Curious how others handled similar situations.

Pipewelder79

Pipewelder79

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Pipewelder79
Good morning all, just curious as to how others have dealt with similar situations. I should start with a little background first though.

I am a late thirties student pilot, I have finished my second solo and I am just starting my cross country training. I have always wanted to fly and have just now really got going on my way! My problem is...family. More specifically, my father. He trained in the 70's and for some reason stopped at around 40 hours, just before his check ride. I have been looking at planes to buy so that when I am done with my private I can continue to fly without having to drive an hour and a half to rent a plane. Also, I would like to do IFR and want to do it in my own plane for multiple reasons.

The other day we drove down and looked at a cherokee 235 that was an absolutely beautiful plane. On the way home he said, "Don't get mad, but I'm going to try and talk you out of buying a plane." He wasn't rude or angry about it, and I get that it's based out of fear that I will crash and die, leaving my family without a father and husband.

My question is, should I keep including him in this, or should I just not talk to him about it anymore? Any one have any similar experiences? I feel like I'm being kind of selfish in this because its scareing my family, but I also feel like he is overreacting. He does have experience so I cant just chalk it up to lack of experience.

P.S. I'm new here, just signed up and this is my first post. Sorry if i rambled on, I'm trying to keep everything concise and to the point.

Thank you.
 
But I do want to add, I would talk you out of buying a plane at this stage for other reasons. The plane you want now may not be the plane you want later after you complete your PPL. Buying and selling airplanes are a big deal. More so selling than buying.
 
Pipewelder79 said:
He wasn't rude or angry about it, and I get that it's based out of fear that I will crash and die, leaving my family without a father and husband.

My question is, should I keep including him in this, or should I just not talk to him about it anymore?

Thank you.
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Are you sure that’s his fear? Whether you own a plane or not, you’re still going to die, whether it’s an aviation related death or not.

Why don’t you just ask him straight up if he’s interested in continuing to participate in the shopping?

There can be value in having a good conversation with you Dad, but realize there’s no convincing or changing of mind that is probably going to happen so, this topic may just need to be a boundary for his input.
 
yeah, kinda hard to answer that, it's pretty much up to you. I'd be curious what your wife's father thinks about it. if he's ok with it, I'd focus on finishing training, getting some experience, and then showing your ol' man (and your wife, etc) all the steps you're taking to be the safest pilot possible. right now you don't know what those steps are, and maybe none of us know them all but that comes with experience. but you're kind of saying "eh, I took a coupl'a lessons, I'm ready to buy a plane". hard to say for sure based on the info you provided, but maybe your dad is saying "no you're not". just my $.02 which aint even worth that much.
 
The whole Nike approach is how I have kind of been handling it, I realize it's my decision and I have made it. I would love to have ol' dad on my side during all this and I know I wont change his mind on anything. I just assumed it was the crashing part that he was worried about. Seems the obvious answer. Probably should just ask but serious conversations have never been our strong suit.
 
My wife's father died when she was young. Honestly her side of the family has been pretty supportive. Maybe I am jumping the gun a little here and that's what hes trying to say. I'll make it a point to have a more serious conversation with him and find out his side if the story a little more. Hes not generally the type to interfere so maybe I should reach out a little more.

Thanks everyone for the input, an outside perspective can be all we need sometimes.
 
eman1200 said:
yeah, kinda hard to answer that, it's pretty much up to you. I'd be curious what your wife's father thinks about it. if he's ok with it, I'd focus on finishing training, getting some experience, and then showing your ol' man (and your wife, etc) all the steps you're taking to be the safest pilot possible. right now you don't know what those steps are, and maybe none of us know them all but that comes with experience. but you're kind of saying "eh, I took a coupl'a lessons, I'm ready to buy a plane". hard to say for sure based on the info you provided, but maybe your dad is saying "no you're not". just my $.02 which aint even worth that much.
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Yeah I tried not to go overboard with the personal back story and still get the point across. I debated whether or not to even say anything cause it's hard to explain family stuff that has a much deeper background that cant be explained in a forum post!
 
SkyDog58 said:
You mentioned that you are in your late thirties.

Isn’t it long past time to stop worrying if daddy approves of what you do or not?
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It has less to do with approval and more to do with respect. I have made the decision to learn to fly knowing that he would rather I didn't. However I still feel that I should respect his opinion in the matter, even if I don't agree.
 
Pipewelder79 said:
I'm new here
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Welcome!!

