable. It figures. Everybody must be kept at the lowest possible common level. No exceptions. That's the NEW American way.
 
The controller is simply one of a team "keeping people safe."

The primary responsibility rests with each crew.
And therefore ... what? What's the conclusion to be drawn from this? That it doesn't matter what a controller does?
-harry
 
And the world came to an end. Airplanes were running into each other right and left in the confusion, I suppose, and all hell broke loose in the tower.

Sky falling. Please don your bicycle helmets to avoid being struck by falling chunks of cloud.
 
In one case, you have an amateur pilot flying a tiny aircraft in sparse uncontrolled airspace with one or two passengers.

In the other, you have a professional controller running a large and busy airliner airport, and at any moment there are a few thousand passengers in the planes which it is his responsibility to keep safe.

On the recording, the controller is giving no indication that he is being negligent in his duties in the least. None whatsoever. He was doing all the real world important stuff himself.
The controller is setting everything up to move just like any other day. The only difference is when he would normally say "contact departure" at a very expected moment, he tapped the kid on the shoulder and told him to push the button and say the same words. He could have done the same thing with a tape recorder. The only difference is that the voice was actually breathing instead of electronic. If anything was mispoken or anyone had a problem he would have pushed his button, overridden the kid and it would have been routine problem solving. It wouldn't surprise me if the kid was told if anything goes wrong to go stand over by the steps and stay quiet out of everyone's way and don't touch anything.

And for those who, for some inexplicable reason, are unable to do the math, taking a kid for a ride in a skyhawk is a great way to introduce him to aviation. Letting him man the tower frequency at JFK ... not such a great way.

The kid wasn't manning the tower and in control. He wasn't really in control of anything at all. He was merely parroting what the controller would have said anyway. Everyone on frequency knew what was going on and having a good time doing normal routine stuff and getting an extra smile out of it.

When I was a kid, I learned about money from playing Monopoly, not by being given an opportunity to head up the Federal Reserve.

If that is going to be used as an example, the equivalent conditions should be established in the tower cab to equalize the two situations. IOW, put the kid on the mic and remove all trained adults from the tower environment and run the place for a full day. That was clearly not the case.


What precisely was the actual real world risk anyway that everyone is making such a big deal about? Not wishy washy thought processes. Not made up hallucinated possible scenario's. Not unrealistic media induced frenzy risks. Not even possible rules being broken - that is assuming rules are being broken which is doubtful since no one has posted up a specific or even general defined rule stating this is not allowed. What was the real world risk here that would have resulted in wreckage on the ground?

The only thing I see going on is the media and their idiotic behavior got hold of the recording and started riling everyone up just to be a donkey's rear end. Because of that, someone in gov't declared they needed a head on a platter and the FAA is forced to setup a guillotine to placate the witch hunters.

Personally I wouldn't have the slightest problem operating in an ATC environment where the controller has his kid pushing the button as long as it's obvious (like in that recording) that the controller is running the show. IMHO, this is one of the best things anyone can do for a kid nowadays. Too many kids have nothing to do and are far removed from reality. They often have no goals in life other than video games, hanging out with their bored friends and tv so they often go out and get into trouble. The few minutes being a parrot in a tower is the exact kind of thing that can take a kid with no goals and low self esteem and put him or her on a path to doing something important in life (maybe being a controller or something else more important) instead of being something like ending up on the streets as a meth addict shooting people. (extreme case but you get the point)

At this point it's a bloody witch hunt not much different than the GA witch hunt after airliners were used to knock some buildings down a while back.

Total nonevent IMNSHO.
 
That the hysteria is misplaced.
So, then, because a person's job to ensure the safety of thousands of travelers is shared with other people, therefore when he does something that diverts his attention from his duties in order to entertain his children while on the job, and some people say "he shouldn't be doing that, slap him on the wrist so he stops, and others understand not to do it", then these people are expressing hysteria?
-harry
 
So, then, because a person's job to ensure the safety of thousands of travelers is shared with other people, therefore when he does something that diverts his attention from his duties in order to entertain his children while on the job, and some people say "he shouldn't be doing that, slap him on the wrist so he stops, and others understand not to do it", then these people are expressing hysteria?
-harry

Seriously? You honestly believe that?

