Curious about this
- Thread starter Gilbert Buettner
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I mean...I think that depends what they're using the library for...
GaryM
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Gary M
That argument is getting into reductio ad absurdum territory. Enforcement would require checking all departing aircraft with more than 1 person aboard to make sure no one is a CFI, lest they provide instruction somewhere else.
This is silly.
A contract cannot be violated by someone who is not a party to the contract.
Gilbert Buettner
Line Up and Wait
Winning an argument.
dtuuri
Final Approach
I would guess that before anybody signed an FBO lease agreement with the city, they'd have had a lot to say about the terms and probably expected this sort of activity would not be allowed unless their own investment in ramp space, hangar space and other facilities is at least matched by the competitor. Paved square footage of parking areas and mandatory hours of operation are too costly to allow somebody to come in and skim off their few chances to pay for them. That said, an aircraft owner is probably allowed to engage the CFI or mechanic of their own choosing. Heck, even provide their own fuel. Just not run a business. The contract is probably publicly available and discussion in the City Council minutes too.
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3G
You can fight with a mule over a turnip and likely be more successful.
As a public-funds receiving airport:
1) There is nothing, nada, they can do about transient instruction, other than barring flight instruction from happening within the physical building owned or leased by the FBO.
2) Reasonable business licensing and insurance requirements are permitted, but need to be consistent with those imposed on other businesses based in that locale and non-discriminatory.
I know our airport manager spent a lot of time developing commercial operations rules that are interpreted as "fair" by the vast majority of the airport users. See here for our airport's policies: https://www.cityoffullerton.com/government/departments/airport/commercial-operations
1) There is nothing, nada, they can do about transient instruction, other than barring flight instruction from happening within the physical building owned or leased by the FBO.
2) Reasonable business licensing and insurance requirements are permitted, but need to be consistent with those imposed on other businesses based in that locale and non-discriminatory.
I know our airport manager spent a lot of time developing commercial operations rules that are interpreted as "fair" by the vast majority of the airport users. See here for our airport's policies: https://www.cityoffullerton.com/government/departments/airport/commercial-operations
dtuuri
Final Approach
This does not, in anyway, impact instructors when the flight training is not originating from our airport. It says that clearly in the first sentence.
It is over-reach to claim that training inside the aircraft of a private citizen is prohibited just because it happens to be on their ramp. It is over-reach to claim that I cannot hire an independent instructor to go with me on a flight if I'm departing from that airport.
As @Half Fast said, if I as an aircraft owner and my independent instructor are not parties to the contract, we cannot be held to it.
As @Half Fast said, if I as an aircraft owner and my independent instructor are not parties to the contract, we cannot be held to it.
It looks like they're trying to prevent an independent CFI from using the airport as a base of business operations, which might be reasonable, but I'm not sure they could enforce it. Just because somebody writes something down doesn't mean it will hold up. They have no prohibition about a student getting instruction in the student's own airplane from an independent CFI. I assume that final statement overrides the first one:
There's no way they can tell an owner who can or can't ride in the owner's plane (or even find out, for that matter), nor what they do in flight.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
I have been instructing for several decades and numerous airports. I have never been asked not to instruct the owner of an aircraft based at the airport or while on a flight school flight to another airport. It’s really a common courtesy thing.
ebetancourt
Line Up and Wait
A local airport, KMBT, about thirty years ago, had this taken to court. First, they signed an exclusive agreement with an FBO flight school. Then, they were asked to lease space to another flight school. They said no, #1 has exclusive rights. #2 went to the FAA, and they said to the city, you took public funds, you must. So, they did. #1 sued, got a huge settlement from the city, and retired. This is all from memory and a long time ago.