Pipewelder79 said:
I feel like I'm being kind of selfish in this because its scareing my family, but I also feel like he is overreacting.
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Not selfish at all, if you can fly safely, proficiently, legally, and responsibly, then have at it. Don't let anyone stop you. Incidentally, this is a big part of the reason that many people end up purchasing Cirrus, it is because their families are scared and they (non flying public) like the idea of there being a parachute
 
Pipewelder79 said:
Good morning all, just curious as to how others have dealt with similar situations. I should start with a little background first though.

I am a late thirties student pilot, I have finished my second solo and I am just starting my cross country training. I have always wanted to fly and have just now really got going on my way! My problem is...family. More specifically, my father. He trained in the 70's and for some reason stopped at around 40 hours, just before his check ride. I have been looking at planes to buy so that when I am done with my private I can continue to fly without having to drive an hour and a half to rent a plane. Also, I would like to do IFR and want to do it in my own plane for multiple reasons.

The other day we drove down and looked at a cherokee 235 that was an absolutely beautiful plane. On the way home he said, "Don't get mad, but I'm going to try and talk you out of buying a plane." He wasn't rude or angry about it, and I get that it's based out of fear that I will crash and die, leaving my family without a father and husband.

My question is, should I keep including him in this, or should I just not talk to him about it anymore? Any one have any similar experiences? I feel like I'm being kind of selfish in this because its scareing my family, but I also feel like he is overreacting. He does have experience so I cant just chalk it up to lack of experience.

P.S. I'm new here, just signed up and this is my first post. Sorry if i rambled on, I'm trying to keep everything concise and to the point.

Thank you.
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The fear is based on a lack of knowledge on the subject, go get your plane and do your thing, they will become more educated as they are around it more.
 
Tantalum said:
Welcome!!


Not selfish at all, if you can fly safely, proficiently, legally, and responsibly, then have at it. Don't let anyone stop you. Incidentally, this is a big part of the reason that many people end up purchasing Cirrus, it is because their families are scared and they (non flying public) like the idea of there being a parachute
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Yeah I've looked at cirrus, they are beautiful planes and the school I train at has one. I talked to the wife about it too, she seemed to like the idea!
 
TCABM said:
Are you sure that’s his fear? Whether you own a plane or not, you’re still going to die, whether it’s an aviation related death or not.

Why don’t you just ask him straight up if he’s interested in continuing to participate in the shopping?

There can be value in having a good conversation with you Dad, but realize there’s no convincing or changing of mind that is probably going to happen so, this topic may just need to be a boundary for his input.
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I wonder this too...my first thought was it has something to do with finances, or maybe he thinks the OP won't stick with it and quit like he did, etc.
 
Pipewelder79 said:
Yeah I've looked at cirrus, they are beautiful planes and the school I train at has one. I talked to the wife about it too, she seemed to like the idea!
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First off welcome!

Second off you really need to decide what your "mission" (as we like to call it) is for your plane. While a Cirrus is a great travelling plane for 2-3 people, you need to decide what you'll be doing with the plane. This usually doesn't develop until after you have your license.

For example: 500nm trips just you and your wife? Cirrus all the way.

Long trips over water: Multi-engine airplane i.e Cessna 310 is probably a safer option

Any interest in plane camping? You'll need a backcountry airplane, Cessna 182/180/206 or a Maule.

Or are you just interested in going up and enjoying aviation in its purest form? Piper Cub, Cessna 120/140.

Want to fly upside down and do aerobatics? Citabria, or pitts etc.

General aviation has endless niches and you don't want to commit to a huge purchase before you're certain where you'd like to be. Of course some planes like a Cherokee 235 can do almost everything okay, but it won't excel at anything.
 
Got to talk it out with him. His concern may be financial, your time away from family, etc. It may not even be his opinion; might be your wife or mother trying to use him as proxy for their concerns because they think you'll respect his opinion more than theirs.

You said he stopped training right before his checkride in the 70s "for some reason." That sounds like a good conversation starter right there. Why?
 
My mom thinks I'm going to die in a crash someday.
I'm not sure where it comes from, but I did take her flying once (only once!), and I thought the flight was just fine, but she clearly thought it was terrifying.
I was a PP at the time without all that many hours; in retrospect I should have waited until I was more experienced, or just not extended the offer at all.
I've learned that we're both happier if I just don't talk about flying, avoid that topic. Especially don't tell crazy flying stories. ;)
But she knows me well enough to know that this is something I'm passionate about, so she's not going to try to stop me.