Sheese....
 
Monopoly money? Ha! For lesser minds than ours. When I was a kid, we played with real money. Real poker, real pennies. Real consequences for decisions good and bad. Daddy was the dealer with a hilarious patter. The pennies were from his change jar, but we got to play with them under his loose supervision. What do you know? Nobody swallowed one that I know of, nobody turned into a dissolute drunken gambling addict. (We all grew up far too cheap to gamble with our own money!) and the pennies got picked up and usually, unless Daddy said we could keep our ill-gotten-gains, returned, more or less, to Daddy's change jar for the next rainy afternoon. The Federal Reserve Board wasn't threatened in the least by our being allowed to touch real pennies. Not a single bit of sky fell back then.

I also got to go to work with my dad and develop my own film, print my own photos. Didn't he know that developer was poisonous and hypo turned your fingernails brown? Of course he did. He made sure we knew better than to drink the stuff, and handed out tongs to move the photo paper from one vat to the next. We grew in privilege as we grew in capability and responsibility. We all managed to grow up, back before there were hyperventilating nannies in charge of us all. Bet if the nannies, the lawyers, and the press had stayed out of it, everything would have been at JFK that day, too. If the kid had misbehaved at work, don't you suppose some grownup would have stepped in? But no, that would require a modicum of common sense and personal recognizance, which is, in this brave new world, not acceptable. Standardized idiocy is the new plan, dictated by bureaucrats who know better than we commoners do. Hhmph.
 
On the recording, the controller is giving no indication that he is being negligent in his duties in the least.
Just out of curiosity, if instead of his kid, he had a stripper on his lap, and she gave clearances to five aircraft, would your opinion of the matter differ? From the "logical" arguments I hear being made, it shouldn't.
What precisely was the actual real world risk anyway that everyone is making such a big deal about?
The "big deal" being made about this is simply "controllers shouldn't do this any more". I haven't heard anybody demand a Congressional investigation or that the controller be strung up by his testicles.

This appears to boil down to one camp that says "this is unprofessional", and another camp that says "it's okay". I'm not sure what the second camp is recommending, what the boundaries of that "okay" are. Can a controller bring his kid to work every day? What duties are okay to delegate to a child? Can he bring his girlfriend, instead, or is this just for children?
What was the real world risk here that would have resulted in wreckage on the ground?
Can a controller make a mistake, due to oversight, due to distraction, that results in wreckage? Has that ever happened before?
-harry
 
Well, I know a few people from this thread I would never want by my side in a dark alley. What a bunch of whiny, government teat sucking panty wastes. Yes....wastes.

You people are the ones that have been running this country into the craphole for the past 50 years, and worse yet, you've procreated, and passed your whininess and government will take care of us mentality on to your kids.
 
Wow, now much becomes clear. Somebody who sees no difference between a controller with a stripper on his lap, and a father with his little boy sitting beside him learning about what Dad does for a living. OHHH! OK, Harry, now I see your problem. I don't think it applies to ATC, but....
 
I see both sides here.

One the one hand, you've got a violation - and it's the violation with potential for serious consequences when done in the "wrong" circumstances. Aggravating the issue is that you never know when the wrong circumstances will occur. For instance, what if a plane suddenly hit a flock of birds, and when you were trying to get your kid out of your lap in the heat of the moment, you accidentally spill your bottle of water on your console, or your accidentally unplug your headset, or one of a hundred other things?

At the same time, if we look beyond the fact that a violation occurred (as in, we don't automatically jump to the death penalty every time any law is broken, simply because a law was broken), this was about as small a violation as could be.

So, the question becomes - do we base our actions solely on the fact that a violation occurred, or should we also take into account the qualititative aspects of the violation?

Obviously, I'm in favor of the latter.

But, I do understand the arguments for the former.

I'm obviously not qualified to decide which would be the better approach - but I'd hope that, in deciding, those in charge would consider which approach would yield the result that is better for aviation safety.

In my own view, I think we would all be better served by not firing this guy (or his supervisor, or whoever) - to coin our President, this seems to be a "teachable moment."

Frankly, I don't believe in firing otherwise good employees for mistakes that, if you're not an idiot, you learn from and that are that big of a deal. While there are really good arguments for this particular mistake actually being a "big deal," in the end, I don't think it's worthy of the "employment death penalty," so to speak.
 
Just out of curiosity, if instead of his kid, he had a stripper on his lap, and she gave clearances to five aircraft, would your opinion of the matter differ? From the "logical" arguments I hear being made, it shouldn't.

A stripper doing their thing is pretty much defined as a deliberate distraction from what one is doing. The behavior is about focusing attention away from the outside world. That's about the same as a hyper kid running around yanking plugs out and screaming constantly.

OTOH a kid visiting and helping out in a passive manner such as the tower if done properly, which it sounds like it was on the recording, is not a distraction. I've been on both ends of the kid helping scenario (as a kid and as the responsible adult) and as long as the kid is reasonably mature, their presence can be a total non event whether it's in a plane, in a tower or working with machine tools with no safety covers. Since the kid is there, that's an extra set of eyes that just might see something everyone else missed. In addition, anyone who teaches anything can tell you that when you're teaching or showing someone something, you have to be even more aware of what you're doing to explain it properly and keep up the same level of ability. Just ask any experienced CFI.

Can a controller bring his kid to work every day? What duties are okay to delegate to a child? Can he bring his girlfriend, instead, or is this just for children?

Every day playing babysitter would be a bit of a stretch. A kid a month in the tower for a day is IMO a non event. A kid coming up for 5 minutes as mom or dad get off shift a couple times a week probably isn't a problem either.

Can a controller make a mistake, due to oversight, due to distraction, that results in wreckage? Has that ever happened before?

So it doesn't matter whether a kid is in the tower or not?

To make the discussion even more interesting, I have a theory that states this: There are far far more tower controller induced crashes without kids in the tower than when kids are present therefore kids in the tower occasionally actually improves air safety.
 
Cute incident, nobody got hurt, made folks smile.

But, it was a lapse in judgement. Seriously, he can't do his job if he's worried about watching the kid too. It probably sounded like a fun thing to do at the time, but it was pretty stupid.

As someone else said, a teachable moment. The rules were broken. They exist to protect us. If you don't enforce them, as Ron keeps saying, then where are you going to draw the line?? The guy screwed up, as cute as the screwup may have been. However, I don't think he should be fired. Suspend him a day or two. Make sure word gets out that the next time it happens someone WILL be fired. Problem solved.

Any more these days even the least little infraction seems to bring down the wrath of God. We need to ratchet back a bit.
 
Cute incident, nobody got hurt, made folks smile.

But, it was a lapse in judgement. Seriously, he can't do his job if he's worried about watching the kid too. It probably sounded like a fun thing to do at the time, but it was pretty stupid.

As someone else said, a teachable moment. The rules were broken. They exist to protect us. If you don't enforce them, as Ron keeps saying, then where are you going to draw the line?? The guy screwed up, as cute as the screwup may have been. However, I don't think he should be fired. Suspend him a day or two. Make sure word gets out that the next time it happens someone WILL be fired. Problem solved.

Any more these days even the least little infraction seems to bring down the wrath of God. We need to ratchet back a bit.
Well said. Too much black and white these days. We need to get back to shades of gray.
 
Well said. Too much black and white these days. We need to get back to shades of gray.

Everybody knows all of the attorneys' commercials that are on these days.

My favorite was one from a guy whose last name was Grey. His phone number, displayed prominently during the whole commercial, was 1-800-GREY-LAW.

I mean, does it get any better than that?
 