Now, the fact that your father got 40 hours into his pilot training (and so knows a thing or two about airplanes!), suggests that the issue for him is something different than for my mom (a non-aviator). Is he the kind of guy with whom a conversation about this is likely to stay "rational"? If so, have the chat! Good luck!
 
Mtns2Skies said:
First off welcome!

Second off you really need to decide what your "mission" (as we like to call it) is for your plane. While a Cirrus is a great travelling plane for 2-3 people, you need to decide what you'll be doing with the plane. This usually doesn't develop until after you have your license.

For example: 500nm trips just you and your wife? Cirrus all the way.

Long trips over water: Multi-engine airplane i.e Cessna 310 is probably a safer option

Any interest in plane camping? You'll need a backcountry airplane, Cessna 182/180/206 or a Maule.

Or are you just interested in going up and enjoying aviation in its purest form? Piper Cub, Cessna 120/140.

Want to fly upside down and do aerobatics? Citabria, or pitts etc.

General aviation has endless niches and you don't want to commit to a huge purchase before you're certain where you'd like to be. Of course some planes like a Cherokee 235 can do almost everything okay, but it won't excel at anything.
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That's a lot of good information right there and I've come to the conclusion that I want all of those things!! But seriously, my mission is liable to be mainly just me flying within 200 miles, maybe some longer vacation stuff with the family but I will definitely be waiting till I have more hours and experience before loading them up.
 
Haven't bought a plane yet, but something similar happened when I started looking at houses. Dad said you should avoid buying a house, he had bought one and built one. I think both times he got burned somehow. Luckily he lives in another state, so I just stopped talking to him about it. He really likes the house I own, so guess I didn't do too bad. He did the same thing to my mom, told her buying a house was not a sound thing to do and she would just lose money.
 
kath said:
My mom thinks I'm going to die in a crash someday.
I'm not sure where it comes from, but I did take her flying once (only once!), and I thought the flight was just fine, but she clearly thought it was terrifying.
I was a PP at the time without all that many hours; in retrospect I should have waited until I was more experienced, or just not extended the offer at all.
I've learned that we're both happier if I just don't talk about flying, avoid that topic. Especially don't tell crazy flying stories. ;)
But she knows me well enough to know that this is something I'm passionate about, so she's not going to try to stop me.

Now, the fact that your father got 40 hours into his pilot training (and so knows a thing or two about airplanes!), suggests that the issue for him is something different than for my mom (a non-aviator). Is he the kind of guy with whom a conversation about this is likely to stay "rational"? If so, have the chat! Good luck!
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Yeah, we are definately gonna have to have a longer conversation. I don't want to try and sell him on it though cause I know that'll never work!

Thanks everyone for the replies, I've never posted on a forum before and to see such a large response so quickly is very encouraging!!
 
kath said:
Now, the fact that your father got 40 hours into his pilot training (and so knows a thing or two about airplanes!), suggests that the issue for him is something different than for my mom (a non-aviator). Is he the kind of guy with whom a conversation about this is likely to stay "rational"? If so, have the chat! Good luck!
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Maybe something in training scared him. Been trying to get my mom into a plane for three years now. My wife said that flying with me was less scary than commercial, we even had a bit of turbulence and a decent crosswind landing go add to the excitement. My son who is afraid of everything (a car could rev on the other side of a parking lot and he'll cry) was in the back shouting "whee" and "I want to do a flip." o_O
 
Van Johnston said:
Got to talk it out with him. His concern may be financial, your time away from family, etc. It may not even be his opinion; might be your wife or mother trying to use him as proxy for their concerns because they think you'll respect his opinion more than theirs.

You said he stopped training right before his checkride in the 70s "for some reason." That sounds like a good conversation starter right there. Why?
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Mom said he had some friends die in an accident. That's one of the reasons I haven't brought it up to him as to why, didnt want to open old wounds but it may need to be done anyways.
 
Pipewelder79 said:
Mom said he had some friends die in an accident. That's one of the reasons I haven't brought it up to him as to why, didnt want to open old wounds but it may need to be done anyways.
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Had a friend die of a heart attack on a softball field. He was 25. Hasn't stopped me from playing softball.
 
My dad is a good guy, and my family has supported my aviation stuff despite their own private fears (I'm sure). That said, I know some dads know their kids from a perspective their kids don't see. Sometimes your dad just knows your personality better than you do having watched you grow up from a young kid. If deep in your heart you think that's true, then ask yourself what it is he's worried about. If not, don't worry about his worries and make good decisions!
 
I just dealt with this, not exact but very similiar. I bought a Cessna 140 last week. My mom and dad were opposed, and correct at 39 I didn't need their blessing but still nice to have, that respect thing I guess. My dad thought it a foolish expense as I'm already in a flying club, "why do you want your own it will be more expensive" mainly. I put it in a perspective for him, "Pops, the club plane is an hour drive away, I never fly for fun anymore because of that, and miss it, you golf almost daily in the summer, the course is 3 miles from home, would you golf as much if you had to drive an hour? Do you rent clubs or have a set of your own?" He came around. My mom said, "Shouldn't you finish your house remodeling or buy a nicer one first if you can afford this?" I explained to her my perspective, my house keeps me warm and dry and I would rather have my modest home and my own plane than a house on the hill and no plane, my house being awesome doesn't do much for me- having my own bird does!" I got it home last week, she loved it and asked if we could use it to go see my brother when weather gets nicer and shes now looking forward to the adventure of her and I setting off on our own flying across the country- she's 83 and I'm so happy shes excited about her and I doing an adventure. If his approval is important to you, talk it through with him.

On picking out a plane, as others have said consider your mission. By no means am I saying mine is the right way to go, but follow this thinking for a minute and then think of the different options that fit you: I've been in a club for 8 years, its a beautiful 172 with 180hp so it actually can take 4 ppl! IFR equipped (I'm not and have little interest-but there if I want/need to train IFR), purchase of the 1/12th share was a whopping $3,000 and dues are a killer at $60/month ;) and we rent it to ourselves for $85 wet tach hour (very different than the hobbs hour if you don't fly her fire-walled on X-country). My problem was the distance to her, which you referenced as a concern, so fun flying never happened after a while-I understand that concern of yours and its real. I decided a basic 2 seater would fit 90%+ of my missions, even with kids-they are older and to get everyone not busy on a day is rare! So to "re-build" the frequency of my flying a $20,000 airplane that drinks 5 gal/hr if you are pushing her is perfect for me. Plus now I get to learn to fly without the training wheel! :) I purposefully sought out the least equipped basic set-up even amongst 140's I could find. I have no gyros, vor's, etc. So as far as planes go she will, in theory, be inexpensive to maintain at least compared to a faster more "capable" bird- but to go get pancakes on Saturday morning fly ins-what more could I want!? The 172 needed some upgrades and the radios pooped this fall- $32,000 bill, my share was $1200 as we had a fair amount saved from the rent-not too bad if you ask me. If you won't be flying IFR a bunch why pay fully for the maintenance of all those extra gizmos and such is my thinking. My little 140 will teach me to truly fly the plane and become part of it as I don't have fancy gadgets to help me nor a nose-wheel to smooth over lackluster rudder skills. BUT if I need to do a family trip, or going somewhere where I want all the fancy gadgetry, a 20 minute hop in the 140 and I can be to the 172... And I will fly the 172 better from putting in the hours in a plane that doesn't "help" me much... So for $23,000 I have two airplanes at my disposal and one that is beyond capable of anything I need and one thats fun and cheap to fly.

So there are many ways to skin a cat, look at multiple options-argue with yourself just to make sure you are thinking all the different angles. Another reason I chose the 140 was operating cost, not just maintenance costs, the local airport manager told me from watching guys over the decades that ppl often sell their first basic plane that they flew the **** out of and "upgrade" and when a hop for pancakes costs $250 in fuel, even those that can truly afford it, start to fly a bit less, then even less and often come to only fly now and again. He said find the plane that fits your mission that will cost you the least to go out flying and you will fly more...

Again, I don't mean that story as, "This is how you should do it", I mean it as think it through, argue with yourself, check out different and multiple options. We are trained in the cockpit to not get fixated on one thing, we should all do the same when considering buying a cockpit... Best of luck! You will figure it out...
 
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Pipewelder79 said:
Mom said he had some friends die in an accident. That's one of the reasons I haven't brought it up to him as to why, didnt want to open old wounds but it may need to be done anyways.
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Ah, ok, now we're getting somewhere. Unless there's some more serious baggage between you two you're not divulging, I would say it is worth the risk of opening up the wound. Sounds like it's been 40 years. Also sounds like he may be the stoic type who may have kept a lot bottled up all these years, and may value to the opportunity to release. Good luck.
 