Just out of curiosity, if instead of his kid, he had a stripper on his lap, and she gave clearances to five aircraft, would your opinion of the matter differ? From the "logical" arguments I hear being made, it shouldn't.

No, and no one would have none that the stripper wasn't a qualified ATC person unless she had a real high voice.

The kids voice is the problem. If the voice sounded like an adult would anyone of known what was going on?
 
Monopoly money? Ha! For lesser minds than ours. When I was a kid, we played with real money. Real poker, real pennies. Real consequences for decisions good and bad.

<snip>

Standardized idiocy is the new plan, dictated by bureaucrats who know better than we commoners do. Hhmph.

LOL, you're not that lady on the park bench tripping people with her cane, are you? :D


Trapper John
 
Not yet, Trapper. But you'd be well-advised to watch your step. Never can tell.
 
Wow, now much becomes clear. Somebody who sees no difference between a controller with a stripper on his lap, and a father with his little boy sitting beside him learning about what Dad does for a living.
My suspicion is that some of us are too blinded by "awwww, cuteness" of the event to see that this is unprofessional. If you change the "guest" from somebody cute to just, well, anybody, and that changes your opinion, then that's a sign that you're granting a cuteness exemption.

Is the situation equally applicable to a trained parrot? A ventriloquist dummy? A girl he's trying to impress?

If you were going in for brain surgery, what level of professionalism would you require for your surgeon? Would you have any qualms if the last thing you heard as you went under was "Billy, hold the drill just like this, we're going to make a big hole in her skull with it. Billy, spit out your gum! You washed your hands, right? What was that noise? Billy, did you bring your frog with you?"
-harry
 
My suspicion is that some of us are too blinded by "awwww, cuteness" of the event to see that this is unprofessional. If you change the "guest" from somebody cute to just, well, anybody, and that changes your opinion, then that's a sign that you're granting a cuteness exemption.

Is the situation equally applicable to a trained parrot? A ventriloquist dummy? A girl he's trying to impress?

If you were going in for brain surgery, what level of professionalism would you require for your surgeon? Would you have any qualms if the last thing you heard as you went under was "Billy, hold the drill just like this, we're going to make a big hole in her skull with it. Billy, spit out your gum! You washed your hands, right? What was that noise? Billy, did you bring your frog with you?"
-harry

:skeptical:
 
My suspicion is that some of us are too blinded by "awwww, cuteness" of the event to see that this is unprofessional. If you change the "guest" from somebody cute to just, well, anybody, and that changes your opinion, then that's a sign that you're granting a cuteness exemption.

Is the situation equally applicable to a trained parrot? A ventriloquist dummy? A girl he's trying to impress?

If you were going in for brain surgery, what level of professionalism would you require for your surgeon? Would you have any qualms if the last thing you heard as you went under was "Billy, hold the drill just like this, we're going to make a big hole in her skull with it. Billy, spit out your gum! You washed your hands, right? What was that noise? Billy, did you bring your frog with you?"
-harry

Harry,

As I often do, I agree with what you've written. But, what do you think the appropriate sanction would be (if any)?
 
My suspicion is that some of us are too blinded by "awwww, cuteness" of the event to see that this is unprofessional. If you change the "guest" from somebody cute to just, well, anybody, and that changes your opinion, then that's a sign that you're granting a cuteness exemption.

Is the situation equally applicable to a trained parrot? A ventriloquist dummy? A girl he's trying to impress?

If you were going in for brain surgery, what level of professionalism would you require for your surgeon? Would you have any qualms if the last thing you heard as you went under was "Billy, hold the drill just like this, we're going to make a big hole in her skull with it. Billy, spit out your gum! You washed your hands, right? What was that noise? Billy, did you bring your frog with you?"
-harry

And for those who see beyond the "aww cute" part and apply
common sense? what then?

And why do you call this "unprofessional"?
 
My kid went to work with her dad. Watched him sew up cuts, inspect sore throats, diagnose various belly aches on weekends with ER call. Nobody ever complained. She behaved herself, understanding that was what was expected if she wished to go with her dad to work, which she very much did. Our son never cared to go along, and that was fine, too. They worked in the shop together, handling tools that could have cut his arm off without any problem whatever. Our little girl simply quietly observed. She didn't hold retractors, or insert IVs, but neither did she create any sort of safety hazard or distraction by her mere presence. Like most professionals, including those of ATC employees, her dad has excellent ability to concentrate on the matters at hand, able to exclude distractions automatically. I expect a fire alarm could have gone off across the hall, and he would have completed that last stitch perfectly and stripped off his gloves before responding to it. I don't imagine that any controller worth his salt would be distracted by a little kid at his elbow watching quietly or any pilot completely discombobulated by the sound of an unexpected voice on the radio issuing a perfectly normal routine instruction.

The problem with so many busy-bodies is that they seem to be unable to distinguish between a clear and present danger and a far-fetched hypothetical danger. i.e.: a stripper sitting on a lap vs. a kid behaving himself very nicely on a special occasion, a parrot or ventriloquist's dummy vs. a sentient human being who understands the expectations and is eager to please. It's all the same to the nanny-mentalities.

Cuteness isn't a factor. A fine example of a parent proud of his bright kid and eager to share a small piece of his world, IS a factor, a thoroughly reasonable one in my mind. Careful restrictions may apply-- like having mom or other responsible and vetted adult ready to take the kid off dad's hands if necessary, like being certain that the kid is smart enough and well-behaved enough not to create a ruckus. That devolves onto personal responsibility, a concept that seems anathema to certain mindsets. What a shame.
 
But, what do you think the appropriate sanction would be (if any)?
I see punishment as something you apply to employees that are doing something they know is wrong. It is not appropriate for a first offense of a sincere difference in understanding.

I see firing as something you apply to an employee in whom you can no longer place trust.

I don't see either of those as appropriate in this situation. If this was my employee, we would be having a very long discussion about professionalism, until I was certain that he fully understood my position, and I had obtained from him an assurance that he would seek to abide by it. If there was a subsequent re-occurrence that suggested that he either simply could not fully grasp what I tried to teach him, or that he willfully chose not to, then that is an employee I cannot trust, and he should seek employment elsewhere. We're talking about high-end professional positions here, my expectations are high.

I would also use the occurrence as a suggestion that I had not properly communicated my expectations to my staff, and I would take measures to ensure that such understanding is more widely communicated, and see if we had a lapse in our training methods. As a boss, I can't blame my employees for not doing things the way I want them done, if I haven't provided sufficient guidance.

That's a generic response, of course, one that doesn't take into consideration government bureaucracy and political pressure, etc, so it's possible that my hand might be forced to take actions other than those that I consider to be appropriate.
-harry
 
And for those who see beyond the "aww cute" part and apply
common sense? what then?
I think it's common sense to understand that mixing your children in with your job is "an issue", one that requires some thought. In our society, we have that understanding. We don't expect to see children in the board room, or the operating room, or in the cockpit. We may differ in where we draw the line, but we all understand that such a line needs to be drawn.

I think we understand that where the line is drawn depends on the job. The greater the responsibility, in general, the higher the standards of professionalism we anticipate. That's all common sense.

The reason this is a story is because people applying their common sense notions about professionalism find it surprising that somebody in a serious and important job would commit such a lapse of professionalism. They're applying common sense in coming to this determination.
And why do you call this "unprofessional"?
Because part of professionalism is taking your work seriously, treating with respect the people with whom you interact, striving to perform at a high level, demonstrating a respect for what can go wrong when you fail to achieve such a high level, and setting your priorities appropriately.

This has nothing to do with being paid to do what you're doing, these are attitudes that we should strive to take with us into the cockpit of a Skyhawk as much as into our workplace.
-harry
 
That devolves onto personal responsibility, a concept that seems anathema to certain mindsets. What a shame.
In my mind, the controller's personal responsibility is toward his duty as a controller, and when he sits in that chair he needs to make that his sole focus. That's my view of responsibility.