Pipewelder79 said:
Yeah I've looked at cirrus, they are beautiful planes and the school I train at has one. I talked to the wife about it too, she seemed to like the idea
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big reason my wife liked it is because she always had this fear that I would become incapacitated somehow and she be stuck there alone. Since we're always either on an IFR plan or flight following I told her to just pull the red handle up top, pull the red handle by the throttle, and then press the button on the joystick and just ask for help
 
stop wondering & ask why, then decide
 
Just an observation: Your dad stopped around 40 hours before his Check ride... Me Thinks he's the one who might be scared. I think you'll find that many, if not all pilots fly with a bit of healthy apprehension. Especially when carrying family and friends along. But there is a point where the fear becomes irrational fear, and that might be what you are dealing with....
 
Tantalum said:
big reason my wife liked it is because she always had this fear that I would become incapacitated somehow and she be stuck there alone. Since we're always either on an IFR plan or flight following I told her to just pull the red handle up top, pull the red handle by the throttle, and then press the button on the joystick and just ask for help
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Shouldn’t it be pull the red knob next to the blue thing first and then the red handle on top? Donno the procedure, just asking.
 
When I bought mine my dad was 100% sure I was going to fall out of the sky, and I am pretty sure he still thinks that way. Few months back he was here and I gave him a ride. He has always been a i am on the isle seat kinda guy but thoroughly enjoyed the ride. The only thing he doesn’t like about my plane is 1 engine.

Find out what your dad is scared of.

PS: last Saturday I sent him a text saying that I am thinking of building one and fly in it. I haven’t gotten a response yet
 
WannFly said:
Shouldn’t it be pull the red knob next to the blue thing first and then the red handle on top? Donno the procedure, just asking.
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Luckily we have no blue thing lol. Just a throttle and mixture, and the only other red handles are for the fuel and parachute.

When it comes to passengers and what to do if I become incapacitated, then I used to teach shutting the engine first and then pulling the parachute (in the same order you describe), but I was told different by at least two owners and a CSIP.. that if someone is panicking and forgets everything else they have a higher chance of surviving with a running engine and deployed parachute than vice versa.. IE, no running engine and no parachute

This makes me wonder now if a Cirri has ever landed with a running engine and deployed parachute...
 
had the same deal with a bike, no bike my way or the highway so i bought & hit & the road jack,

earlier said no football in high school or scuba diving lessons & did both anyways on the sly
 
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Ryanb said:
The chicks dig a guy with an airplane. Nuff said.
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I used to think that was the case.. I pictured myself in some Howard Hughes or James Bond demeanor... but the people I've told I'm a pilot thing you either fly for an airline or generally aren't that interested. Every now and then someone will think it's cool. Or maybe I've just been watching too much ATC meme lol
 
Tantalum said:
I used to think that was the case.. I pictured myself in some Howard Hughes or James Bond demeanor... but the people I've told I'm a pilot thing you either fly for an airline or generally aren't that interested. Every now and then someone will think it's cool. Or maybe I've just been watching too much ATC meme lol
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I find more people than not initially say "thats cool" but once I realize I'm into a 15 minute ground school lecture in response to "That's cool" and they have the deer in the headlights look, I realize I've again gone too far in my how awesome flying is monologue. I always tell myself to not do this, but I do it every time and only realize it when its too late! LOL.

Back when I was single I didn't find it attracted the ladies in the least, in general anyway...
 
Huckster79 said:
I find more people than not initially say "thats cool" but once I realize I'm into a 15 minute ground school lecture in response to "That's cool" and they have the deer in the headlights look, I realize I've again gone too far in my how awesome flying is monologue. I always tell myself to not do this, but I do it every time and only realize it when its too late! LOL.
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Epic. And I thought I was the only one to do this. Someone says "is it hard to land?" and next thing you know you're talking about the proper flaring technique! When all they were expecting was you to say "yes! it's F'ing crazy!"

Huckster79 said:
Back when I was single I didn't find it attracted the ladies in the least, in general anyway...
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It depends on the lady. I was out drinking with some friends a few weeks ago and one of the women there asked us how we all knew other.. I automatically dipped my head and said "here we go".. after some initial jokes about meeting on Grinder we got into flying. She thought it was cool at first, but that quickly abated!
 
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