BTW, is it absolutely necessary to devolve into name-calling and personal demonization every time somebody comes to a conclusion different from yours?
-harry
 
I see punishment as something you apply to employees that are doing something they know is wrong. It is not appropriate for a first offense of a sincere difference in understanding.

I see firing as something you apply to an employee in whom you can no longer place trust.

I don't see either of those as appropriate in this situation. If this was my employee, we would be having a very long discussion about professionalism, until I was certain that he fully understood my position, and I had obtained from him an assurance that he would seek to abide by it. If there was a subsequent re-occurrence that suggested that he either simply could not fully grasp what I tried to teach him, or that he willfully chose not to, then that is an employee I cannot trust, and he should seek employment elsewhere. We're talking about high-end professional positions here, my expectations are high.

I would also use the occurrence as a suggestion that I had not properly communicated my expectations to my staff, and I would take measures to ensure that such understanding is more widely communicated, and see if we had a lapse in our training methods. As a boss, I can't blame my employees for not doing things the way I want them done, if I haven't provided sufficient guidance.

That'e entirely reasonable, and I think that this, or something along these lines, is what most reasonable people would do.

That's a generic response, of course, one that doesn't take into consideration government bureaucracy and political pressure, etc, so it's possible that my hand might be forced to take actions other than those that I consider to be appropriate.
-harry

This does, of course, change the entire equation.
 
Not yet, Trapper. But you'd be well-advised to watch your step. Never can tell.

Grandma used to say, "Happiness is a belt-fed weapon", so I have at least a passing familiarity with that philosophy...


Trapper John
 
While the events may not have met the expectations of the airline passengers on the field that day, I say let's not blow it out of proportion.

A kid was allowed to relay instructions to highly trained adult professionals who were well qualified to know if any of the instructions were inappropriate, and the dad was in a position to immediately countermand anything inappropriate.

The FAA should just tell him not to do it again and educate the public that it was a low risk lapse in judgment that has been dealt with appropriately.
 
Because part of professionalism is taking your work seriously, treating with respect the people with whom you interact, striving to perform at a high level, demonstrating a respect for what can go wrong when you fail to achieve such a high level, and setting your priorities appropriately.

-harry

The fun police have arrived. Yeah, we should reprimand/suspend/terminate every controller who isn't the robot voice at the other end of the radio, because they wouldn't be considered taking their job seriously. All of JAX center would be released in yuour perfect zero enjoyment society. The more I read your posts, the more I think you despise anyone to have any sort of enjoyment.

Lets go through your checklist:

Did he take his job seriously? Only he can answer that, but he probably smiles at work , so no. Fire him.
Treating people with respect? Hmmmm, again, nothing in the transmissions which would indicate otherwise. Oh wait, he said Adios Amigos to Air Mexico. Yep, that's racist, uncalled for and a complete lack of respect for people.
Striving to perform at a high level? Hmmm, lets see, all transmissions were spot on except for the Adios Amigos quote. Fire him!!
Demonstrating respect...blah blah blah? There is nothing presented that shows otherwise.

Here's some advice:

1) Remove the oak tree from your ass.
2) Get a life. Some of us actually enjoy it.
 
My suspicion is that some of us are too blinded by "awwww, cuteness" of the event to see that this is unprofessional. If you change the "guest" from somebody cute to just, well, anybody, and that changes your opinion, then that's a sign that you're granting a cuteness exemption.

Is the situation equally applicable to a trained parrot? A ventriloquist dummy? A girl he's trying to impress?

If you were going in for brain surgery, what level of professionalism would you require for your surgeon? Would you have any qualms if the last thing you heard as you went under was "Billy, hold the drill just like this, we're going to make a big hole in her skull with it. Billy, spit out your gum! You washed your hands, right? What was that noise? Billy, did you bring your frog with you?"
-harry

You're out of your flipping mind. Kids are supposed to sit at home and not see what a professional environment is until what, high school when they drop out of school or college when they go wait tables? How should they have any idea whatsoever as to what they want to major in? Why do you think the #1 incoming major for college kids is "Undecided"?

How do you think kids get enough exposure to have the slighest clue what they want to do, or what they don't want to do? It is routine for surgeons to have students sitting and watching what's going on, and there's no problem to me with kids being there as well. The requirement is that the observers be well behaved. Obviously you wouldn't have a brain surgeon simply hand a student or a kid a knife and say start cutting. This is not brain surgery, this is talking. The dad gave the kid opportunities to say things which, if you listen to the continuous clip, he clearly had time to deal with. The dad was talking and handling everything when there wasn't time to coach the kid on what to say.

When I was a kid, I went to the office with friends' parents (my mom didn't work and dad was nowhere to be found), so I got to see what an office was like. I was given jobs to do that I could handle and coached accordingly. Pilots I know who've been around planes their whole lives got the bug early on when dad (or uncle, or friend, whoever) let them touch the controls for a bit. Who was in control? The adult. My uncle let me sit on his lap and steer the lawn mower when I was a kid.

This SHOULD have been a great and memorable experience for the kid, and clearly brought smiles to the faces of at least some of the pilots. Instead, it is being blown out of proportion. I would have issue if it was a guy just bringing his girlfriend in to impress her. I don't do that at my job. I would, however, bring my kid in (and that is not uncommon at my job) to show the kids what it's like and get them exposure.

I suppose this begs the question: is there room for "fun" in a job such as this?

Fun and professionalism aren't necessarily opposed. In a job such as this I would say absolutely there is room for fun, and that a positive attitude will improve safety overall.
 
I suppose this begs the question: is there room for "fun" in a job such as this?

Without a doubt. I hear it with controllers all the time. D, C, B, Tower, TRACON, Ground, Center...

The guy that pronounces it "Shah-tahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-quah 5050."
The lady who says , "Hey didn't I just hear from you."
The guy that laughs says, "No, no, no, no it's not a big reroute...."

They were definitely having fun with their job, nothing was ever compromised, and you could tell it put a smile on their (and other pilot's) faces.
 
The fun police have arrived.
There are limits to how much a person in an important job should deviate from best practices in the interest of "fun". If you want to have a lot of fun, there are lots of jobs that offer that. Air Traffic Controller is not a job in which that ranks high.
Yeah, we should reprimand/suspend/terminate every controller who isn't the robot voice at the other end of the radio...
When we're pushing a disingenuous argument, we seem to allow ourselves to ignore magnitude. When we ignore magnitude, then adding in "adios amigos" is equivalent to bringing in your kid to sit at the mike and issue clearances.

And, of course, we must necessarily take any opposing viewpoints and characterize them as extreme. If I think a controller shouldn't be entertaining guests while on duty, then I must be the fun police and against all fun and think nobody should ever have fun. I guess if I performed the same cheat, I'd be accusing you all of being clowns who never believed in ever being serious, or ever doing any work, and that life should be non-stop play-time.
The more I read your posts, the more I think you despise anyone to have any sort of enjoyment.
I guess since I think a controller should focus on controlling, I must clearly hate butterflies and unicorns.
Treating people with respect? Hmmmm, again, nothing in the transmissions which would indicate otherwise.
I think forcing a professional to have professional interaction with your child is disrespectful to him, and thus unprofessional.

(And yes, to save everybody the typing, I'm an evil satanic fun-hater who throws babies into wood chippers.)
1) Remove the oak tree from your ass.
2) Get a life. Some of us actually enjoy it.
Clearly, we have some work to do in the respect and professionalism department.
-harry
 
I think forcing a professional to have professional interaction with your child is disrespectful to him, and thus unprofessional.

-harry

You don't think. That's the problem. Did any of the pilots have a problem with the kid? Certainly doesn't sound like it. Sounds like they quite enjoyed it...and no offense to tower controllers, but seriously, during slower times its:

10 Ok, is the preceeding plane far enough away?
20 Yep: Next plane cleared for takeoff
30 Nope: Go to 10
 
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